[Albion] To Avoid Hürzeler Bashing - The Staying Up and Europe Tracker - season 2024-25 Game 11 Update

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · 2024-11-13T16:38:10+0000

pigmanovich said:
Shirley the latter, silverware please!

I totally agree but @GT49er has already said they'd rather end up in the Conference League next season because they thought the Europa League was a step too far last season.

I'm sure most of us would just accept getting to European competition again without any caveats because it means we've had a very good season rather than worry about the fact we might not do quite so well as we'd like in the Champions League if we got there.

pigmanovich · 2024-11-13T17:02:30+0000

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
I totally agree but @GT49er has already said they'd rather end up in the Conference League next season because they thought the Europa League was a step too far last season.

I'm sure most of us would just accept getting to European competition again without any caveats because it means we've had a very good season rather than worry about the fact we might not do quite so well as we'd like in the Champions League if we got there.

Right, I understood your question as "are you prepared to risk a pummeling in the Europa League if it means we've won the FA Cup" to which my answer is definitely yes.

I probably still favor the FA Cup if the question is instead "would you rather qualify for Europa League by winning the Conference League or winning the FA Cup" but it's a bit less straightforward.

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · 2024-11-13T17:08:17+0000

pigmanovich said:
Right, I understood your question as "are you prepared to risk a pummeling in the Europa League if it means we've won the FA Cup" to which my answer is definitely yes.

I probably still favor the FA Cup if the question is instead "would you rather qualify for Europa League by winning the Conference League or winning the FA Cup" but it's a bit less straightforward.

I think the only time that sort of question could lead to a possible dilemma is if the choice was winning the FA Cup and getting into the Europa League or finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th and getting into the Champions League. I think then I'd still go with actually winning a trophy even if it meant a lower PL finishing position as when I'm old and telling the Great Grandkids about the olden days I'd rather be waxing lyrical about us winning the FA Cup, that season we finished 3rd won't even come into my thoughts.

pigmanovich · 2024-11-13T17:09:40+0000

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
I think the only time that sort of question could lead to a possible dilemma is if the choice was winning the FA Cup and getting into the Europa League or finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th and getting into the Champions League. I think then I'd still go with actually winning a trophy even if it meant a lower PL finishing position as when I'm old and telling the Great Grandkids about the olden days I'd rather be waxing lyrical about us winning the FA Cup, that season we finished 3rd won't even come into my thoughts.

I'm with you!

jcdenton08 · 2024-11-13T17:15:37+0000

This concept of “going too far too soon” is an entirely antiquated myth, with only a couple of real life examples.

George Reynolds building a 25,000 all-seater stadium for Darlington, when they were in the Conference and averaged 2,000 a week at Feethams was one example.

Teams progressing too quickly through the non-league and not having good enough facilities is another (decent floodlights, fence around pitch etc).

Otherwise, it is a fallacy. Every single club wants to go as far in the highest league possible and biggest cup competition possible, even if they get battered every week, because that’s where the money is.

Clubs get €16m for simply participating in the Champions League. Then they get the merit payments from their league finish, with 4th being over £40m, and higher for 3rd and above. Qualifying for the Champions League via league position means you’ve made a minimum of £50m before a ball is even kicked.

Then an extra €2.8m per win (€930,000 for a draw) plus obviously the gate receipts for an “A” band game.

Round of 16? €9.6m
Quarter Finals? €10.6m
Semi Finals? €12.5m
Runner Up? €15.5m
Winner? €20m

TV money… €10-20m
Commercial income? Hard to say and dependent on performance, but a minimum of €3-5m.

Then there’s intangibles like brand growth, sponsorship opportunities being cultivated and so on.

So yes, finishing 4th and getting battered 5-0 every single game in the Group Stages of the CL is worth a fortune.

And, if you’re smart with your investments and money like we are and don’t go crazy with the extra wealth, you simply exit the competition £50m+ (minimum) richer and try again next year.

ANYONE saying their club “isn’t ready for the next level” is either extremely dim, or is huffed up on absurd amounts of copium trying to justify how happy they are with their team’s failure.

Triggaaar · 2024-11-13T17:25:45+0000

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
If we won the FA Cup we'd be guaranteed Europa League at a minimum. So if you could pick would you go Conference League or winning the FA Cup?

You could reword your question as do you support a rival or Brighton?

GT49er · 2024-11-13T17:46:23+0000

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
If we won the FA Cup we'd be guaranteed Europa League at a minimum. So if you could pick would you go Conference League or winning the FA Cup?

FA Cup, that's a biggie. Bigger deal than the conference - IMHO bigger than the Europa too!

Brian Munich · 2024-11-13T18:06:22+0000

GT49er said:
Not when it's a step too far, too soon, no.

Although we scraped through some of those matches by the skin of our teeth...............and then we were schooled by Roma. All in all, if we'd had a choice, I'd have gone Conference.

The reason we were stuffed by Roma was not becuse the Europa QFs were a step to far. It was because De Zerbi only had one way of playing and our form was terrible at the time .

For context we were stuffed by Fulham 5 days before that fixture and were in the middle of that horrible end-of-season run of 13 games winning only 10 points. That’s relegation form, but you’d never suggest that the PL is a step too far.

I’d love to see us have another crack at the Europa with a manager that accepts that there’s more than one way to win a game - see Newcastle away.

ConfusedGloryHunter · 2024-11-13T18:25:01+0000

I remember the good old days when this thread was a means to stay grounded during a bad run of form.

jcdenton08 · 2024-11-13T18:27:12+0000

ConfusedGloryHunter said:
I remember the good old days when this thread was a means to stay grounded during a bad run of form.

It’s classic expectation creep

DataPoint · 2024-11-13T19:24:49+0000

jcdenton08 said:
This concept of “going too far too soon” is an entirely antiquated myth, with only a couple of real life examples.

George Reynolds building a 25,000 all-seater stadium for Darlington, when they were in the Conference and averaged 2,000 a week at Feethams was one example.

Teams progressing too quickly through the non-league and not having good enough facilities is another (decent floodlights, fence around pitch etc).

Otherwise, it is a fallacy. Every single club wants to go as far in the highest league possible and biggest cup competition possible, even if they get battered every week, because that’s where the money is.

Clubs get €16m for simply participating in the Champions League. Then they get the merit payments from their league finish, with 4th being over £40m, and higher for 3rd and above. Qualifying for the Champions League via league position means you’ve made a minimum of £50m before a ball is even kicked.

Then an extra €2.8m per win (€930,000 for a draw) plus obviously the gate receipts for an “A” band game.

Round of 16? €9.6m
Quarter Finals? €10.6m
Semi Finals? €12.5m
Runner Up? €15.5m
Winner? €20m

TV money… €10-20m
Commercial income? Hard to say and dependent on performance, but a minimum of €3-5m.

Then there’s intangibles like brand growth, sponsorship opportunities being cultivated and so on.

So yes, finishing 4th and getting battered 5-0 every single game in the Group Stages of the CL is worth a fortune.

And, if you’re smart with your investments and money like we are and don’t go crazy with the extra wealth, you simply exit the competition £50m+ (minimum) richer and try again next year.

ANYONE saying their club “isn’t ready for the next level” is either extremely dim, or is huffed up on absurd amounts of copium trying to justify how happy they are with their team’s failure.

Phew! If it's just about the money - might as well sell Carlos Baleba for €120m - put our feet up - take it easy - and swan around the Med for a few weeks. Don't think we're desperate for a bob or two just at the moment!

jcdenton08 · 2024-11-13T20:32:15+0000

DataPoint said:
Phew! If it's just about the money - might as well sell Carlos Baleba for €120m - put our feet up - take it easy - and swan around the Med for a few weeks. Don't think we're desperate for a bob or two just at the moment!

Well we’d snap anyone (Chelsea)‘s hand off for €120m for Baleba, yes. Or any of our players.

Home and Away · 2024-11-13T20:41:38+0000

Brian Munich said:
The reason we were stuffed by Roma was not becuse the Europa QFs were a step to far. It was because De Zerbi only had one way of playing and our form was terrible at the time .

For context we were stuffed by Fulham 5 days before that fixture and were in the middle of that horrible end-of-season run of 13 games winning only 10 points. That’s relegation form, but you’d never suggest that the PL is a step too far.

I’d love to see us have another crack at the Europa with a manager that accepts that there’s more than one way to win a game - see Newcastle away.

I agree 100%. I don't understand the logic of some people here... would it be better to be in EFL League One because we would win it? I know I rather watch us get beaten every once in awhile if that's the highest level and against the best of the best. Would you really prefer playing likes of Gillingham and Shrewsbury every week?

Europa League WAS our level... we played one poor game (out of 8) and that was against AS Roma, not Crawley, not Stoke, not Shamrock Rovers... AS Roma.

Triggaaar · 2024-11-13T20:43:14+0000

GT49er said:
FA Cup, that's a biggie. Bigger deal than the conference - IMHO bigger than the Europa too!

No way is the FA cup bigger than the Europa League

Triggaaar · 2024-11-13T20:45:32+0000

jcdenton08 said:
Well we’d snap anyone (Chelsea)‘s hand off for €120m for Baleba, yes. Or any of our players.

That's > 10% less than we got for Caicedo. Not sure why we'd be snapping hands off.

jcdenton08 · 2024-11-13T21:13:59+0000

Triggaaar said:
That's > 10% less than we got for Caicedo. Not sure why we'd be snapping hands off.

Because it’d be an extraordinary fee for a player who is just this season finding form and looking a top player.

He has 36 Premier League appearances for the Albion (and 21 Ligue 1 appearances in France) and so far has one goal, one assist, and made two errors leading to goals.

But don’t get me wrong, he has all the attributes to be a top player. But he’s had, what, half a dozen great games for us.

To think that someone, even Chelsea, would pay £100m without at least two full good seasons is insanity.

Triggaaar · 2024-11-13T21:24:32+0000

jcdenton08 said:
Because it’d be an extraordinary fee for a player who is just this season finding form and looking a top player.

He has 36 Premier League appearances for the Albion (and 21 Ligue 1 appearances in France) and so far has one goal, one assist, and made two errors leading to goals.

But don’t get me wrong, he has all the attributes to be a top player. But he’s had, what, half a dozen great games for us.

To think that someone, even Chelsea, would pay £100m without at least two full good seasons is insanity.

Well we can't sell him now because the transfer window is closed. If he plays as well as we hope this season, then getting large offers at the end of the season isn't unrealistic.

jcdenton08 · 2024-11-13T21:25:49+0000

Triggaaar said:
Well we can't sell him now because the transfer window is closed. If he plays as well as we hope this season, then getting large offers at the end of the season isn't unrealistic.

I agree, if he maintains this level of performance it’s very realistic. I don’t know if it’s £100m realistic.

oldboyroy · 2024-11-13T21:31:05+0000

Still have to pinch myself when a thread is talking about champions league Europa League or even conference league. Still buzzing over beating the champions on Saturday

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo · 2024-11-13T22:03:52+0000

jcdenton08 said:
To think that someone, even Chelsea, would pay £100m without at least two full good seasons is insanity.

Well they paid over £100m for Caicedo at the end of one good season (and about 7 games at the end of the previous season).

If Baleba keeps up his form this season he’ll have played around 20 more games at a PL level than Moises had when he left for Chelsea. The idea that someone wouldn’t have to pay somewhere near a similar fee to get us to part with Carlos isn’t that fanciful.

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