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[News] Is Britain work shy ?



S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,330
One of the best lessons I learned early in my career is that it’s not about how hard you work. In fact, “working hard” in the historical sense is generally detrimental to you and you alone. Working hard generally leads to you doing more work and having more stress for the same money, whilst your boss takes home more for doing less.

We’re a country that’s about who you know, and in some situations, what you know.

Work smarter, not harder.
 




El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
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Jul 5, 2003
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Leekbrookgull said:
Plenty today regarding the thread title and apparently 9.5 million out of education, looking for work, training etc. Maybe others will see it differently but as one caller described on R5 if you are in work then moving around the employment market is so much easier and as some have said you won't get the job you always want so take a job and press on. Your thoughts.
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Can’t be arsed replying to this
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
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PILTDOWN MAN said:
Nothing. I don't own one.

I owned five businesses Employed over 20 people. I set up two new businesses and unfortunately my wife was involved in a serious incident which left her in hospital for a year. I had 5 children, with three different schools to drop off and pick up each day, my wife was 45 miles away in hospital. The two businesses failed taking my home with them. I ended up caring for my wife until my daughter was able to do it. I was basically skint though never went bankrupt. Indeed I paid off all the debts as I was able to return to work. Been in private rented ever since. My wife died three years ago. I have since had four operations which led my company to "paying me off" having had 2/3 pay in that time. I'm now self employed just about putting food on the table. I work f***ing hard, I used my pension fund to start my business so will likely be working until I drop.

Could say I've been unfortunate and looking for sympathy, I'm not. If my current business doesn't work out I'll find a job. Never claimed a penny apart from caring for my wife.
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You sound like a warrior. Massive admiration.

And very best wishes for the next phase of your life.

:bowdown:
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

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El Presidente said:
Can’t be arsed replying to this
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To be fair to @Leekbrookgull he is simply reporting the narrative on the radio.

The comment about it being easier to get a (new) job if you have one was made by a caller. No idea if the caller was correct. But it seemed to work for my son.
 


Weststander

Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
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sussex_guy2k2 said:
One of the best lessons I learned early in my career is that it’s not about how hard you work. In fact, “working hard” in the historical sense is generally detrimental to you and you alone. Working hard generally leads to you doing more work and having more stress for the same money, whilst your boss takes home more for doing less.

We’re a country that’s about who you know, and in some situations, what you know.

Work smarter, not harder.
Click to expand...

Dependent on the sector?

I’ve seen the hard workers in the professions rewarded with promotions, pay hikes, eventually becoming bosses or then succeeding when going it alone.
 




mile oak

mile oak

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
978
I know a few ppl from LA area never done a days work in their lives. Never will. They aint bothered. They appear to be doing allright for themselves and unless you wanna go 10 rounds with them you dont ask any question (why). Some ppl are very resourceful. Who am I to judge them.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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PILTDOWN MAN said:
1984 I was on £52 per week as an apprentice and £12 per night working behind a bar. My apprentice pay went up £10 per week each year.
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Whilst I have usually earned an okay wage I had a temp summer job immediately upon graduation; I was working in the accounts department of a college. I took home something crap per hour. I had to process invoices and game across the invoice for me….at a lot more an hour. I think it was 3 and 5 pound an hour respectively but could be wrong. Now I have always considered myself determined, hard working and also professional…. but I went to the agency at the end of the week, quit the job and signed on. It’s a horrible feeling to be screwed over like this. My point is there must be many hard working people out there today who look at the current crap options and, like me in the very early 90s, think f*** that. I can empathise and understand .
 
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Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

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Jul 7, 2003
31,313
We hear a lot about the importance of the triple lock, Winter Fuel Allowance, the unfairness of Inheritance Tax (particularly on the farmers), the state of the NHS (used predominately by the elderly) but hardly ever hear about the average house price being 8 x average earnings compared to 4 x earnings 30-odd years ago.

With tuition fee rises, high rents, student loans, the high cost of living and now the NMW/NLW/NI hikes the young are really copping it, and if they haven't got family capital to bail them out then they are struggling. Then there is the uncertainty of how AI will affect the job market.

If - like me - you are a parent of teenagers and you compare this situation to how it was 30/40 years ago it is scary. Back then the world was our oyster - full student grant, cobble together a few grand and you've got a deposit on a flat. Now the world is just plain scary.
 




P

portlock seagull

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Jul 28, 2003
17,931
mile oak said:
I know a few ppl from LA area never done a days work in their lives. Never will. They aint bothered. They appear to be doing allright for themselves and unless you wanna go 10 rounds with them you dont ask any question (why). Some ppl are very resourceful. Who am I to judge them.
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Drug pushers in other words?!
 


BadFish

BadFish

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Oct 19, 2003
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Pavilionaire said:
We hear a lot about the importance of the triple lock, Winter Fuel Allowance, the unfairness of Inheritance Tax (particularly on the farmers), the state of the NHS (used predominately by the elderly) but hardly ever hear about the average house price being 8 x average earnings compared to 4 x earnings 30-odd years ago.

With tuition fee rises, high rents, student loans, the high cost of living and now the NMW/NLW/NI hikes the young are really copping it, and if they haven't got family capital to bail them out then they are struggling. Then there is the uncertainty of how AI will affect the job market.

If - like me - you are a parent of teenagers and you compare this situation to how it was 30/40 years ago it is scary. Back then the world was our oyster - full student grant, cobble together a few grand and you've got a deposit on a flat. Now the world is just plain scary.
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What the youth of today can achieve through hard work is a lot different to what we could.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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The Fatherland
mile oak said:
I know a few ppl from LA area never done a days work in their lives. Never will. They aint bothered. They appear to be doing allright for themselves and unless you wanna go 10 rounds with them you dont ask any question (why). Some ppl are very resourceful. Who am I to judge them.
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Buy-2-Let landlords?
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Faversham
Herr Tubthumper said:
Whilst I have usually earned an okay wage I had a temp summer job immediately upon graduation; I was working in the accounts department of a college. I took home something crap per hour. I had to process invoices and game across the invoice for me….at a lot more an hour. I think it was 3 and 5 pound an hour respectively but could be wrong. Now I have always considered myself determined, hard working and also professional…. but I went to the agency at the end of the week, quit the job and signed on. It’s a horrible feeling to be screwed over like this. My point is there must be many hard working people out there today who look at the current crap options and, like me in the very early 90s, think f*** that. I can empathise and understand .
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I did exactly the same when I got a job at Acres the Bakers in Woodingdene after graduation. I quit not so much about the money, but because of the bullying scum that worked there. I laughed years later when I saw the place derelict and, later, bulldozed.

Luckily after a couple of weeks on the dole I got a job behind the bar at the Pav Tav.

Took another couple of years before I found a PhD place - in Vancouver. Meanwhile, moves to Crawley and Edgeware and three more jobs before lift-off. Cleaning airplanes at Gatwick lasted a week. Working in a publishing house near 7 Dials (as in the Agatha Christie 7 Dials) was fun.
 


Rdodge30

Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
772
Han Solo said:
Most boomers will refuse to understand, maybe a cognitive self defense for taking part in ruining our future,
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You can’t be serious with that statement? Most? Refuse to understand? (disagree with you) ruining your future ????
Han Solo said:
Many people in our generation have parents who moved away from home at anything between 16-18, invested a few years of hard work to get themselves somewhere to live
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I left home at 16 and I was earning £1.54 an hour, I rented a bedsit for £25 a week (16 hours pay) I currently employ 5 16 year olds on £9 an hour and a bedsit is now £150 to rent (16 hours pay) I worked 60 hours a week
 


Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
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Jul 17, 2003
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Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I did exactly the same when I got a job at Acres the Bakers in Woodingdene after graduation. I quit not so much about the money, but because of the bullying scum that worked there. I laughed years later when I saw the place derelict and, later, bulldozed.
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Before your enlightening explanation last week on how you deal with tools on the internet i’d have said you’re a a complete wanker for saying that but now I just feel sorry for you. 👍

Btw it’s Woodingdean
 




H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,937
Rdodge30 said:
You can’t be serious with that statement? Most? Refuse to understand? (disagree with you) ruining your future ????

I left home at 16 and I was earning £1.54 an hour, I rented a bedsit for £25 a week (16 hours pay) I currently employ 5 16 year olds on £9 an hour and a bedsit is now £150 to rent (16 hours pay) I worked 60 hours a week
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This is a very common phenomenon and a bit messed up.

"I worked endless hours with no payment and I want the same for young people today."

I get the pride and the strength that comes from accomplishing it but why would you want that when you know that most of the big employeers today make billions and pay shit? Is that really how it should be?

Maybe everyone under 25 isn't a bad, lazy human being. Maybe the job market just sucks arse, a rat race to the bottom. You being proud of what you did and what you do is one thing (and something I think you should be), but you why do you want it for others?
 


S.T.U cgull

S.T.U cgull

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2009
497
HILLLLLLL
Han Solo said:
This is a very common phenomenon and a bit messed up.

"I worked endless hours with no payment and I want the same for young people today."

I get the pride and the strength that comes from accomplishing it but why would you want that when you know that most of the big employeers today make billions and pay shit? Is that really how it should be?

Maybe everyone under 25 isn't a bad, lazy human being. Maybe the job market just sucks arse, a rat race to the bottom. You being proud of what you did and what you do is one thing (and something I think you should be), but you why do you want it for others?
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Last two paragraphs resonate. Been working for 13 and a bit years in the same financial services group post sixth-form. Can only speak from what I see / have seen..

If I cast my mind back to how things were when I started working to now- it is markedly different…

Far fewer starter level roles to apply for as these roles have largely been eradicated by technology advancements. As a consequence there is less opportunity for promotions upwards to new more challenging roles - and sadly I see a lot of twenty-somethings somewhat stagnate in development and motivation as this reality hits. Especially those who did not make it onto a pre-ordained Graduate or Apprentice scheme - perhaps 16 roles a year, in an organisation 1,000 strong..

Whereas only a few years ago a bonus may be on offer to such roles- no longer the case.. so less incentive to push to deliver.

When you factor in the undeniable higher-level of home comforts and things to pay for, I appreciate how their heads can drop..

I remember my salary package when I first made it to a managerial grade in early 2017.. for anybody making that same step today.. it is still the same amount to the penny. The light of ‘financial independence’ is now further down the tunnel - and that in turn has an impact in a world where the youngsters joining the workforce today - raised on technology and big-dreams of (unrealistic) instant reward are not used to ‘deferred gratification’.

Edit: should also add a short sentence on line-managers, and just my observations... It is difficult for a lot of line-managers who haven’t experienced these challenges either first-hand coming up the ranks OR second-hand when their own kids are in their 20s and starting out.. to understand why workers in this bracket end up detached.
 
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S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,330
Weststander said:
Dependent on the sector?

I’ve seen the hard workers in the professions rewarded with promotions, pay hikes, eventually becoming bosses or then succeeding when going it alone.
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Possibly. But I’ve worked across a fair number of sectors and “hard work = rewards” is not my experience, nor is it what I’ve seen others experience. For my personally, I’ve only started really progressing when I stopped caring, and stopped working longer hours, and ultimately prioritised myself.
 


H

Han Solo

Well-known member
May 25, 2024
2,937
Easy to forget when discussing these things also a massive change that has happened in the last 50 years that changes the "moral code of working" and this changes the sense of achievement.

In industrial society, most people either harvested resources or worked in factories producing stuff out of resources.

Everything counted. When you went into that mine, you improved your country (and your own situation). When you fed the workers that did it, likewise. When your factory either built something that was used domestically or exported, it improved your country.

Service society isn't like that. The average new job is to produce things that don't exist in the physical reality to people who have no use of what they're buying and it only benefits a group of foreign American, Chinese or Qatarian men who you will never meet in reality.

The idea that working means "improving society" is a relic from days long behind. The average occupation in 2024 is wizardry. "Administration". "Customer service". "IT services". Common jobs outside of wizardry includes creating a gigantic Chinese produced junkyard of abundance, universally recognised as the largest threat to humanity.

Kids know this shit.

They know everything is fake.

In fact, a lot of them - through hearing about crypto - also know that the money is fake. The current ones have even seen it with their own eyes:
Throughout their entire lives, they get to hear about various crises due to underfunding of society. A lack of money to build houses and bla bla. They also get to hear about how important it is to work, because it is valuable to society.

Then covid comes and 80% of their parents are told to go home and masturbate for the next six months because in reality no one needs them. The money that didn't exist to create their future is suddenly created out of thin air to help bank, companies and people pay the rents as they sit at home.

To us who are 30+ maybe it doesn't impact the lens in which we see society all that much, but to most younger people it must have created a mindfuck. "What is this shit?", "Whats the point?", "Is anything real?".

This was sort of a Pandora's box experience to them. Once you get to the point where you ask yourself "what is the point of sitting around for eight hours telling people to restart their computer?" you're in the deep shit. Asking these existential questions may have been romanticised by suicidal poets and bearded batshit crazy hermits, but they harm people. Both living with those thoughts and the escape routes from those thoughts are often non-compatible with inspiration.

The two different way forwards is, I guess, either to literally force people to work or create a society where people spend more time drinking tea and less time on wizardy and pollution. I'm strongly in favour of the latter.
 




H

HillBarnTillIDie

Active member
Jul 2, 2011
124
BadFish said:
Young people are also watching people working full time and struggling to cover the basics and not being able to afford to do stuff or buy a house.

Working purely as a means to earn money doesn't look that appealing at the moment. Those who are following a passion or vocation see things differently of course.
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Agree with you fully… but that was the same circumstance I saw growing up, as did my mates. Everyone had a hard time.

We moved out our house to my grandparents for a while so the house could be rented out to cover the mortgage.
We never went on a holidays abroad, or had takeaways, cable tv….
People we knew sold possession to keep above the water (cash converters got massively popular) or rented items (TVs you put 50p in to watch)
We saw this as motivation to make something of our lifes.

Expectation of a-lot of the young are to high, wanting the big bucks, probably from seeing influencers 24/7. Many also want things instantly and that must be difficult to handle.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,063
Han Solo said:
Easy to forget when discussing these things also a massive change that has happened in the last 50 years that changes the "moral code of working" and this changes the sense of achievement.
...
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quite a lot of guff. some mental gymnastics to pretend physical goods are useful and worthwhile, while service goods are not, it's just common room ponderings to justify an outlook that the world owes you, something more should be done for you. and contradictory, the physical products in China aren't worthwhile, but are when made local. anyway, the opening line really says it all: yes, some people have become workshy, they've changed their moral code towards working.
 


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