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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......



Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,474
Withdean area
wouldn't that make their training take longer, to cover similar experience? they are paid additional for those hours too, the dispute mis-represented that, giving the first year basic pay without the shift and unsocial hours extras. and they go in eyes wide open, with ambitions of several decades career, taking on additional work, research etc. to pursue professional specialism.

I don't think they should work incredibly long shifts where their performance/wellbeing is running on empty. If that means lower 'overtime' pay, sobeit.

Eyes wide open ..... yes, they would know what lies ahead, but with a natural vocation for the medical world, they're kind of hostages to the system. I think we can do better.
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,377
Cumbria
That's a lot of examples, many thanks but I see what your really getting at is that you don't like people becoming successful and wealthy. If they get promoted to a job where they are responsible for a mind boggling turnover and in your Tescos example 300k+ employees then they absolutely should be earning top dollar. It's the way of the world whether you like it or not but it's private sector and really nothing to do with you and I. Public sector is though, as we directly fund everything through our taxes, if there was a huge surplus of cash then yes I'd support wage increases but there's not. There is a mammoth amount of wastage and never ending red tape that paralyses our public sector (and private too) if we addressed those then perhaps we could offer better pay to those who serve us.
We directly fund Tesco, and other companies through shopping / train fares / bills and so on. All their money starts with us. Of course it is something to do with you & me.
 
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nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,557
nowhere near Burgess Hill
We directly fund Tesco, and other companies through shopping / train fares / bills and so on. All their money starts with us. Of course it is something to do with you & me.
I knew someone would come back with this, the same thing then applies to every single company and wage in the world even our beloved Dunky.
 


portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,959
portslade
You don't seem to like workers getting deals that begin to claw back the huge sums they've lost over the past 14 years. Unless you've got private medical insurance, you might find that you're increasingly dependent on junior doctors, who are leaving for better deals elsewhere.
I worked in the private sector and also missed out on huge sums for the same reasons, will the Government make up my shortfall, I also don't get a final salary pension like most in the private sector
 


JetsetJimbo

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2011
1,171
I also don't get a final salary pension like most in the private sector

Lol I left the civil service 15 years ago and this wasn't even remotely true then, let alone now. Just an out-of-date cliche regurgitated from the kind of tabloid that sets out to leave its readers stupider than when they started reading it.
 












Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,377
Cumbria
I knew someone would come back with this, the same thing then applies to every single company and wage in the world even our beloved Dunky.
Yes - footballers are vastly overpaid. And it's our money on tickets, TV subscriptions and merchandise that pays for it.

£5 for a cup final ticket in 1983 adjusted for inflation would be something like £17 today. Cheapest was £45 last year. We're overpaying for others to benefit, we all know that.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,039
Defined benefit schemes are the norm in the public sector. Fact.
defined benefit in public sector will usually be better than most in private. people dont appreciate the employer contributions paid on their behalf, and the security of these schemes. have to be in large multi-nationals to get anything comparible, smaller business until recently often had nothing.
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,541
Sussex by the Sea
The pay rise doesn't seem to be over quite yet....

"The union's junior doctor co-leader, Dr Vivek Trivedi, told the BBC the deal had only started "to turn the tide on pay cuts".

He described it as a "compromise" - the BMA had been after a 35% pay rise to make up for what it says are 15 years of below-inflation pay awards.

He said in future years the expectation was that pay would continue going up above inflation - and if that did not happen the government needed to be “prepared for consequences”.

"It does mark the start of the journey, but the journey is not over."
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,474
Withdean area
defined benefit in public sector will usually be better than most in private. people dont appreciate the employer contributions paid on their behalf, and the security of these schemes. have to be in large multi-nationals to get anything comparible, smaller business until recently often had nothing.

Yes. Mrs.W’s NHS employer pays 20.8% of salary into her scheme. But even then employee and employer contributions are insufficient, a top up from the public purse of £8b a year to bridge the gap on funding public sector pensions.

Measures have periodically been taken to make it more sensible eg career average rather than final salary, also employee contributions have been upped.
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
48,476
SHOREHAM BY SEA
The pay rise doesn't seem to be over quite yet....

"The union's junior doctor co-leader, Dr Vivek Trivedi, told the BBC the deal had only started "to turn the tide on pay cuts".

He described it as a "compromise" - the BMA had been after a 35% pay rise to make up for what it says are 15 years of below-inflation pay awards.

He said in future years the expectation was that pay would continue going up above inflation - and if that did not happen the government and the public needed to be “prepared for consequences”.

"It does mark the start of the journey, but the journey is not over."
Slight amendment to what they said and should of
 






Paulie Gualtieri

Bada Bing
NSC Patron
May 8, 2018
10,682
Defined benefit schemes are the norm in the public sector. Fact.
Absolutely, my mum is retiring from the NHS in a few months after 27 years service on a DB scheme. They were putting c22% of her annual wage into the pot and only required her to increase her own contributions over the last 5 years to maintain the amount.

She’s citied the mismanagement and general incompetence of management as one of the reasons why she’s had enough and is walking away, despite enjoy the social side of the role.
 
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Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,377
Cumbria
Yes. Mrs.W’s NHS employer pays 20.8% of salary into her scheme. But even then employee and employer contributions are insufficient, a top up from the public purse of £8b a year to bridge the gap on funding public sector pensions.

Measures have periodically been taken to make it more sensible eg career average rather than final salary, also employee contributions have been upped.
The Local Government Pension Scheme is fully funded by members and employers. There is no shortfall and the scheme receives no top up of the type you mention.
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,848
Valley of Hangleton
:shrug:

Just sharing what I happen to have seen, in the spirit of Open Government. It’s not like I’ve divulged who the group admin is and who the members are…or repeated anything like “no wonder Bert’s f***ed off to Rome. I’d have done the same.”

Because that would be the wrong thing to do. Probably.
Bert is quite literally the biggest TOOL his father ever made
 


oxymoron

Active member
NSC Patron
Feb 25, 2011
184
Yet as ever, you never seem to object to the £ millions regularly paid to corporate bosses and shareholders. Bosses paid £ millions, but it's doctors, train drivers, refuse collectors, and the police who you accuse of being greedy.

Chairman of Tesco recently had his pay doubled to £10 million, while train drivers see their salaries increased (in some cases) to £65,000 - but its the train drivers, not the Tesco boss, who are denounced as greedy and selfish!

Tories really do despise ordinary working people; the proles should be seen, but not heard, and certainly not expect to enjoy pay rises which are only a fraction of what their bosses are regularly awarded.

And your Point ?
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,474
Withdean area


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,377
Cumbria
I didn't mention that scheme.

The public purse meets a shortfall on public sector pensions.
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/public-service-pension-payments-net/
No you didn't mention the LGPS. BUT - we are part of the public sector, and you said it was a shortfall on 'public sector pensions'. It's just one area of public sector pensions that have a shortfall.

I just get a bit fed up with being lumped into all the 'gold plater public sector pensions at taxpayer's expense' and 'way above inflation public sector pay rises'! (y)
 


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