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[News] Is Britain work shy ?



H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,922
Commander said:
Because adversity builds you and prepares you for life. Having to do shit things means you appreciate it properly when you don't have to do shit things anymore. And enables you to deal with shit things when they inevitably come along again.

Young people might look at something and say that looks shit I'm not doing that, because they see people on Instagram earning millions from taking photos of themselves. But just because a job looks shit now, it will lead to other things if you do it well. And the journey to success is as much about the journey as it is the end goal. And I think that is what people have lost sight of- winning the lottery sounds great, but most of those people end up unfulfilled (and often skint) if it happens too early.

I really believe that is a massive part of the problem, the 'I want instant success' attitude that social media brings. I can totally see why a 16 year old would think stacking shelves at Sainsbury's for £7 an hour is a crap job, and it is. But I have a mate that did that at 16 and is now a Director of Sainsbury's in his 30's with a massive house and seems to spend half his life in the Caribbean. I've had young people quit my company after 6 months (who were actually doing really well) because they 'weren't seeing any success'. 6 f***ing months!! We seem to have lost all patience as a nation, and that is part of the problem.
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Agree that short-termism is contributing to the problem. That is global though, a consequence of not only social media but all kinds of media. Faster music, faster cuts and story development in movies, faster video games with faster rewards... and since our brains are affected by what we feed it, there's consequences.

Each day there's more data on how to make people addicted to video games and whatnot so every day the opportunity to tie people to a bunch of micro transactions (time or money) to get quick rewards (a new axe in your video game and a good feeling in the hunter-gathered part of the brain).

Of course all the kids know things doesn't work like that in reality, it isn't The Sims where you build a life in a day. Some parts of the brain will however completely ignore what the kids know or don't know. Working for £7 an hour at a crap job might seem reasonable to them - but a complete nightmare to their nervous systems that just want instant pleasure and reward.
 






H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,922
Guinness Boy said:
And yet your whole raison d’etre relies on services, IT and capitalism.

Here you are on a site supported by an IT infrastructure using a device supported by IT technicians writing about a game that sells tickets via a website, services at a ground, information on an app and you probably stream games using dark side economy tech.

The second football goes from people paying to play to people being paid to play it’s professional and needs support services. Especially if the owner is someone really clever who gets ahead by collecting and analysing data.
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Yes, I enjoy the abundance like everyone else? I'm a sinner, not a vegetarian monk eat sallad and living without belongings.

But that doesn't mean that everyone is motivated to create abundance every day.

As much as I enjoy starting my computer and turning it off, I see little benefit for the sake of humanity to sit and answer phone calls telling people to turn their computer on and off. Even if you and others might do, or might be strong enough to motivate yourself doing that for 8 hours per day, it can not be assumed that everyone is able to push themselves to that.

How to help those demotivated people who requires other motivations than some others do is surely the main question. People have told the unemployed that they are bad and lazy people for at least 50 years, but unfortunately this has not led to any decrease in unemployment.

Now unemployment is on the rise and it could be time to scrap the whole "if we tell the young ones that they are bad and lazy, it will certainly help them a lot" thing that hasn't been working and replacing it with "how do we motivate and give hope to these people?"
 


Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
765
Han Solo said:
This is a very common phenomenon and a bit messed up.

"I worked endless hours with no payment and I want the same for young people today."

I get the pride and the strength that comes from accomplishing it but why would you want that when you know that most of the big employeers today make billions and pay shit? Is that really how it should be?

Maybe everyone under 25 isn't a bad, lazy human being. Maybe the job market just sucks arse, a rat race to the bottom. You being proud of what you did and what you do is one thing (and something I think you should be), but you why do you want it for others?
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That’s not what I’m saying and sometimes I think you yourself have to be trying to misunderstand.

My statements were replies to statements you made that were simply not true.

My point is that it cost me the same amount of labour to rent a bedsit in my home town in the 1980’s at the age of 16 that it would cost someone the same age now.

If we are talking about people that don’t want to work 16 hours a week to pay for accommodation then I’m not sure we are setting the bar correctly.

If I was 16 now I would do exactly the same thing again … maybe it is infinitely harder and I would find life infinitely more difficult but I believe I can graft my way out of any situation


However I do accept that we don’t agree and your view of the world is different to mine. 👍
 
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The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2016
26,401
West is BEST
Weststander said:
Now you’re talking hours, I totally agree with you. The people who occupied the workplace for long hours were playing the presenteeism game. Those who who had focus on leaving on time and having a life, were focused.
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This.

If you can’t get your workload done in the normal hours, you need to look at your time management.
 




Titanic

Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,963
West Sussex
S.T.U cgull said:
This is an attitude I can only despair at..

The cheapest property to rent in Burgess Hill pcm is £1,150 a month. Six years ago when I was renting, it was £780…

Add council tax (100 pcm), Food bills (200 pcm) utilities (150) thats £1,600 a month before you factor in phone/internet ; travel costs; money to spend on yourself..
Living like a hermit you still need to net out £2,200 a month just to standstill, for a one bed flat in mid-sussex.

Gross that up… you need to be on an income of approaching £40k just to rent a property. Average UK salary for a 20-29yr old, £25k..

It is categorically not entitlement, it is despondency and a lack of meaningful opportunity to progress careers / earnings at pace for many.
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All of that and a punitive education debt / higher tax rate. It really is a gloomy prospect.
 


BBassic

BBassic

I changed this.
Jul 28, 2011
13,202
Interesting discussion, pleasantly surprised it hasn't devolved into "damn kids these days and their music television" type stuff.

I'm in a bit of a midway point in many ways. Approaching my 40s, I left education at 17 having decided Uni wasn't going to be for me. Went out and got a crappy office job answering phones and doing some data input because that was what my parents said I had to do. If I wasn't going to be learning then I had to be earning.

And I've done that ever since. Put the hours in, progressed my career. For someone with a smattering of GCSE's and 2 AS Levels I've done quite well. Mortgaged up and all that.

But I'm not happy. Far from it. The thought of working for another 30 years makes me want to throw myself off a f***ing building. It's not life. It's not living. It's surviving.

But what choice do we have?

I'd argue young people aren't work-shy; they've just cottoned on to the horrible joke of it all much faster than I did.
 


stewart12

stewart12

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2019
1,949
I'm currently in an "in between job" phase having left a very toxic job in October. I decided to take a Christmas temp job at John Lewis working in the stockroom just while I work out what to do next. It's very out of my comfort zone and I haven't worked in retail for 20 ish years

What I will say is that they've employed plenty of young people who are doing the same- just left college or uni and getting some money in or doing weekend work while at college. Without fail they are polite, hard working, able to take initiative etc. I also have teenage nieces and nephews who have all worked from the age that they were able to

To be honest a lot of the generalisations aimed at young people, which older generations seem obsessed with doing, are quite wide of the mark from my experience- there's plenty of hard working youngsters about
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,707
Faversham


Biscuit

Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,330
Brighton
Han Solo said:
Surely median wage is more interesting? Average wages are almost always inflated by the top 1% to the point that they don't really represent the economy of the average person.

I agree it would be genuinely interesting though so now I've got some researching to do today. Hopefully can find global numbers. Will return!
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Yes, median would be much better - statistics is not a strong suit for me :D
 








Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
63,026
The Fatherland


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
63,026
The Fatherland




S.T.U cgull

S.T.U cgull

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2009
497
HILLLLLLL
Titanic said:
All of that and a punitive education debt / higher tax rate. It really is a gloomy prospect.
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For a fair portion of my early 20s I kicked myself for not taking up university offers in hand and taking on a starting role of £13k and sharing a shitty flat with a mate. Looking back it was 100% the right call given the student debt implications and the degree I would have done not likely to lead to a higher paying career.

As it stands today, navigating effective 60% tax banding @ loss of personal allowance etc. Don’t expect any violins but even at that income level it has an impact when purchasing a family home with Mrs which needs a big mortgage. If it is challenging for me now to do that, then god help those with those education debts or smaller incomes..
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,707
Gods country fortnightly
Hate to say it but from my experience of hiring people, many but by no means all millennials seem to be and they have a sense of entitlement.

They want flexibility and perks from day 1
 


D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,680
BadFish said:
With the introduction of robots and now Ai we should surely be looking at a way where people could work less.

It seems to me that there are not only lots of people who are not working but also lots of people who are working more than they should or would like.

Of course it would take a shift away from the rampant uncontrolled capitalism that we all mindlessly accept as the norm and into a different way of thinking.

Of course those with access to methods of power are well cared for by the current system and do not want change. I have not read the thread but I have no doubt those at the bottom for which the system does not care for are copping most of the blame (as foreshadowed by the thread title).

Personally I love my job, despite a few frustrations.
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My working life started on 36 hours per week, aged 21.
My father's, 44 hours per week, age 16.
My grandfather, 60 hours per week, age 13.
My great-grandfather, 72 hours per week, age 8.

The current system has been reducing hours worked very well indeed.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
19,771
Hurst Green
Han Solo said:
Yes, I enjoy the abundance like everyone else? I'm a sinner, not a vegetarian monk eat sallad and living without belongings.

But that doesn't mean that everyone is motivated to create abundance every day.

As much as I enjoy starting my computer and turning it off, I see little benefit for the sake of humanity to sit and answer phone calls telling people to turn their computer on and off. Even if you and others might do, or might be strong enough to motivate yourself doing that for 8 hours per day, it can not be assumed that everyone is able to push themselves to that.

How to help those demotivated people who requires other motivations than some others do is surely the main question. People have told the unemployed that they are bad and lazy people for at least 50 years, but unfortunately this has not led to any decrease in unemployment.

Now unemployment is on the rise and it could be time to scrap the whole "if we tell the young ones that they are bad and lazy, it will certainly help them a lot" thing that hasn't been working and replacing it with "how do we motivate and give hope to these people?"
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In your posts you've blamed everything apart from yourself. Please tell me what would motivate you, what do you believe your career will benefit? How would the value of your work be evaluated?
 






Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
765
Chicken Run said:
You wait till u have recruit Gen Z’s you’ll be lucky if they turn up!!
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nicko31 said:
Hate to say it but from my experience of hiring people, many but by no means all millennials seem to be and they have a sense of entitlement.

They want flexibility and perks from day 1
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I started all my kids working for the family business in year9 followed by working for local businesses owned by friends when they were 16. I’m talking shop work, cafe work, restaurant work and bar work at 18

I taught them - BE EARLY every single shift, TURN UP for work every single shift, DO NOT EVER phone in sick because you don’t want to work … in fact don’t phone in sick if you have a cough or a cold or a headache. Always Turn Up and you will immediately be in the top 10% of employees your age no matter what your levels of skill or ability.

Part of the same lecture was to first learn your job, then learn every one else’s job at your level and make sure the boss knows they can call you in at short notice when someone doesn’t turn up for work - because that is guaranteed to happen.
 
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