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[Albion] What are we? Weak, Cowards, Comfortable, Arrogant, Flaky, Spineless or Fragile?

What are we? Weak, Cowards, Comfortable, Arrogant, Flaky, Spinless or Fragile?

  • Weak

    Votes: 12 7.1%
  • Arrogant

    Votes: 12 7.1%
  • Fragile

    Votes: 41 24.3%
  • Comfortable

    Votes: 6 3.6%
  • Spineless

    Votes: 6 3.6%
  • Flaky

    Votes: 14 8.3%
  • Immature

    Votes: 33 19.5%
  • All of the above

    Votes: 41 24.3%
  • Unlucky

    Votes: 4 2.4%

  • Total voters
    169


US Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
4,813
Cleveland, OH
So I have two thoughts about the last game, which are connected, but might both be total BS.

First, I wonder if Fab isn't tinkering where he doesn't need to? The first goal against us caused him to panic and bring on more defensive cover in the form of Igor. It makes sense to bring on a defender to defend a lead, but we'd been pretty solid up to that point and any time you bring on a sub you risk upsetting the balance of the team. So you have to weigh the benefits of bringing on another defender against the risk of changing tactics and confusing everybody at a vital point of the game. If we'd been backs to the wall just hanging on, it probably makes sense, but we weren't doing that, just that one breach aside, Leicester hadn't looked like scoring. So changing tactics and bringing on a sub with just a few minutes left to play seems like an unnecessary gamble. He should have "trusted the process" and have faith that one mistake aside, the defensive setup he'd started with was still up to the job.

Second, I wonder about Igor's communication. We don't see a whole lot of him in the videos the Albion puts out, so it makes me think he's English skills aren't great. Certainly not fluent. This doesn't have to be a problem, they don't put out many videos with Mitoma speaking much either. But I do wonder if Igor, and this isn't in anyway meant to suggest anything about his intelligence, is understanding less of the instructions he's given than both him, and the coaching staff realize. You might remember that one game, I think it was a friendly, when Igor was handed the captains armband late in the game and put it on. Which had many of us wondering why on Earth you'd make Igor, who'd only recently joined the team, the captain? I genuinely think that might have been a miscommunication. He was handed the arm band with the instruction to pass it on to somebody else, didn't quite understand, so he put in on himself. What does this have to do with yesterday's game? When you send a sub on, the coach will generally brief them on what they want him to do and also what instructions to pass on to the rest of the team. I wonder if Igor got that, but failed to pass on the instructions completely, or maybe at all. When you see Igor dribbling the ball and looking lost before losing it for the second goal, I wonder if it wasn't because Igor expected his team mates to be in different positions, since the tactical switch, but that hadn't been passed on. He had one idea of what was supposed to be happening, but the other players didn't get the message. So there was confusion about who was supposed to be where and doing what.

Hopefully these problems will become less of an issue as the players get to understand Fabian's tactics a bit better, and maybe Fabian learns to "trust the process" himself.
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,634
Vilamoura, Portugal
He didn’t make a mistake imo…..Igor did. Manager can’t legislate for a player brain-fart
Yes, but we conceded 2 goals not just the one Igor gave away. Bringing on a CB and going to a back 3 doesn't seem to work for us and it's not what the top managers do to close out games. They put an extra CM/DM on. I no longer have any confidence in a Brighton back 3.
As to the poll, I voted fragile. We shatter like glass when they get a goal back.
 


Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
356
Attwell was the ref. Already sent him off once for nothing and seems to have an agenda against us.
Also possibly part of Baleba's development - silly yellow cards are a learning curve and he didn't learn at Muff?
 


slartibartfast

Active member
Sep 11, 2004
343
Henfield
Ive literally seen somebody blame Hurzeler for poor game management because:
v Wolves he let the players bomb forward for that 4 on 1 break , when he should have asked them to tighten up... AND
v Leicester he brought on Igor to tighten things up when he should have left things as they were.

Which is it? Both?
 


Milano

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2012
4,037
Sussex but not by the sea
Also possibly part of Baleba's development - silly yellow cards are a learning curve and he didn't learn at Muff?
Nah, he's a kid. Football (any elite sport) is an emotional game, it's split second stuff, I'd bet waving that pretend card wasn't a 100% conscious decision. It becomes about muscle memory and composure, both improve with experience. It's why younger players in any sport make more 'silly' mistakes than the more experienced players.
 




dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
56,055
Burgess Hill
Yes, but we conceded 2 goals not just the one Igor gave away. Bringing on a CB and going to a back 3 doesn't seem to work for us and it's not what the top managers do to close out games. They put an extra CM/DM on. I no longer have any confidence in a Brighton back 3.
As to the poll, I voted fragile. We shatter like glass when they get a goal back.
It's not a back 3. It's a back 4 or 5 out of possession
 




Algernon

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2012
3,240
Newmarket.
When you see Igor dribbling the ball and looking lost before losing it for the second goal, I wonder if it wasn't because Igor expected his team mates to be in different positions, since the tactical switch, but that hadn't been passed on. He had one idea of what was supposed to be happening, but the other players didn't get the message. So there was confusion about who was supposed to be where and doing what.
Football is far more fluid than that.
Player A is never certain that when he has the ball he can turn to Player B 100% in a specific place on the pitch.
Igor done messed up, he turned in toward multiple opposition players, couldn't find a pass to someone in a yellow shirt even though there were 4 or 5 around him. He had the whole of the opposite side of the pitch to boot the ball into but decided he would try and pass the ball back to someone over his right shoulder (which would have been cut out anyhow before reaching a BHA player) and lost the ball.
Purely that.
The silly sausage.
The rest is recent history.
 




Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,374
Yes, but we conceded 2 goals not just the one Igor gave away. Bringing on a CB and going to a back 3 doesn't seem to work for us and it's not what the top managers do to close out games. They put an extra CM/DM on. I no longer have any confidence in a Brighton back 3.
As to the poll, I voted fragile. We shatter like glass when they get a goal back.
Leicester got very lucky for their first goal. Bobby DR tried a shot, which was partly blocked by Mitoma. It looped over our defence and fell perfectly for Vardy. There was no other way that they were going to get the ball to him. It was the same with Cunha v Wolves. There was no way he was going to score until it deflected off JPVH and looped over Verbruggen. Same with Arsenal for their goal. Saka was under pressure from Dunk and turned away from the ball. It hit him on the back, looped over our defenders straight into the path of Havertz. Again, no way would Saka have found him without that fluke. O'Riley knew nothing about the corner at Fulham, his vision was obscured and it hit him on the back and flew in.
All game changing moments that needed a bit of luck. I'm sure we may have had the odd one or two this season but at the moment, it feels like the run of the ball is slightly against us. It may change, it may not. I don't agree in fragility. Leicester got a big stroke of luck ( sure...Vardy took advantage ) and that gave them fresh momentum. They had also had two extra days rest. We had the Thurs/Sun syndrome and a little bit of fatigue may have crept in. No excuses for Igor's mistake. Pure overplaying when the ball should have been miles downfield or in row z.
We are in transition. Brand new manager to the PL. He is finding his feet and experimenting. We have only lost three games out of fifteen. He doesn't know his best eleven yet. Judge him later on this season when loanees have gone out in Jan and we may have a couple more faces in. To be even where we are is a surprise and a testament to the potential of this man. It will get better.
 


macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,240
six feet beneath the moon
So that's what you took from my post ;-) How was he at fault for Southampton's goal, we had a few goes at blocking/clearing it. Again no small part at Fulham - how was that a hospital pass and if it was why didn't Bart stick it in Row Z? I think you'll find it was Estupinan who was defending Salah's goal at Anfield.
Still if you are hell bent on having Igor as the scapegoat ;-)
he totally misses the tackle on dibling before the goal and then southampton were in behind (igor getting sucked in, missing a challenge and then getting left behind, out of position, is a frequent theme if you watch him for any length of time). the pass back to verbruggen was atrocious and left him in an awful position, yes obviously bart should’ve just hoofed it but the situation never even exists if igor passes it properly in the first place. and as for the liverpool goal yes estupinan is defending, defending against one of the best wingers in the world, and where is the centre back who should be helping him? nowhere to be seen, miles up the field, out of position having missed yet another tackle and jogging back fairly nonchalantly. you can call that scapegoating if you’d like, i know it’s everyone’s favourite phrase on here along with ‘bed wetting’, but as I see it, it’s simply pointing out that he’s a player who repeatedly makes mistakes. and FYI saying a player isn’t as good as people have been saying he is isn’t me being ‘hell bent’ on having him as a scapegoat, but whatever
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
7,656
Wiltshire
For me, on Leicester's first goal,Van Hecke(getting sucked toward the ball) leaves Vardy free with a vague hand gesture hoping someone else is going to pick him up. When the ball dropped to Vardy there was even another Leicester player behind him,with Minteh about 8 yards behind.
I know there was a deflection that didn't do us any favours, but we need to defend better than that if we want to see out a game.
 




GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
148
Europe
What are we? An exciting project; a work in progress, with all the ups and downs that this entails.

I would describe our squad of (mostly) young, talented, raw players as inconsistent - which is to be expected given our circumstances.

Individual results this season have ranged from bloody brilliant to gut-wrenchingly disappointing. It's anything but predictable and so far I'm enjoying the ride.

PS: I trust Tony.

:albion2:UTA!
 




Balders

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2013
356
he totally misses the tackle on dibling before the goal and then southampton were in behind (igor getting sucked in, missing a challenge and then getting left behind, out of position, is a frequent theme if you watch him for any length of time). the pass back to verbruggen was atrocious and left him in an awful position, yes obviously bart should’ve just hoofed it but the situation never even exists if igor passes it properly in the first place. and as for the liverpool goal yes estupinan is defending, defending against one of the best wingers in the world, and where is the centre back who should be helping him? nowhere to be seen, miles up the field, out of position having missed yet another tackle and jogging back fairly nonchalantly. you can call that scapegoating if you’d like, i know it’s everyone’s favourite phrase on here along with ‘bed wetting’, but as I see it, it’s simply pointing out that he’s a player who repeatedly makes mistakes. and FYI saying a player isn’t as good as people have been saying he is isn’t me being ‘hell bent’ on having him as a scapegoat, but whatever
I'm not saying that the mistake yesterday wasn't down to Igor, it was, but your other examples are tenuous to say the least, with other players equally or if not more culpable for those goals, but for some reason you seem to want to single out Igor - strange imho..... probably because it suits your agenda/narrative.
 








el punal

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2012
12,606
The dull part of the south coast
Our mentality is unforgivable.

2-1 V Forest at home. We aren’t ruthless enough to get the third or hold onto our lead. Yes Forest are alright but good teams with character get 3 points with 15 minutes to go or win it in the last 10 minutes V 10 men
2-0 up V Wolves at home until 88 minutes. Draw 2-2.
1-0 up V Liverpool and lose it in 3 minutes (a bit harsh I know but 2 goals in 3 minutes)
1-0 up at home to utter dogshit Southampton. 1-1 and could have lost.
2-0 up away to Leicester until 86 minutes. Bart plays a shit ball into the middle of the pitch. We don’t keep it, five players don’t pick up one of theirs and we know the rest….

We have a wonderful opportunity this season. Our rivals (Newcastle, Villa, Spurs) not able to strengthen because of FFP, yet we can and spend £200m. City could get docked points. West Ham are shit. We have the players to get CL imo. Yet we are throwing it away.

I think we do this because of a mentality that has long been at the club to an extent but seems more prevalent now. From a position of strength, we don’t push on, we believe our own press as well. All the Talksport, podcast interviews, Buzz’s bootroom bolllocks (I know this is just to get subscribers etc) with Dunk lauding it at the side. Barber and Weir getting plaudits on podcats and interviews, Hurzelar giving shirts to Andy Goldstein in an interview.

Lads – you can’t beat Southampton, Wolves, Leicester when in front. No divine right of course but do you job and win the games. Concentrate on that. When Dunk was complaining the otehr night about a foul, it concerned me. Fulham would have scored from the next corner proabably. We lost that because of us. Take resposonsibility. We gave away the corner etc.

Yes, we’re in the top 10 but we could have so much more. Teams with smaller budgets and squads could finish above us – Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham. Fair play to them – they get the maximum from their players. It looks like they ahve stronger and better football managers sadly. Hurzelar doesn’t seem to have the gravitas needed and the players are all too comfortable.

Obviously the position the club is in is incredible and I am proud to support the Albion (some of you will think that I don’t from what I’ve written) but I appreciated the mental strength of previous teams (right back to Hereford, the Withdean) and the 16/17 team who didn’t fold like a piece of paper.

Or maybe we’re not very good – our wins could be viewed as fortuitous as well. Last minute V Utd, battered at Newcastle yet win, City were completely done in the second half. Anyway, there are ways to drop points but the way we have this season is completely unforgivable. They don't deserve an owner or supporters like they get.
I understand your sentiments and it is very frustrating. I, too, was extremely pissed off that we threw the game away in the last few minutes along with the other 2,999 Albion fans. We have also got to remember that we have a young and inexperienced (in the main) team with a coach who is experiencing his first season in the Premier League. We are seventh in the league and just three points off Man City in fourth place.

No one would have predicted that we would be this high in the table by mid December at the start of the campaign. So let’s cut the boys some slack here. They’ve made mistakes, they’ve shown immaturity and, being positive here, will learn and improve. Perhaps it’s us fans that need to remember this before we start condemning all and sundry.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,690
When we have a wobble the super fans gather on the hill patronising the rest and talking utter bollocks.
Our manager made the same mistake against Wolves and didn’t learn from it. I’m not sure what we are holding out for with this guy so it had better be worth it.

I understand your sentiments and it is very frustrating. I, too, was extremely pissed off that we threw the game away in the last few minutes along with the other 2,999 Albion fans. We have also got to remember that we have a young and inexperienced (in the main) team with a coach who is experiencing his first season in the Premier League. We are seventh in the league and just three points off Man City in fourth place.

No one would have predicted that we would be this high in the table by mid December at the start of the campaign. So let’s cut the boys some slack here. They’ve made mistakes, they’ve shown immaturity and, being positive here, will learn and improve. Perhaps it’s us fans that need to remember this before we start condemning all and sundry.
That's all good, but there were no lessons learnt about game management from a very similar debacle v Wolves a few weeks earlier. That's what rankles. It's amateur hour and don't let any arrogant prat tell you otherwise
 




macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,240
six feet beneath the moon
I'm not saying that the mistake yesterday wasn't down to Igor, it was, but your other examples are tenuous to say the least, with other players equally or if not more culpable for those goals, but for some reason you seem to want to single out Igor - strange imho..... probably because it suits your agenda/narrative.
i ‘singled’ him out because your original post said he’d been great and i disagree with that. any number of players can play a part in conceding a goal, unfortunately igor’s name seems to crop up more than nearly everybody else, other defenders included. that is the extent of any ‘agenda/narrative’: stating something i believe to be true. it doesn’t suit me whatsoever for an albion player to play badly.
 


Right Brain Ronnie

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2023
744
North of North
This. Igor clears it, we see the game out and FH gets plaudits for 'game management' :shrug:
It's unfortunate but I have never seen him as part of our defence, I know many liked his name, but i was unable to see his level of football, I don't care if they are called Mark Lawrenson, but I do want the person to play like lawrenson.
 


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