[Technology] If you could afford it would your next car be an EV?

Nobby Cybergoat · Oct 15, 2024

I’ve got to admit I’m inspired by this thread.

I’m looking at a plan whereby I get an EV for about 5 to 7k (to replace the old, but to be fair reliable Astra I currently have, probably when it conks out).

I’m thinking of powering this by solar. I reckon I can get about 16ish panels on my roof. I’m estimating maybe 10k for this. I’m thinking currently no battery

The plan is to get some sort of Octopus sell the excess power back type deal.

The hope is to take a big chunk out of my electricity bills and not to have to pay for petrol

Don’t drive loads, only the occasional long trip. I’ve got a driveway

You got any thoughts? Does this sound sensible? Anything I need to think of?

dsr-burnley · Oct 15, 2024

chickens said:
I do find it fascinating that we seem to have already gone past the tipping point, with the “yes/already have one” vote marginally ahead of the “no” vote.

True, but how much of that is because people have been given imaginary unlimited funds to do it?

It would be interesting to do a similar poll without the "if you can afford it" proviso. Similar results, or significantly different? Who knows?

Flounce · Oct 15, 2024

dsr-burnley said:
True, but how much of that is because people have been given imaginary unlimited funds to do it?

It would be interesting to do a similar poll without the "if you can afford it" proviso. Similar results, or significantly different? Who knows?

The No vote has taken the lead again :smile:

Given the “if you could afford it” premise, I suggest the No vote would be much bigger than the yes/already have one. I am surprised how many already have one though.

NSC is obviously a place for lots of rich people :wink:

Annoying that the mods have removed the ability to see who voted what though.

raymondo · Oct 15, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I think you’ll find we have a long term and continued policy of drilling exactly the same fossil fuels and we’re not minted.

But I guess they have a record of electing more sensible government

Yes

, I think Norway has extracted more oil but the difference isn't huge. However, population of Norway is about 5.5 million...and yes, I'm sure their governments have been more sensible than ours for a long while (they couldn't be less sensible, shirley

)

Flounce · Oct 15, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I’ve got to admit I’m inspired by this thread.

I’m looking at a plan whereby I get an EV for about 5 to 7k (to replace the old, but to be fair reliable Astra I currently have, probably when it conks out).

I’m thinking of powering this by solar. I reckon I can get about 16ish panels on my roof. I’m estimating maybe 10k for this. I’m thinking currently no battery

The plan is to get some sort of Octopus sell the excess power back type deal.

The hope is to take a big chunk out of my electricity bills and not to have to pay for petrol

Don’t drive loads, only the occasional long trip. I’ve got a driveway

You got any thoughts? Does this sound sensible? Anything I need to think of?

All makes sense to me :thumbsup:

Bozza · Oct 15, 2024

Flounce said:
Annoying that the mods have removed the ability to see who voted what though.

It was done by accident by a mod. I suspect it's actually a bug in the software and it got changed without anyone selecting that.

And, as per the screenshot below, there is no front-end option to turn it back on when a poll is underway.

Which means an admin, ie me, has to go into the backend database and use SQL update statements to turn it on again. I've got a lot of shit going on right now, so I don't rate the task with quite the same level of priority as you seem to. But I'll do it when I can.

Flounce · Oct 15, 2024

Bozza said:
It was done by accident by a mod. I suspect it's actually a bug in the software and it got changed without anyone selecting that.

And, as per the screenshot below, there is no front-end option to turn it back on when a poll is underway.

Which means an admin, ie me, has to go into the backend database and use SQL update statements to turn it on again. I've got a lot of shit going on right now, so I don't rate the task with quite the same level of priority as you seem to. But I'll do it when I can.

View attachment 190338

Sorry Bozza, it’s not important at all under the circumstances. I imagined it would be an easy fix, clearly it’s not. Ignore it and please don’t spend any time trying to sort it

Fungus · Oct 15, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I’ve got to admit I’m inspired by this thread.

I’m looking at a plan whereby I get an EV for about 5 to 7k (to replace the old, but to be fair reliable Astra I currently have, probably when it conks out).

I’m thinking of powering this by solar. I reckon I can get about 16ish panels on my roof. I’m estimating maybe 10k for this. I’m thinking currently no battery

The plan is to get some sort of Octopus sell the excess power back type deal.

The hope is to take a big chunk out of my electricity bills and not to have to pay for petrol

Don’t drive loads, only the occasional long trip. I’ve got a driveway

You got any thoughts? Does this sound sensible? Anything I need to think of?

You're unlikely to power the car by solar for at least six months of the year, after powering the house during the day, but you'll make a few pence exporting the excess solar to the grid. With a battery, you'll be able to power the house for the other 18 hours each day with insufficient solar. With an EV tariff from Octopus, you can top up the house and EV with cheap electricity overnight, with full control over it. You can also export from the house battery to the grid at 15/kwh during the evening if you so wish, replacing it at 7p/kwh overnight. A house battery provides a lot more flexibility, and can even protect against power-cuts with the right set-up - most basic solar systems don't. Battery will add a few grand to the cost, though! But overall, it'll take a big chunk out of your bills.

chickens · Oct 15, 2024

dsr-burnley said:
True, but how much of that is because people have been given imaginary unlimited funds to do it?

It would be interesting to do a similar poll without the "if you can afford it" proviso. Similar results, or significantly different? Who knows?

I’m sure we’d get different numbers. From £1000 to £8000 the only real options are Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe. It’s not a mature market, those were the only two mass-market vehicles available.

Next step up is the Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro. They’re currently the £10k-£12k option.

Once we hit the £13k price point we start to get into everything else.

The landscape even a decade from now will look very different.

What’s currently top of the range will seem fine for battery capacity, but will charge a lot slower than the vehicles of 2034. There will be trade offs that people make, in exactly the same way that they do with combustion engine vehicles. Buy new for the latest and greatest, or spend less for older models.

A car that was advertised as doing 360 miles new on the test cycle will at brand new in a mix of motorway and town, in cold weather, do about 280-320 depending on how it’s driven.

At ten years old, I’d reduce that by three to ten percent for a battery that’s been slow charged and looked after, and 10% to 15% for a battery that’s only ever been charged at the highest speeds.

The model ranges and charging speeds will have improved significantly by 2030, it’s why I recommend PCP or lease to anyone considering a new EV, as the tech matures, improvements will keep coming along. Alternatively run a Leaf or Zoe as a runaround. If I can run one as my main motor, it can be done.

Audax · Oct 15, 2024

nicko31 said:
Seems all the VW ID range with 77kw batt will now be able to support it when the software update arrives

Ahhh, that's good news. I'm impatiently awaiting a call to arrange delivery of my new ID3 Pro S 77kW. Last I heard it was due to arrive at the dealer yesterday and they'd be getting in touch to arrange delivery to me as soon as final checks were done.

bazbha · Oct 15, 2024

Might be useful if there was a "Not yet" option. I'd like to buy an Electric Car but the sensible option seems to be to wait 10 years until they have a better range and come down in price a bit.

sparkie · Oct 15, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
This EV might win over a few sceptics...

New BYD Seagull will come to the UK in 2025 to rival the Dacia Spring | Auto Express

A new European-market BYD Seagull electric supermini is set to hit UK showrooms in the second half of next year

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Good old Shenzhen by the Sea.

severnside gull · Oct 15, 2024

When not driving locally my normal journeys are long(ish) distance on the motorway (Somerset to London/Birmingham/Manchester). I often need to do the return journey within the same day after meetings at locations where I can’t necessarily access a charger.
If I can’t do the return trip without having to stop en route to recharge and therefore lengthen my already long enough day then I’m honestly not interested.
A hybrid on the other hand……?

chip · Oct 15, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I’ve got to admit I’m inspired by this thread.

I’m looking at a plan whereby I get an EV for about 5 to 7k (to replace the old, but to be fair reliable Astra I currently have, probably when it conks out).

I’m thinking of powering this by solar. I reckon I can get about 16ish panels on my roof. I’m estimating maybe 10k for this. I’m thinking currently no battery

The plan is to get some sort of Octopus sell the excess power back type deal.

The hope is to take a big chunk out of my electricity bills and not to have to pay for petrol

Don’t drive loads, only the occasional long trip. I’ve got a driveway

You got any thoughts? Does this sound sensible? Anything I need to think of?

Me too. Do the Octopus PV+Battery thing on their website, I think you'll find the PV only array is cheaper than £10K. From memory, 20 panels (on multiple rooves) and 10kWh battery was around £13.5K in the summer. You'll probably get more back with a battery in cash terms, but it does seem to be very dependent on other things. I just got a new car, but will get the PVs+battery in the spring. I think it's becoming a more realistic option for ordinary folk now

Goldstone1976 · Oct 15, 2024

Flounce said:
Annoying that the mods have removed the ability to see who voted what though.

Bozza already said that that was a mistake, and that he’d correct it. I suspect he’s either been too busy (and I know he’s got a lot of stuff going on atm) or forgot (I suspect he’s rather less agitated by the topic than you).

Out of curiosity, why is it ‘annoying’ that you can’t see how individuals voted?

Edit: I see that Bozza had already replied before I did. I’m still curious why you find it ‘annoying’ though.

Flounce · Oct 15, 2024

Goldstone1976 said:
Bozza already said that that was a mistake, and that he’d correct it. I suspect he’s either been too busy (and I know he’s got a lot of stuff going on atm) or forgot (I suspect he’s rather less agitated by the topic than you).

Out of curiosity, why is it ‘annoying’ that you can’t see how individuals voted?

Edit: I see that Bozza had already replied before I did. I’m still curious why you find it ‘annoying’ though.

Because I’m a nosey fecker but as I said in the reply to Bozza I thought this would be a simple fix, Bozza has said it’s not so I apologise and have no wish for him to waste any time checking it further. Suffice to say I now feel bad about bringing it up again, sorry.

Audax · Oct 15, 2024

chip said:
Me too. Do the Octopus PV+Battery thing on their website, I think you'll find the PV only array is cheaper than £10K. From memory, 20 panels (on multiple rooves) and 10kWh battery was around £13.5K in the summer. You'll probably get more back with a battery in cash terms, but it does seem to be very dependent on other things. I just got a new car, but will get the PVs+battery in the spring. I think it's becoming a more realistic option for ordinary folk now

Maybe have a look at Myenergi too. They've started doing a whole-house package - solar for the roof, battery for the house, charger for the car, and diverter for hot water. I've got their Zappi 2 for car charging and it's a good product, and their support is top notch.

Goldstone1976 · Oct 15, 2024

Flounce said:
Because I’m a nosey fecker…

Pretty much the only reason I could think of…

Bozza · Oct 15, 2024

chip said:
Me too. Do the Octopus PV+Battery thing on their website, I think you'll find the PV only array is cheaper than £10K. From memory, 20 panels (on multiple rooves) and 10kWh battery was around £13.5K in the summer. You'll probably get more back with a battery in cash terms, but it does seem to be very dependent on other things. I just got a new car, but will get the PVs+battery in the spring. I think it's becoming a more realistic option for ordinary folk now

What sort of payback period would you expect from that £13.5k investment?

For those with EVs, charging their car at home will almost certainly be the biggest draw on power but currently that only costs around 7p/kWh. so there's only a limited saving to be made there.

Looking at our usage, at around 26p/kWh, and <10kWh/day on average, it feels like it's a long old slog to pay back. If you were able to disconnect from the grid completely, and save c50p/day standing charge then things speed up, but I can't imagine that's practical for most.

chip · Oct 15, 2024

Bozza said:
What sort of payback period would you expect from that £13.5k investment?

For those with EVs, charging their car at home will almost certainly be the biggest draw on power but currently that only costs around 7p/kWh. so there's only a limited saving to be made there.

Looking at our usage, at around 26p/kWh, and <10kWh/day on average, it feels like it's a long old slog to pay back. If you were able to disconnect from the grid completely, and save c50p/day standing charge then things speed up, but I can't imagine that's practical for most.

Do you want a long or short answer? I'd generally like my outgoings to be lower when I am older so reducing that has added value to me, also the notion of not being entirely dependent on the grid or price fluctuations. If I factor in an EV, which I am coming round to, and different requirements when I do hang up the chalk, 10 - 15 years. I have a long answer that involves my research side-hustle, involving energy arbitrage, emissions, EV battery reuse blah, that it feeds into my systems theory interests. The microvasculature is an energy grid.

However, one of the guides suggested that 8-12 years might be realistic. It might just be that I see it as more of a deposit account inventment than another ISA.

I been playing around with these ideas for years, it doesn't look like energy will come down but the kit has got better/cheaper. It's maybe at a sweet spot for me, but not all price related.

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[Technology] If you could afford it would your next car be an EV?

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