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[Politics] The Labour Government



jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,526
Forster's Armband said:
I don't think they doing a good job so far (sadly) but.

They took away the heating allowance from people who can afford not to have it (for the most part), they need to make sure if some fall through the cracks they catch them.

They increased School fees for private school kids (my son goes to a private school and I am ok with it) the key thing is that the money raised goes to help start repairing our neglected and crumbling (literally) state school system.

They have to raise taxes somewhere to try and get the economy to grow. No one in this country ever wants taxes raised but we all want a better standard of living and a growing economy, better services, and low interest rates.

They've made gaffs as well and I do worry that they are just serving up more of the same old shit. My hope/feeling is that they will gradually be more and more radical and come the next election the country will be in a better place. At the moment it isn't great though.
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My view is that they’ve actually done a little too much too soon. To repeat the same mantra again, when the loony Tories were in government, I said I want “boring people in grey suits doing steady, boring work”.

After 100-odd days, they’ve managed to frighten businesses, cut WFA stone dead, have one MP resign, Sue Gray forced out, and bottomed out their popularity in opinion polls.

And all that before we’ve even had a budget.

I thought they’d come in, see the year out with slow, steady change and showing the country they can govern sanely, give a modest budget and get to work with things slowly and surely starting in Spring.

Ironically it was Truss who tried to do too much too soon for the Tories and was immediately ousted as an incompetent (albeit she was a lot, LOT worse)
 






jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,526
pocketseagull said:
Wasn't really a case of too much too soon, more that her dream budget that increased borrowing to fund tax cuts for the wealthy was batshit
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Well yes, but doing it after a few weeks was particularly mental, was more my point. If only she’d focused more on those pork markets in Beijing.

My point remains. I think Labour have got in, had a whiff of vinegar and their knickers are around their ankles.

They need to shut up for a bit IMHO.
 




Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,952
Surrey
jcdenton08 said:
Well yes, but doing it after a few weeks was particularly mental, was more my point. If only she’d focused more on those pork markets in Beijing.

My point remains. I think Labour have got in, had a whiff of vinegar and their knickers are around their ankles.

They need to shut up for a bit IMHO.
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I'm not sure I agree with your point. If they had just sat through 2 or 3 years barely trying to address the current mess, they'd have been accused of exactly that in 5 years time. I'd rather they tried to make changes. Yes the WFA has been handled cack-handedly, but nevertheless it is something they needed to do. And actually, not much else can really be thrown at them yet. Sue Gray and the happy clappy rogue MP resigning will be fish and chip paper inside 3 months. The opinion polls are alarming but honestly I think this is a reflection on the fact that they weren't so much elected as the other lot booted out.

My feeling is that they aren't doing enough to address the mess the Tories left (the worst mess in living memory from any government, I'd say) and my worry is that despite the Tories seemingly moving even further right because of Reform, they might not get another term.
 




Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,952
Surrey
BenGarfield said:
Let them go, we don’t want their undue influence on politics
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It's all very well saying that, but it's not like these billionaires won't be leaving behind Talk TV, GB News and Fleet Street in the country, plus it'll only hand more power to the super rich who do stay.
 


BenGarfield

BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
347
crawley
Alth
jcdenton08 said:
My view is that they’ve actually done a little too much too soon. To repeat the same mantra again, when the loony Tories were in government, I said I want “boring people in grey suits doing steady, boring work”.

After 100-odd days, they’ve managed to frighten businesses, cut WFA stone dead, have one MP resign, Sue Gray forced out, and bottomed out their popularity in opinion polls.

And all that before we’ve even had a budget.

I thought they’d come in, see the year out with slow, steady change and showing the country they can govern sanely, give a modest budget and get to work with things slowly and surely starting in Spring.

Ironically it was Truss who tried to do too much too soon for the Tories and was immediately ousted as an incompetent (albeit she was a lot, LOT worse)
Click to expand...
Although I despise her politics , Truss should have stood her ground and withstood the machinations of the City
 


K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,792
hassocks
Peteinblack said:
After three months - whereas people were still sticking up for the Conservatives after 14 years of shithousery, you among them, I expect.
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Did they? Got battered at the last election, the only metric that really counts

But but but the Tories was only going to last a few months, even more so when they refuse to show the workings for it
 




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,185
West is BEST
BenGarfield said:
Alth

Although I despise her politics , Truss should have stood her ground and withstood the machinations of the City
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Huh?
She didn’t know anything about politics. She is a f***ing catastrophe. A calamitous dumpster fire of a human that in a few weeks managed to trash the economy for years.

She needed to be stopped.

Withstood the machinations of the city? Are you on glue!
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,773
Fiveways
Forster's Armband said:
I don't think they doing a good job so far (sadly) but.

They took away the heating allowance from people who can afford not to have it (for the most part), they need to make sure if some fall through the cracks they catch them.

They increased School fees for private school kids (my son goes to a private school and I am ok with it) the key thing is that the money raised goes to help start repairing our neglected and crumbling (literally) state school system.

They have to raise taxes somewhere to try and get the economy to grow. No one in this country ever wants taxes raised but we all want a better standard of living and a growing economy, better services, and low interest rates.

They've made gaffs as well and I do worry that they are just serving up more of the same old shit. My hope/feeling is that they will gradually be more and more radical and come the next election the country will be in a better place. At the moment it isn't great though.
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting.
It all comes down to whether you want public spending to stay where it is -- and as you intimate public services are on their knees after 14 years of neglect -- or to increase to start to repair that damage. If you favour the latter, then taxes need to rise. In my view, it's right that those with the broadest shoulders should take the higher burden. I've said on here a fair few times that it's tax-avoiding MNCs, assets and conspicuous and within that carbon-oriented consumption would be highest on my list.
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,773
Fiveways
jcdenton08 said:
My view is that they’ve actually done a little too much too soon. To repeat the same mantra again, when the loony Tories were in government, I said I want “boring people in grey suits doing steady, boring work”.

After 100-odd days, they’ve managed to frighten businesses, cut WFA stone dead, have one MP resign, Sue Gray forced out, and bottomed out their popularity in opinion polls.

And all that before we’ve even had a budget.

I thought they’d come in, see the year out with slow, steady change and showing the country they can govern sanely, give a modest budget and get to work with things slowly and surely starting in Spring.

Ironically it was Truss who tried to do too much too soon for the Tories and was immediately ousted as an incompetent (albeit she was a lot, LOT worse)
Click to expand...
Frighten business. Are you sure? Business seem to be relatively level-headed about what's in store, and might prefer the current lot to the prior incarnation when the PM put out the message to f%£k business.
The one MP that resigned is Rosie Duffield who won't be an MP in the next parliament, and likes to make a name for herself.
Sue Gray wasn't cut out for staying in the role, so it's right that she's been moved on after helping with the transition into government.
I suspect opinion polls will be all over the place for a while, especially vis-a-vis Labour.
And the budget will actually enable focus to train in on what this administration is going to do during the parliament, which will be a welcome shift from the phoney war we're in.
The last thing that they were going to do was to be slow: they've got an enormous task to turn around the steaming pile of mess they've inherited.
 




chip

chip

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
1,313
Glorious Goodwood
Weststander said:
They are already.

These aren’t just ‘Brits’ with a lifetime of ties here. Europeans, Yanks etc who came to live in the UK from the Blair years onwards, often professionals or executives.

Italy and other countries are accepting non doms with open arms. Other folk with wealth reacting similarly.

The IFS have mentioned this as a real thing. Suggesting an exit tax charge.
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FT cover this a lot. It seems that wealth managers have had increased inquiries, (behind paywall) https://www.ft.com/content/d34b9078-ab4e-4c7a-adf7-a5df81bba975

No figures on departures.
 




M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
10,233
saaf of the water
Machiavelli said:
Frighten business. Are you sure? Business seem to be relatively level-headed about what's in store, and might prefer the current lot to the prior incarnation when the PM put out the message to f%£k business.
The one MP that resigned is Rosie Duffield who won't be an MP in the next parliament, and likes to make a name for herself.
Sue Gray wasn't cut out for staying in the role, so it's right that she's been moved on after helping with the transition into government.
I suspect opinion polls will be all over the place for a while, especially vis-a-vis Labour.
And the budget will actually enable focus to train in on what this administration is going to do during the parliament, which will be a welcome shift from the phoney war we're in.
The last thing that they were going to do was to be slow: they've got an enormous task to turn around the steaming pile of mess they've inherited.
Click to expand...
Business needs clarity - Budget has taken FAR too long to happen.
 




Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,455
Sussex by the Sea
Machiavelli said:
And the budget will actually enable focus to train in on what this administration is going to do during the parliament, which will be a welcome shift from the phoney war we're in.
The last thing that they were going to do was to be slow: they've got an enormous task to turn around the steaming pile of mess they've inherited.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the 14 years and £22bn black hole?
Sounds like a good slogan.
Just like every single regime before, it's 'oh, what a mess we've been left'.
All the bloody same.
I must admit I was expecting a little better, at first.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,947
Bozza said:
That's quite a remarkable piece of writing.

It's remarkable because it claims to be "A roundup of the government’s work..." yet doesn't include the words "winter", "fuel" nor "payment".

It also doesn't include "pensioners frozen to death" but, in fairness, it's not got cold yet, so that will be for inclusion (or exclusion if you're putting together another puff piece) at the 200-day mark.
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😳

The article was (1) rounding up the major policy areas that had bills in the King’s Speech - and (2) it was not put together by me but by a Guardian journalist so the sarcastic and mocking response to my post is uncalled for really.
- I started a Labour Government thread initially for us all to objectively critique the first 100 days and the whole programme of Bills in this Parliamentary session but instead, some of us that voted Labour who have tried to engage with any such discussion have been repeatedly subject to ad hominem attacks with the agenda being dominated by a handful of people arguing about sleaze and the WFA for weeks now to the exclusion of just about anything else (despite no one actually agreeing with the latter‘s way of being implemented).

As such, I will back out again, I have absolutely no interest in getting embroiled in a polarised political argument especially with the owner of this fantastic site.
 


jcdenton08

jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,526
Zeberdi said:
😳

The article was (1) rounding up the major policy areas that had bills in the King’s Speech - and (2) it was not put together by me but by a Guardian journalist so the sarcastic and mocking response to my post is uncalled for really.
- I started a Labour Government thread initially for us all to objectively critique the first 100 days and the whole programme of Bills in this Parliamentary session but instead, some of us that voted Labour who have tried to engage with any such discussion have been repeatedly subject to ad hominem attacks with the agenda being dominated by a handful of people arguing about sleaze and the WFA for weeks now to the exclusion of just about anything else (despite no one actually agreeing with the latter‘s way of being implemented).

As such, I will back out again, I have absolutely no interest in getting embroiled in a polarised political argument especially with the owner of this fantastic site.
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I know you’ve spoken before about your issues relating to be on the spectrum, but as a watching third party, I can tell you objectively this is a complete overreaction to what was written to you. I understand when you’ve spoken about your condition before that you’ve struggled to relate certain things, so I’m hoping you find this helpful.

Edit: just to be clear; this is intended to be helpful not an attack. I enjoy your posts
 
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fly high

fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,727
in a house
Weststander said:
Obviously not directly on “staff” immediately. But then do employers, especially the many struggling eg in hospitality, throw in the towel, employ fewer staff and/or suppress later wage increases?

There’s no free tax lunch without consequences.

People shouldn’t see this in terms of Amazon or their own wealthy bosses. R4 said yesterday the UK restaurant business now is 20% lower than pre pandemic.
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Massively increases costs for public services too, NHS, education, councils, civil service etc. That has all got to paid so where does the money come to pay that? Does it just come out of the private sector & into public sector or will it be a backdoor cut to public sector spending.
 




M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,773
Fiveways
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Business needs clarity - Budget has taken FAR too long to happen.
Click to expand...
The reason why the budget is taking so long is that RR has committed to having the books and plans scrutinised by the OBR after Truss refused it and delivered on providing business with clarity. It didn't turn out well. Business and the rest of us will know in just over a fortnight.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,288
Withdean area
fly high said:
Massively increases costs for public services too, NHS, education, councils, civil service etc. That has all got to paid so where does the money come to pay that? Does it just come out of the private sector & into public sector or will it be a backdoor cut to public sector spending.
Click to expand...

Imho:
Council tax increased for higher bands.
IHT changes.
Reduce pension contributions tax relief, no longer 45% and 40%. I like the idea of a flat rate 30% for all. Fair and this simplifies admin.
 


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