[Football] Managing the Game

Littlemo · Sunday at 9:33 AM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Today constantly pointing at his watch the bad wanker offered nothing to the game, he allowed an awful team and manager to dictate. 4 mins added on for the first half was a total joke.

People complained when they started adding on what they deemed as too much additional time “10 mins, where did that come from? Players will end up getting injureddddddd”

The bottom line is that fans (and actually often pundits/commentators too) are never happy with what a ref does and every team in every game complains about them. I had a look at the Arsenal forum and they are moaning that the refs hate them and have a conspiracy against them

It’s at the point where it’s just noise now. Half of us don’t even know the rules correctly and moan about refs not applying rules that got changed 5 seasons ago. If you are at the level of moaning about a player not getting carded or not enough minutes getting added on, well next week we’ll be moaning that someone gets 10mins to score an equalizer!

banjo · Sunday at 9:38 AM

I take it as a compliment, shows how far we’ve come if Arsenal are trying to waste time after 16 minutes. Nearly backfired for them, if Mitoma was 6”7’ and managed to poke that chance in late on.

Littlemo · Sunday at 9:39 AM

banjo said:
I take it as a compliment, shows how far we’ve come if Arsenal are trying to waste time after 16 minutes. Nearly backfired for them, if Mitoma was 6”7’ and managed to poke that chance in late on.

I would but they do it with every game and team

PILTDOWN MAN · Sunday at 9:47 AM

Littlemo said:
People complained when they started adding on what they deemed as too much additional time “10 mins, where did that come from? Players will end up getting injureddddddd”

The bottom line is that fans (and actually often pundits/commentators too) are never happy with what a ref does and every team in every game complains about them. I had a look at the Arsenal forum and they are moaning that the refs hate them and have a conspiracy against them

It’s at the point where it’s just noise now. Half of us don’t even know the rules correctly and moan about refs not applying rules that got changed 5 seasons ago. If you are at the level of moaning about a player not getting carded or not enough minutes getting added on, well next week we’ll be moaning that someone gets 10mins to score an equalizer!

You prove your own point as they are laws not rules.

however it’s not about adding time but allowing the wasting in the first place. It’s so simple to enforce. Allowing a team to dictate the game such as yesterday is totally unacceptable and is the fault of the ref.

Nicksinclair13 · Sunday at 9:54 AM

I don’t normally mind it too much and you can see when Joel gets plaudits on here for his ‘dark arts’ it’s probably something we should utilise more.

But last night did take the absoloute mick and I think there should be a consequence for it. I don’t think yellows work at all and I wouldn’t want to see anyone red carded for taking a bit too long for a corner. I like the idea of giving an immediate action that favours the other team.

I.e you take too long for a throw and it goes to the other team. Nwaniari’s corner in the first half would be returned to the keeper for a goal kick. Taking too long for a goal kick results in a corner for the opposition. Messing about with a free kick means it goes back the other way etc.

I can’t see how this wouldn’t solve the issue pretty much immediately. There is no way Raya is going to hold the ball for 10-15-20+ seconds in the dying minutes of a game if that is going to result in the other team getting a corner.

Me and my Monkey · Sunday at 10:10 AM

I wonder what happened to the "delaying the restart of play" rule that was (pretty brutally) enforced in our favour at the Emirates earlier this season? Maybe my eyes were deceiving me, but I'm sure there was a moment when we had clearly been awarded a corner and their keeper picked up the ball, trotted all the way back to his goal with it before slowly rolling it back in the vague direction of the corner.

I went to this game fearful that we were going to get a good hiding from a far superior team, but was shocked to discover they are simply a team full of tricks and dubious "tactics". I no longer have any respect for them, and they deserve to win nothing.

tedebear · Sunday at 10:23 AM

Eeyore said:
The one occasion when he persistently pointed at his watch did end up as a yellow for the corner kicker. It was very niggly game with lots of annoying fouls that broke up play. That's not the ref's fault. Games like that happen. As I said, a the direction of the analysis seems to be about decisions perceived to affect us only. Unsurprisingly, Arsenal fans are moaning about how the ref went against them.

Sorry I disagree. Yes he penalised one time wasting, but there were at least 3 or 4 more which should have had the same treatment.

When clubs are ALL moaning about the refereeing, doesn't it stand to reason that the entire standard isn't good enough?

Littlemo · Sunday at 10:24 AM

PILTDOWN MAN said:
You prove your own point as they are laws not rules.

however it’s not about adding time but allowing the wasting in the first place. It’s so simple to enforce. Allowing a team to dictate the game such as yesterday is totally unacceptable and is the fault of the ref.

Refs don’t have any tools to do it beyond yellow cards and they will be criticised if they are booking the majority of players on a team (or both teams!), especially if it leads to red cards (look at the outcry when the ref sent off Rice against us).

I do wish we’d stop making refs responsible for the behaviour of players. They are there to enforce the laws, not to make players change their behaviour or to change the culture of the way teams play or football in general. There is only so much they can do.

Littlemo · Sunday at 10:29 AM

tedebear said:
When clubs are ALL moaning about the refereeing, doesn't it stand to reason that the entire standard isn't good enough?

I don’t think it does. Clubs and fans have simply got into the habit of blaming the refs to hide behind their own poor play, and excuse their own faults.

Arsenal is a perfect example tbh, moaning about the pen being given and refs being against them but if they had been more positive and actually tried they probably would have won the game.

South Stand Bonfire · Sunday at 10:34 AM

trueblue said:
I agree. The ref did add time on as he kept indicating he would, but that doesn't compensate for the constant disruption to the flow of the game. Makes it difficult for a team chasing a lead to set a more urgent tempo.

In the first half I estimated 2 minutes for Arsenal’s obligatory goal celebration (same as last season) as far away from the centre spot as possible, 2 minutes for their goalkeeper’s “injury” and at least 3/4 minutes time wasting. But only 4 minutes were added on to the first half

tedebear · Sunday at 10:41 AM

Littlemo said:
I don’t think it does. Clubs and fans have simply got into the habit of blaming the refs to hide behind their own poor play, and excuse their own faults.

Arsenal is a perfect example tbh, moaning about the pen being given and refs being against them but if they had been more positive and actually tried they probably would have won the game.

Hmm not sure I agree entirely...

I agree when a player stuffs up its easy to blame the ref, but thats not really the issue I'm referring to...The inconsistency of the application of rules from referees is the complaint I see the most from all clubs. Yes there are a lot of subjective calls that need to be made, and those will always be contentious and create discussion. Like the penalty. But timewasting, playing the ball from a spot ten feet away, shirt pulling, walking up the sideline 20ft before throwing in, diving (and miraculously being well 5 seconds later), some of the more simple fouls being called in one instance and then 2 minutes later the other way not being called...

Not enforcing simple rules, is actually perpetuating the rule breaking is my thoughts...

Shropshire Seagull · Sunday at 11:01 AM

Crying out for a 10 minute sin-bin.
Trouble is time wasting is subjective but it is spoiling the game.

Change from 45 to 30 mins each way, ball in play, big digital clock at each end with new official timekeeper role.

zefarelly · Sunday at 11:12 AM

tedebear said:
Sorry I disagree. Yes he penalised one time wasting, but there were at least 3 or 4 more which should have had the same treatment.

When clubs are ALL moaning about the refereeing, doesn't it stand to reason that the entire standard isn't good enough?

Yes, yes it does.

However I can't help feeling that if a ref or two started working to the rules they'd get black listed. THey're controlled from above to be the pantomime villain in the interests of entertainment for TV. The purity of sport is long gone.

Littlemo · Sunday at 12:14 PM

tedebear said:
Hmm not sure I agree entirely...

I agree when a player stuffs up its easy to blame the ref, but thats not really the issue I'm referring to...The inconsistency of the application of rules from referees is the complaint I see the most from all clubs. Yes there are a lot of subjective calls that need to be made, and those will always be contentious and create discussion. Like the penalty. But timewasting, playing the ball from a spot ten feet away, shirt pulling, walking up the sideline 20ft before throwing in, diving (and miraculously being well 5 seconds later), some of the more simple fouls being called in one instance and then 2 minutes later the other way not being called...

Not enforcing simple rules, is actually perpetuating the rule breaking is my thoughts...

What do you want them to do though? If they booked everyone for all of that we’d have no players left on the pitch. We have to recognise that ref punishment alone isn’t a viable way to change the culture in the game.

LamieRobertson · Sunday at 12:22 PM

I think we are being a bit unfair…if you had a new watch for Xmas you'd want to show it off to as many people as you could

tedebear · Sunday at 12:28 PM

Littlemo said:
What do you want them to do though? If they booked everyone for all of that we’d have no players left on the pitch. We have to recognise that ref punishment alone isn’t a viable way to change the culture in the game.

So how do you change it then?

GT49er · Sunday at 12:29 PM

Shropshire Seagull said:
Crying out for a 10 minute sin-bin.
Trouble is time wasting is subjective but it is spoiling the game.

Change from 45 to 30 mins each way, ball in play, big digital clock at each end with new official timekeeper role.

This, this, this, this, this!

HeaviestTed · Sunday at 12:30 PM

banjo said:
I take it as a compliment, shows how far we’ve come if Arsenal are trying to waste time after 16 minutes. Nearly backfired for them, if Mitoma was 6”7’ and managed to poke that chance in late on.

Or had inspector gadgets go go gadget extendable legs, although I don’t think they are actually that practical.

TugWilson · Sunday at 1:14 PM

The OP is spot on , i have some great memories of refs that run a game properly such as : when the ref has told the wall several times to stay back and when they encroached again he took out his yellow card and booked the entire line . Or when a player is time wasting with a free kick warn him once and if ignored reward it to the opposition , same with stealing too much ground in a throw in . Games like last night are ruined by sides that cheat and bad reffing .

Littlemo · Sunday at 1:15 PM

tedebear said:
So how do you change it then?

Well someone suggested for throws that if not taken quickly enough (they could agree a time) then the throw goes the other way.

I also wonder if the FA could do something retrospectively I.e if total stoppages for a team in a game go over a certain limit then they could be warned, then increasing punishment from there (fines, even points deduction if they really don’t stop after many many warnings).

One of Arsenal’s time wasting tactics was taking ages celebrating goals, you again could agree a limit on celebrations and then just kick off again whether they are ready or not.

Most of these need changes in the laws but actually what is more important, is that fans and ESPECIALLY commentators and pundits, need to get onside with this stuff. Most of the hardline stuff refs try at the start of the year falls by the wayside because of the general media, fans and teams crying about it and that influencing everyone else.

Until everyone actually wants to see proper change, not just changes for others but not for us, then nothing will change.

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[Football] Managing the Game

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