[News] Middle East conflict

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D

de la zouch

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2007
572
Professor Plum said:
It absolutely is as it’s so indiscriminate. Some of the pagers are doubtless used by Hezbollah but from the reports so far, many were in the possession of innocent civilians, business people and children. Terrorism has many definitions but spreading fear and terror, and a lack of concern over innocent bystanders killed or injured, are key parts of most accepted definitions.
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It’s pagers we are talking about, random civilians didn’t have these pagers. They were supplied to and used by evil terrorists, who can now form a wonderful falsetto choir
 


herecomesaregular

herecomesaregular

We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Oct 27, 2008
4,656
Still in Brighton
Guinness Boy said:
It’s a long term tactic and very effective. Previously, their commanders were taken out from their phone GPS. So they switched to pagers. Now they can’t use them.

The collateral damage to this is innocent bystanders but a terrorist operation has been shut down.

This is reckless and possibly murder of bystanders by the IDF. But they might have shut down an entire terrorism modus operandi.

nAll of this why this cannot be binary or partisan.
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Eh? You really think this shuts them down? This isn't Game Over or anywhere near it.
 


P

Professor Plum

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 27, 2024
633
Guinness Boy said:
It’s a long term tactic and very effective. Previously, their commanders were taken out from their phone GPS. So they switched to pagers. Now they can’t use them.

The collateral damage to this is innocent bystanders but a terrorist operation has been shut down.

This is reckless and possibly murder of bystanders by the IDF. But they might have shut down an entire terrorism modus operandi.

All of this is why this cannot be binary or partisan.
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A short term gain at the expense of an even deeper rooted and widening sense of resentment and hatred in the region. Any idea that the Israeli government are working towards a ceasefire and an end to the conflict, is now well and truly out the window.
 




P

Professor Plum

Well-known member
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Jul 27, 2024
633
de la zouch said:
It’s pagers we are talking about, random civilians didn’t have these pagers. They were supplied to and used by evil terrorists, who can now form a wonderful falsetto choir
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You’ve no information on the wider distribution of the pagers beyond the core intended targets. It’s obvious from the reports coming in that the victims didn’t belong to one demographic. And even if they had done, think of the ‘collateral damage’ depending on where the device was stored, or who happened to be sitting next to the owner on a bus or in the market. It’s a a truly dreadful tactic.
 


aftershavedave

aftershavedave

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
7,166
as 10cc say, not in hove
Professor Plum said:
You’ve no information on the wider distribution of the pagers beyond the core intended targets. It’s obvious from the reports coming in that the victims didn’t belong to one demographic. And even if they had done, think of the ‘collateral damage’ depending on where the device was stored, or who happened to be sitting next to the owner on a bus or in the market. It’s a a truly dreadful tactic.
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See my post above. this fella is not an albion fan imo (not you mr plum)
 






Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
7,156
Professor Plum said:
You’ve no information on the wider distribution of the pagers beyond the core intended targets. It’s obvious from the reports coming in that the victims didn’t belong to one demographic. And even if they had done, think of the ‘collateral damage’ depending on where the device was stored, or who happened to be sitting next to the owner on a bus or in the market. It’s a a truly dreadful tactic.
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What is the information that you have and the rest of us don't?
 




Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,941
Guinness Boy said:
It’s a long term tactic and very effective. Previously, their commanders were taken out from their phone GPS. So they switched to pagers. Now they can’t use them.

The collateral damage to this is innocent bystanders but a terrorist operation has been shut down.

This is reckless and possibly murder of bystanders by the IDF. But they might have shut down an entire terrorism modus operandi.

All of this is why this cannot be binary or partisan.
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I agree completely with your last sentence but question that in bold.

If it were the case that taking out several thousand pagers has shut down ‘an entire mo’, there might be a military justification to this attack but I do have doubt they have shut down anything. In fact this could invoke a response from Iran or Yemen while Hezbollah regroup and re-equip. Just this week, Yemen launched a new type of long range missile into the heart of Israel that evaded the Iron dome and oil has already leaked into the waters of the Red Sea from an attacked oil tanker.

Because Israel is not fighting just Hamas in Gaza nor even a state army located in another geographical area but fighting non-state terrorist entities who share a similar ideology to brethren groups spread throughout the ME and Yemen - an all out war with Hezbollah could be devastating for the entire region. Hezbollah are a military strength receiving most of its equipment, training and funding from Iran and Syria and are likely the most heavily armed non-state group in the world.

When all sides to a conflict have a history of showing scant regard for civilian casualties in pursuit of their military objectives, it leaves little hope for civilian welfare in the event of escalation.

There are no winners in this conflict, just losers.

There’s nothing to celebrate here imo.

(EDIT - I should add only my first sentence and next paragraph was really directed at you/your post not the rest)
 
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Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
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Oct 20, 2022
6,941
de la zouch said:
No one is celebrating a child’s death
Hezbollah has fired 8000 rockets into Israel in the last year including one that killed many children playing football (where were your tears then) so they are at war. This war has the lowest rate of civilian deaths of any modern war.
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The tragic and very sad football incident wasn’t in ‘Israel’ any more than Gaza, East Jerusalem or the West Bank is in ‘Israel’ - it was in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights. At least apprise yourself of the facts.

As for the sentence in bold, I’m speechless (unless you were just referring to Israeli citizens)
 
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aftershavedave

aftershavedave

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
7,166
as 10cc say, not in hove
Zeberdi said:
The tragic and very sad football incident wasn’t in ‘Israel’ - it was in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights. At least apprise yourself of the facts.

As for the sentence in bold, I’m speechless (unless you were just referring to Israeli citizens)
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I have taken you off ignore to suggest that you are arguing with an Israeli plant. Just stop
 


chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,702
While sharing the amazement at the sheer chutzpah of the tactics used, I really wish Israel would consider likely collateral damage a little more. In all of their many conflicts, frankly.

They may have taken out some enemy operatives, but there’s a lot of innocent people who don’t deserve what’s happened out there tonight. It doesn’t feel like anyone’s winning to me.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,456
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Oh well done Israel, more escalation towards blowing the whole world up. f*** sake

God Britain has got so much to answer for. "Need to help the Jews find a Homeland after their persecution in Europe, where shall we put it? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere. OK, how about this densely populated part of the middle east, the holy land for three major religions? Excellent idea, that won't possibly go wrong. Back to mine for Pimms?"
 


heathgate

heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,868
Bozza said:
This is a remarkable story, isn't it?

The planning and sophistication needed to infiltrate a supply chain and implant thousands of pagers, that remain completely operational, with high-grade explosives, such that they can be made to all go BANG! at some point in the future.

That's quite something.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel says it killed senior Hezbollah figures in strike on Beirut

Lebanon's health ministry says 14 people were killed and dozens injured in the strike, as cross-border exchanges escalate.
www.bbc.co.uk
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I can't help but admire the audacity of the Israeli military... "We will get you, you can't hide from us"
 




heathgate

heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,868
Kalimantan Gull said:
Oh well done Israel, more escalation towards blowing the whole world up. f*** sake

God Britain has got so much to answer for. "Need to help the Jews find a Homeland after their persecution in Europe, where shall we put it? Anywhere in the world? Anywhere. OK, how about this densely populated part of the middle east, the holy land for three major religions? Excellent idea, that won't possibly go wrong. Back to mine for Pimms?"
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Dick, I assume that's your real name... blocked
 




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