[News] Is Britain work shy ?

HillBarnTillIDie said:

Agree with you fully… but that was the same circumstance I saw growing up, as did my mates. Everyone had a hard time.

We moved out our house to my grandparents for a while so the house could be rented out to cover the mortgage.
We never went on a holidays abroad, or had takeaways, cable tv….
People we knew sold possession to keep above the water (cash converters got massively popular) or rented items (TVs you put 50p in to watch)
We saw this as motivation to make something of our lifes.

Expectation of a-lot of the young are to high, wanting the big bucks, probably from seeing influencers 24/7. Many also want things instantly and that must be difficult to handle.

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beorhthelm said:

quite a lot of guff. some mental gymnastics to pretend physical goods are useful and worthwhile, while service goods are not, it's just common room ponderings to justify an outlook that the world owes you, something more should be done for you. and contradictory, the physical products in China aren't worthwhile, but are when made local. anyway, the opening line really says it all: yes, some people have become workshy, they've changed their moral code towards working.

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Herr Tubthumper said:

I expect a lot of the young think to themselves f*** that. This might be motivating to you and @PILTDOWN MAN , but grinding yourself into the ground isn’t for all….I’d hazard a guess and say most.

I genuinely think most people are proud and want to make something of their lives and look after those around them, but when the hope and inspiration starts to dissipate so does the enthusiasm.

I respect what you, and especially @PILTDOWN MAN man have done, but many would crack, not bother or think f*** this. I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong, more that to begin to affect change we need to try and understand…I’m not sure everyone does.

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BadFish said:

At least when we were younger you knew that if you busted your jump your could afford a house, holiday and car.

Not sure what that looks like to our youth, especially those that see people working full time and still visiting the food bank.

There is enough money about and enough automation to not need everyone working full time. With a bit of reorgansation we could easily have people working 4 day weeks and shorter hours.

There would be a few less billionaires and tax dodging Clarkson types but personally I could live with that.

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PILTDOWN MAN said:

So yes I was one of those that bought my first place aged 18. Worked a bit and then bang all was rosy, f*** you youngsters. Or the truth.....

I had two jobs, working 12 hours shifts as an aircraft engineer followed by 4 hours at a pub. My flat had a mattress, a deck chair and an old TV. After three years my flat was worth £16,000 less than I paid for it, my mortgage was higher than the wage I had as an engineer.

It was f***ing hard work with very little reward. These days the youngsters NEED all their comforts aren't prepared to go without, do what is needed to get ahead. I agree housing costs are an issue but so are expectations.

Far too easy to moan and do f*** all.

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Herr Tubthumper said:

I don’t think @Han Solo was saying this? More than you can see the benefit to yourself, those around you and the country as a whole, if there is something tangible at the end.

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beorhthelm said:

seem to me to be say there nothing worthwhile in medical research, or keeping the internet servers running, serving a worker their beer at the end of day. on other hand, standing at a station on a production line stamping out some metal doobry for 8 hrs is worthwhile and you can see the contribution this has to society. i doubt younger people think an awful lot about the tangible output of one job over another, it's more about the earning your money. when you do give it some thought, someone wants the thing or service, someone is paying for it so they must value it.

the essay was trying to justify subverting the tradition of working for your living, claiming there's only value in industrial work, and with no industrial work to do, young people dont want to work. if he found a factory job there'd be some reason why it wasn't suitable. i did it for a bit and it was mindnumbing dull, i didn't think about the value of the product to society, i thought about how do I not have to do this shit.

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bluenitsuj said:

Agree. Too much entitlement these days.

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Han Solo said:

This is a very common phenomenon and a bit messed up.

"I worked endless hours with no payment and I want the same for young people today."

I get the pride and the strength that comes from accomplishing it but why would you want that when you know that most of the big employeers today make billions and pay shit? Is that really how it should be?

Maybe everyone under 25 isn't a bad, lazy human being. Maybe the job market just sucks arse, a rat race to the bottom. You being proud of what you did and what you do is one thing (and something I think you should be), but you why do you want it for others?

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

To be fair to @Leekbrookgull he is simply reporting the narrative on the radio.

The comment about it being easier to get a (new) job if you have one was made by a caller. No idea if the caller was correct. But it seemed to work for my son.

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beorhthelm said:

seem to me to be say there nothing worthwhile in medical research, or keeping the internet servers running, serving a worker their beer at the end of day. on other hand, standing at a station on a production line stamping out some metal doobry for 8 hrs is worthwhile and you can see the contribution this has to society. i doubt younger people think an awful lot about the tangible output of one job over another, it's more about the earning your money. when you do give it some thought, someone wants the thing or service, someone is paying for it so they must value it.

the essay was trying to justify subverting the tradition of working for your living, claiming there's only value in industrial work, and with no industrial work to do, young people dont want to work. if he found a factory job there'd be some reason why it wasn't suitable. i did it for a bit and it was mindnumbing dull, i didn't think about the value of the product to society, i thought about how do I not have to do this shit.

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sussex_guy2k2 said:

Possibly. But I’ve worked across a fair number of sectors and “hard work = rewards” is not my experience, nor is it what I’ve seen others experience. For my personally, I’ve only started really progressing when I stopped caring, and stopped working longer hours, and ultimately prioritised myself.

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Weststander said:

Now you’re talking hours, I totally agree with you. The people who occupied the workplace for long hours were playing the presenteeism game. Those who who had focus on leaving on time and having a life, were focused.

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BadFish said:

At least when we were younger you knew that if you busted your jump your could afford a house, holiday and car.

Not sure what that looks like to our youth, especially those that see people working full time and still visiting the food bank.

There is enough money about and enough automation to not need everyone working full time. With a bit of reorgansation we could easily have people working 4 day weeks and shorter hours.

There would be a few less billionaires and tax dodging Clarkson types but personally I could live with that.

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Han Solo said:

Easy to forget when discussing these things also a massive change that has happened in the last 50 years that changes the "moral code of working" and this changes the sense of achievement.

In industrial society, most people either harvested resources or worked in factories producing stuff out of resources.

Everything counted. When you went into that mine, you improved your country (and your own situation). When you fed the workers that did it, likewise. When your factory either built something that was used domestically or exported, it improved your country.

Service society isn't like that. The average new job is to produce things that don't exist in the physical reality to people who have no use of what they're buying and it only benefits a group of foreign American, Chinese or Qatarian men who you will never meet in reality.

The idea that working means "improving society" is a relic from days long behind. The average occupation in 2024 is wizardry. "Administration". "Customer service". "IT services". Common jobs outside of wizardry includes creating a gigantic Chinese produced junkyard of abundance, universally recognised as the largest threat to humanity.

Kids know this shit.

They know everything is fake.

In fact, a lot of them - through hearing about crypto - also know that the money is fake. The current ones have even seen it with their own eyes:
Throughout their entire lives, they get to hear about various crises due to underfunding of society. A lack of money to build houses and bla bla. They also get to hear about how important it is to work, because it is valuable to society.

Then covid comes and 80% of their parents are told to go home and masturbate for the next six months because in reality no one needs them. The money that didn't exist to create their future is suddenly created out of thin air to help bank, companies and people pay the rents as they sit at home.

To us who are 30+ maybe it doesn't impact the lens in which we see society all that much, but to most younger people it must have created a mindfuck. "What is this shit?", "Whats the point?", "Is anything real?".

This was sort of a Pandora's box experience to them. Once you get to the point where you ask yourself "what is the point of sitting around for eight hours telling people to restart their computer?" you're in the deep shit. Asking these existential questions may have been romanticised by suicidal poets and bearded batshit crazy hermits, but they harm people. Both living with those thoughts and the escape routes from those thoughts are often non-compatible with inspiration.

The two different way forwards is, I guess, either to literally force people to work or create a society where people spend more time drinking tea and less time on wizardy and pollution. I'm strongly in favour of the latter.

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