[Misc] Kemi Badenoch confirmed as new Tory leader

Hugo Rune · Nov 3, 2024

Right Brain Ronnie said:
I find it amazing how you don't pick out the farmer who killed himself over Labour poor decisions to tax people literally to death. Labour have an unbelievable misunderstanding of real life.

RIP that man and condolences to all his family.

I’ve not seen the story anywhere.

A quick google finds this story on suicidal farmers by your man Clarkson.

Clarkson speaks out about alarming suicide rates in farming - Farmers Guide

With the rate of suicide reported to be alarmingly higher in farming compared to the national average, Jeremy Clarkson is on a mission to help raise awareness of poor mental health in farming caused by mounting financial and societal pressures.

www.farmersguide.co.uk

Is it something to do with this?

Bodian · Nov 3, 2024

Right Brain Ronnie said:
I find it amazing how you don't pick out the farmer who killed himself over Labour poor decisions to tax people literally to death. Labour have an unbelievable misunderstanding of real life.

RIP that man and condolences to all his family.

In respect of the suicide being connected to IHT - "The National Farmers Union said it could not confirm the claims" Partly because the facebook post referring to it was anonymous. Around 40 farmers a year commit suicide - almost one a week, so it could well have been unconnected. If it happened.

Anyway, I suspect there will be an increase in farms becoming Trusts - which further avoid much of IHT.

Zeberdi · Nov 3, 2024

Right Brain Ronnie said:
Ok, I think Kemi will do exactly as she should by grabbing both of starmers gonads and give them the squeeze that is needed to make his vision clearer than it currently is. If she needs to spice it up to get results so be it.
This country deserves better than being put in a double straight jacket with multiple locks on it by Starmer and Reeves.
Kemi is going to have to be the countries Houdini to let us breathe again......the question is how long can the country hold it's breath for?

Genuine question RB (because I don’t want to get embroiled in the thread particulary) relating to a point I made above:

Dyslexia and the rights of people who are neurodivergent are obviously really important to you (as they are to me too) so what do you think of Kemi’s comments about autism and it being a mental health condition or just a form of ‘anxiety’ that people should ’work on themselves to improve’ and her implications that neurodivergence gives you opportunities and benefits not afforded to others ?

Do you think she would fairly represent neurodivergent people or even understand the nature of their condition and obstacles they face (which you yourself have raised many times) ?

Perhaps read the response of the autism society before you reply

Our response to Kemi Badenoch’s views on autism

The National Autistic Society has responded to Kemi Badenoch’s views on autism, as seen in the ‘Conservatism in Crisis’ pamphlet.

www.autism.org.uk

Kemi Badenoch pamphlet’s autism comments are as inaccurate as they are dangerous

The North West Essex MP and Conservative Party leadership candidate put her name to an essay titled Conservatism in Crisis, in which the authors – made up of current and ex-Tory politicians &…

liamodell.com

Pavilionaire · Nov 4, 2024

Badenoch has not done a good job of commenting on the mistakes of her predecessors and hasn't grasped that in order to win trust you have to acknowledge the mistakes of the past but present how you will do things differently.

Simply stating you want to renew and reboot and not get drawn into a forensic examination of where Johnson and Truss went wrong might work with Tory members and the MPs but won't wash with the media or the public.

She is good at the broad brush strokes but incredibly light on detail, and having Cleverley, Hunt and Dowden indicate they will not serve in her Shadow Cabinet leaves her light on big beasts and One Nation Conservatives.

Crucially, what will the donors do, and will they back the Tory Party who are down to c 140,000 member from the 180,000 of 2 years ago and even the 310,000 they had in 2001 despite 2 Blair landslides.

It is now time for Farage to respond. There will be a lot of dissaffected Tories ready to be won over.

dsr-burnley · Nov 4, 2024

WATFORD zero said:
No he's not correct. It's a complete f***ing moronic lie that he's got from somewhere that pumps out complete f***ing moronic lies and depends on the fact that he's too stupid to check it, before repeating it.

But this is where we are. Repeat a lie enough times and and it doesn't matter that it's a complete lie, it's now all over the world. I'm well aware that I'm an old man shouting at clouds, but I get angry at this sort of shit, repeated and pumped out all over 'the media'.

Thank goodness I can sign off, with a nice glass of Carminere, a lamb chop and some green veg and spend the rest of the night with Mrs Wz in the lounge. (Even though she has the remote ).

Being an old man is not a valid excuse for that sort of filth.

Pavilionaire · Nov 4, 2024

Motogull said:
Really interesting numbers. Thank you. Does that reveal reduced interest or membership level?

Fewer btw.

Tory membership is down 23% from 2 years ago, and turnout on this leadership contest is down from 82% to 72%. Given that an existential threat exists to the Tory Party from Reform and the collapse of One Nation Conservatism you wonder why so many members didn't vote.

I think for many they renew in part because it is a social thing, i.e. belonging to the local Conservative Association, a pint and a frame of snooker in the Conservative Club, Round Table / Masons etc or interest in local politics. It's like renewing your season ticket after your club has been relegated from the Prem to the Championship.

However, the fact remains that Badenoch received just 53,000 votes from members. It's not a lot. Jeremy Corbyn got more than that from just the Glastonbury crowd.

Professor Plum · Nov 4, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
I wouldn’t be so sure.

Starmer is a calm, measured, forensic sort of chap who obsesses about ‘the rules.’

Badenoch doesn’t give a shit about the rules. She’s an absolute street fighter who considers no blow to be too low.

I would imagine there willl be a lot if strategising going on at Labour HQ about how best to handle her, because in a straight fight across the Dispatch Box she’ll smash Starmer.

I think “smash Starmer” is an exaggeration as is all this stuff about her being a loose cannon / street fighter / attack dog / right wing nut. These are all silly labels and Guardian-style caricatures. But certainly she is capable of being an awkward customer. And being a young black woman will itself mean that Sir Keir will have to tread a little lightly, at least until they suss her out a bit. He won’t want to be portrayed as being bullying or too dismissive of her which is possibly a problem as being dismissive of your counterpart is a staple part of PMQs. Will be worth watching the first couple at least. I’ve grown out of the habit as I find it all rather over-stagemanaged (by all parties). It’s theatre rather than meaningful political debate.

Professor Plum · Nov 4, 2024

Pavilionaire said:
Tory membership is down 23% from 2 years ago, and turnout on this leadership contest is down from 82% to 72%. Given that an existential threat exists to the Tory Party from Reform and the collapse of One Nation Conservatism you wonder why so many members didn't vote.

I think for many they renew in part because it is a social thing, i.e. belonging to the local Conservative Association, a pint and a frame of snooker in the Conservative Club, Round Table / Masons etc or interest in local politics. It's like renewing your season ticket after your club has been relegated from the Prem to the Championship.

However, the fact remains that Badenoch received just 53,000 votes from members. It's not a lot. Jeremy Corbyn got more than that from just the Glastonbury crowd.

I think the days of those Conservative social clubs are largely over. When we moved to Eastbourne my wife joked about there probably being a Conservative club on every street corner but apparently there isn’t even one these days.

Yes, membership of all the main parties is down. I think a lot of Tory members were just as disillusioned with them at the last election as the country at large. Labour has 370K members, down from 530K at the previous election. That was something Corbyn got right, driving high levels of party membership. Since he went, the figures have nosedived.

Guinness Boy · Nov 4, 2024

Right Brain Ronnie said:
I find it amazing how you don't pick out the farmer who killed himself over Labour poor decisions to tax people literally to death. Labour have an unbelievable misunderstanding of real life.

RIP that man and condolences to all his family.

Have you got a link to that story?

Someone killing themselves to avoid inheritance tax should be a massive story,

Sid and the Sharknados · Nov 4, 2024

Guinness Boy said:
Have you got a link to that story?

Someone killing themselves to avoid inheritance tax should be a massive story,

There's a story in the Sun from a couple of days ago, apparently based on an anonymous post on a Farming Forum.

There are, unfortunately, often suicides associated with a lot of government spending decisions (try searching "universal credit suicide" for example). Some people under pressure who are already vulnerable to that sort of thing will react that way sadly, and there's always somebody who finds themself at the sharp end of a change who loses their job or right to claim something and can't cope with it.

I would be extremely cautious, to say the least, about using such stories to make a political point.

Dick Swiveller · Nov 4, 2024

Professor Plum said:
I think the days of those Conservative social clubs are largely over. When we moved to Eastbourne my wife joked about there probably being a Conservative club on every street corner but apparently there isn’t even one these days.

Yes, membership of all the main parties is down. I think a lot of Tory members were just as disillusioned with them at the last election as the country at large. Labour has 370K members, down from 530K at the previous election. That was something Corbyn got right, driving high levels of party membership. Since he went, the figures have nosedived.

Fairly sure the Constitutional Club is still in Queens Gardens.

A1X · Nov 4, 2024

Pavilionaire said:
It is now time for Farage to respond. There will be a lot of dissaffected Tories ready to be won over.

Not just Farage either, this is a golden, quite possibly “once in a lifetime” opportunity for the Lib Dems to present themselves as “the credible alternative”. They took a lot of disaffected centrist Tory votes in the election and it’s doubtful how many of those sort of voters (Remain-y middle class southern professionals) will be enthused by Badenoch and her culture wars.

Guinness Boy · Nov 4, 2024

Sid and the Sharknados said:
There's a story in the Sun from a couple of days ago, apparently based on an anonymous post on a Farming Forum.

I would be extremely cautious, to say the least, about using such stories to make a political point.

I suppose you lose rationality, but I’d have expected the MSM to have picked up on a story about being so worried about impoverishing your family (spoiler; it won’t) that you do the one thing that would trigger it.

Either way, nothing to do with Badenoch as I suspect the OP knew.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 4, 2024

A1X said:
Not just Farage either, this is a golden, quite possibly “once in a lifetime” opportunity for the Lib Dems to present themselves as “the credible alternative”. They took a lot of disaffected centrist Tory votes in the election and it’s doubtful how many of those sort of voters (Remain-y middle class southern professionals) will be enthused by Badenoch and her culture wars.

The media didn’t make much of it, but the LibDems brought a motion against the change to the WFA. They were defeated but at least they tried.
The problem is the media. The LibDems have 72 MPs but are rarely on tv, radio or in the press for interviews whereas Reform with only 5 MPs are mentioned, or interviewed every week.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 4, 2024

Guinness Boy said:
Have you got a link to that story?

Someone killing themselves to avoid inheritance tax should be a massive story,

Dan Neidle, tax expert, has stated the inheritance tax for farmers has been grossly exaggerated with less than 200 farms in the country actually being affected.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 4, 2024

Hugo Rune said:
I’ve not seen the story anywhere.

A quick google finds this story on suicidal farmers by your man Clarkson.

Clarkson speaks out about alarming suicide rates in farming - Farmers Guide

With the rate of suicide reported to be alarmingly higher in farming compared to the national average, Jeremy Clarkson is on a mission to help raise awareness of poor mental health in farming caused by mounting financial and societal pressures.

www.farmersguide.co.uk

Is it something to do with this?

Generally speaking when a farmer is driven to such appalling measures, it is because of losing their entire livestock to foot & mouth. Despite what vegetarians think, farmers are quite fond on their animals and having them destroyed becomes unbearable.

BLOCK F · Nov 4, 2024

WATFORD zero said:
No he's not correct. It's a complete f***ing moronic lie that he's got from somewhere that pumps out complete f***ing moronic lies and depends on the fact that he's too stupid to check it, before repeating it.

But this is where we are. Repeat a lie enough times and and it doesn't matter that it's a complete lie, it's now all over the world. I'm well aware that I'm an old man shouting at clouds, but I get angry at this sort of shit, repeated and pumped out all over 'the media'.

Thank goodness I can sign off, with a nice glass of Carminere, a lamb chop and some green veg and spend the rest of the night with Mrs Wz in the lounge. (Even though she has the remote ).

Phew, I’ve only just read these few posts re civil servant numbers and I’m just relieved that all parties seem to have survived the explosive nature of the retorts.
Glad I missed it all. At my age I may have succumbed to a heart attack.
PS. At evening telly time, my wife always has the remote as I buzz off and watch telly in a different room with my own remote

Right Brain Ronnie · Nov 4, 2024

Hugo Rune said:
I’ve not seen the story anywhere.

A quick google finds this story on suicidal farmers by your man Clarkson.

Clarkson speaks out about alarming suicide rates in farming - Farmers Guide

With the rate of suicide reported to be alarmingly higher in farming compared to the national average, Jeremy Clarkson is on a mission to help raise awareness of poor mental health in farming caused by mounting financial and societal pressures.

www.farmersguide.co.uk

Is it something to do with this?

Clearly not, you know what I am talking about.

Bodian said:
In respect of the suicide being connected to IHT - "The National Farmers Union said it could not confirm the claims" Partly because the facebook post referring to it was anonymous. Around 40 farmers a year commit suicide - almost one a week, so it could well have been unconnected. If it happened.

Anyway, I suspect there will be an increase in farms becoming Trusts - which further avoid much of IHT.

Your correct it an industry that is stressed to the max. So why do labour not get it? Tax the f*CK ot the poor hard working person, suck the doctors cocks and slash the farmers throats.
Starmer and Reeves are showing how ruthless they are AGAINST the working man and it crosses the line. I hope the farmers drop a shit all over downing street. I never protest to disrupt everyone else but when it comes to the guys that feed us, I will support them from the front on this one.
Labour are way out of their depth.
God help us.

Zeberdi said:
Genuine question RB (because I don’t want to get embroiled in the thread particulary) relating to a point I made above:

Dyslexia and the rights of people who are neurodivergent are obviously really important to you (as they are to me too) so what do you think of Kemi’s comments about autism and it being a mental health condition or just a form of ‘anxiety’ that people should ’work on themselves to improve’ and her implications that neurodivergence gives you opportunities and benefits not afforded to others ?

Do you think she would fairly represent neurodivergent people or even understand the nature of their condition and obstacles they face (which you yourself have raised many times) ?

Perhaps read the response of the autism society before you reply

Our response to Kemi Badenoch’s views on autism

The National Autistic Society has responded to Kemi Badenoch’s views on autism, as seen in the ‘Conservatism in Crisis’ pamphlet.

www.autism.org.uk

Kemi Badenoch pamphlet’s autism comments are as inaccurate as they are dangerous

The North West Essex MP and Conservative Party leadership candidate put her name to an essay titled Conservatism in Crisis, in which the authors – made up of current and ex-Tory politicians &…

liamodell.com

Thanks for this I don't see me voting for her, but I see her as good opposition and hopefully she will relate to many that the Tories have not done before.
But Reform are the only party who are growing exponentially. Watch this space.
I don't know her views on neurodiversity thank you for the links when i get a spare hour I will read and digest them.

Guinness Boy said:
Have you got a link to that story?

Someone killing themselves to avoid inheritance tax should be a massive story,

You can use the word "Knob" in many different ways, I will allow you and others to apply this, regarding your tasteless comment.

I have probably been too soft on you.

If you can swap that word to the female version, then that may be more applicable.

Guinness Boy · Nov 4, 2024

Right Brain Ronnie said:
Clearly not, you know what I am talking about.

Your correct it an industry that is stressed to the max. So why do labour not get it? Tax the f*CK ot the poor hard working person, suck the doctors cocks and slash the farmers throats.
Starmer and Reeves are showing how ruthless they are AGAINST the working man and it crosses the line. I hope the farmers drop a shit all over downing street. I never protest to disrupt everyone else but when it comes to the guys that feed us, I will support them from the front on this one.
Labour are way out of their depth.
God help us.

Thanks for this I don't see me voting for her, but I see her as good opposition and hopefully she will relate to many that the Tories have not done before.
But Reform are the only party who are growing exponentially. Watch this space.
I don't know her views on neurodiversity thank you for the links when i get a spare hour I will read and digest them.

You can use the word "Knob" in many different ways, I will allow you and others to apply this, regarding your tasteless comment.

I have probably been too soft on you.

If you can swap that word to the female version, then that may be more applicable.

“Working men” do not own 3 million pound properties and you have no link, story or proof. What has any of this got to do with Badenoch anyway? Nearly as much whataboutery as Mouldy Boots used to deal in.

RandyWanger · Nov 4, 2024

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