[Travel] Trains (again), Safety

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

mile oak said:
When Palace come to the Amex, is that statement about no more carriages inaccurate, i.e. the railway finds a driver and carriages for them? Or am I missing something here?

Post game against Crystal Palace (Midweek) there are more carriages available, as the train runs after the evening rush hour so, the services in the London area do not require extra carriages. So there is your accuracy. On a Saturday and Sunday the service is running at full capacity so there is also spare rolling stock. I personally have had very few issues to or from a Saturday on Sunday game, unless there has been an operational incident or an infrastructure failure.

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

mile oak said:
You make many interesting contributions thanks. What I would love to know (I appreciate it wont change much!) is when Falmer was decided upon what was agreed in the transport situation, what legally binding aspects, who signed off on this and most importantly was there a risk analysis report looking at disruption to what presumably was considered safe and viable and are any of these matters now happening?

I don’t know the answer to that sorry, but I do know that the midweek failures are, in my opinion due to lack of rolling stock. The service between Brighton and Lewes has actually been improved since the opening of the stadium. There’s now a new signalling section between Falmer and London Road which wasn’t there on the opening of the stadium.

mile oak · Nov 10, 2024

jackalbion said:
Post game against Crystal Palace (Midweek) there are more carriages available, as the train runs after the evening rush hour so, the services in the London area do not require extra carriages. So there is your accuracy. On a Saturday and Sunday the service is running at full capacity so there is also spare rolling stock. I personally have had very few issues to or from a Saturday on Sunday game, unless there has been an operational incident or an infrastructure failure.

OK thanks. Im not trying to be confrontational here just curious - couldn't we have non-Palace i.e. our supporters special going North via Lewes say first stop Wivelsfield then all stations to Three Bridges then reverse to say all stations to Horsham. Something like that?

Pondicherry · Nov 10, 2024

There were originally 3 park and rides organised by the club. One was lost and never replaced so presumably that was in the control of the club (to replace the one they lost). Indeed they sometimes do managed to replace it with the one at Pyecombe but never permanently.

Paulie Gualtieri · Nov 10, 2024

Pondicherry said:
There were originally 3 park and rides organised by the club. One was lost and never replaced so presumably that was in the control of the club (to replace the one they lost). Indeed they sometimes do managed to replace it with the one at Pyecombe but never permanently.

Pyecombe is a functional equestrian centre so can only be utilised for P&R when their core facilities are not being used for their primary purpose

The same for EDF.

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

mile oak said:
OK thanks. Im not trying to be confrontational here just curious - couldn't we have non-Palace i.e. our supporters special going North via Lewes say first stop Wivelsfield then all stations to Three Bridges then reverse to say all stations to Horsham. Something like that?

The palace special involves the removal of a Brighton - Lewes - Brighton circuit, and only runs because the crowds need to be kept apart. More trains can run without the special. It also would not recycle the stock to return and collect alternative capacity. Also a service to use that routing would require possibly two maybe three additional drivers. Reversing trains outside of platform 5 at Lewes reduces capacity. It’s much better using that slot to shuttle people between Brighton and Lewes, where people can connect to other destinations.

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

Pondicherry said:
There were originally 3 park and rides organised by the club. One was lost and never replaced so presumably that was in the control of the club (to replace the one they lost). Indeed they sometimes do managed to replace it with the one at Pyecombe but never permanently.

There were a series of Buses that disappeared but were never replaced, or replaced with paid seagulls travel. Seagulls travel is a great service but (I might be wrong) did it not used to be part of the travel subsidy, ultimately people aren’t going to pay for a service when there’s an alternative for free. I also think it should be noted we are an outlier in 90% of supporters use Public Transport to reach the stadium (that includes park and ride) which is more than any other club in the league. Ultimately why I have no interest in Seagulls Travel is because I want to go to the pub with my mates before and after the game not straight home.

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

jackalbion said:
The palace special involves the removal of a Brighton - Lewes - Brighton circuit, and only runs because the crowds need to be kept apart. More trains can run without the special. It also would not recycle the stock to return and collect alternative capacity. Also a service to use that routing would require possibly two maybe three additional drivers. Reversing trains outside of platform 5 at Lewes reduces capacity. It’s much better using that slot to shuttle people between Brighton and Lewes, where people can connect to other destinations.

If the government invested in ETCS this problem would however disappear!

Springal · Nov 10, 2024

Train seemed fine yesterday although I didn’t quite understand why we had 20 minutes between trains just after 4, then 3 in very quick succession. Didn’t help the queues

Gazwag · Nov 10, 2024

IMO all that is really needed is 8 car trains to Eastbourne/Ore and Seaford and the Lewes only service, then I find it works really well.

Everyone one on the platform getting on the first train and change at Lewes would help

A tight game also helps as fans stay longer

TWOCHOICEStom · Nov 10, 2024

Springal said:
Train seemed fine yesterday although I didn’t quite understand why we had 20 minutes between trains just after 4, then 3 in very quick succession. Didn’t help the queues

Heard a member of staff saying something about a signalling issue meaning one train overtook another when it shouldn’t have or something. Wasn’t planned in any case.

jackalbion · Nov 10, 2024

TWOCHOICEStom said:
Heard a member of staff saying something about a signalling issue meaning one train overtook another when it shouldn’t have or something. Wasn’t planned in any case.

If you can get enough signal on Matchday, this app/webpage is perfect for understand what is going on/when the next train is.

TRAKSY.UK

Live train maps and timetables

traksy.uk

Beanstalk · Nov 10, 2024

Tom Hark Preston Park said:
Great news that the trains have now gotten so bad that MPs are getting involved. Let's see the club refuse to engage on that level, even if they've repeatedly refused to engage at fan level. Over to you PBOBE...

*edit* and furk right off chailey monkey, we're talking to the organ grinder here

Bit mean to blame PBOBE for anything train related. Those ITK understand that it’s all the responsibility and fault of @jackalbion

Dave the OAP · Nov 10, 2024

timbha said:
Is there a PL stadium car park where it is quick (or not mega slow) to get away?

Ditto…. by main line train from the stadium?

Forest?

Beanstalk · Nov 10, 2024

Professor Plum said:
At last. I'm full of praise for the club in most ways but despite the excellent travel subsidies, they have failed to accept the fact that it's not enough, and that travel is still a nightmare for many fans. If they won't grasp the nettle it's time this was escalated to another level. It's not just a club and convenience topic but a matter of public safety and public order. I spend £25 a match on Seagull Travel because I couldn't hack it anymore.

This is all true but as our resident Francis Bourgeois regularly says it’s pretty much out of their hands as the issue is stock and capacity. Can only be solved by government and the club working together to ensure the right service is provided by the train companies. Hopefully this is the first step to redemption.

Whilst leaving Falmer is a bore, as someone who comes down for every game from London, it’s the ability to then get out of Brighton that really sucks - not sure that’s the club’s responsibility.

Guinness Boy · Nov 10, 2024

I’m really starting to read this thread in the voice of a whiny old man who doesn’t like queuing and has optimistically told ‘er indoors that he’ll be home 30 mins after the game has finished.

The idea that 30-60,000 people get away from any venue at all without delay is f**king ludicrous.

Mid week is shit because of the rolling stock issue and evening rush hour traffic. Always will be. Plan for it accordingly or don’t go at all or suck it up. But don’t pretend you don’t know.

dazzer6666 · Nov 10, 2024

Guinness Boy said:
I’m really starting to read this thread in the voice of a whiny old man who doesn’t like queuing and has optimistically told ‘er indoors that he’ll be home 30 mins after the game has finished.

The idea that 30-60,000 people get away from any venue at all without delay is f**king ludicrous.

Mid week is shit because of the rolling stock issue and evening rush hour traffic. Always will be. Plan for it accordingly or don’t go at all or suck it up. But don’t pretend you don’t know.

This. Very few away grounds are any better.

Professor Plum · Nov 10, 2024

Beanstalk said:
This is all true but as our resident Francis Bourgeois regularly says it’s pretty much out of their hands as the issue is stock and capacity. Can only be solved by government and the club working together to ensure the right service is provided by the train companies. Hopefully this is the first step to redemption.

Whilst leaving Falmer is a bore, as someone who comes down for every game from London, it’s the ability to then get out of Brighton that really sucks - not sure that’s the club’s responsibility.

I don’t buy this rolling stock thing. I can’t believe that there aren’t, somewhere on the network, a few retired carriages in a shed somewhere, that couldn't be pressed into service on a small number of occasions. If not on the local network, then somewhere else. We’re not asking for brand new, state-of-the-art rolling stock. Just some temporary added capacity. If you explained to passengers why some carriages weren’t so modern looking, I’m sure no one would mind. I’m sure this is done elsewhere.

It’s not a lack of rolling stock but a lack of will that prevents this issue being, if not solved, then certainly improved.

Professor Plum · Nov 10, 2024

dazzer6666 said:
This. Very few away grounds are any better.

I’ve no doubt some are worse but I don’t think it’s true that "very few are better". Not many are perfect but plenty, probably most, are better.

What varies I think is the willingness of people to put up with it. If I was a lot younger I think I’d be far less bothered. I’d be with my mates and it could all be a bit of a laugh. And I’d be out of the house, possibly where I’d be living with parents. I’m late 60s and hate being buggered about by public transport which happens a lot in the UK.

Anyway, this topic has been done to death, certainly by me. I’m going to try shutting up about it and hope that the MP's intervention might result in some sort of step forward.

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ · Nov 10, 2024

As long as vehicle bat collisions are kept at a minimum we’re ok

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