[Football] Sutton United Ladies put their head above the parapet

Lenny Rider · Sep 2, 2024

Sutton call off women's game amid transgender goalkeeper controversy

The game, which had been scheduled to kick-off at 2pm, was called off after Sutton sent an email to their opponents at 11.12am informing them of their inability to field a team.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As Greavsie used to say “It’s a funny old game“

This one is clearly going to run and run, but as with the recent Olympic Boxing row, there has to be a level playing field, women have to only play against women surely?

stewart12 · Sep 2, 2024

Lenny Rider said:
Sutton call off women's game amid transgender goalkeeper controversy

The game, which had been scheduled to kick-off at 2pm, was called off after Sutton sent an email to their opponents at 11.12am informing them of their inability to field a team.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As Greavsie used to say “It’s a funny old game“

This one is clearly going to run and run, but as with the recent Olympic Boxing row, there has to be a level playing field, women have to only play against women surely?

this is a completely separate issue to the "Olympic Boxing row" which was about someone who was not trans.

what I will say on this issue is, having provided one to one support for many trans people, no one is going through a hugely invasive and long drawn out set of procedures just so that they can get a slight advantage from playing in goal for Ebbsfleet ladies- how much of a boost are they actually getting?

Deadly Danson · Sep 2, 2024

OP in divisive Daily Mail style post shocker. Let's all discuss this tiny tiny issue again that doesn't affect the vast majority of us, that is complex and sensitive and ignore the bigger issues.

PascalGroß Tips · Sep 2, 2024

stewart12 said:
this is a completely separate issue to the "Olympic Boxing row" which was about someone who was not trans.

what I will say on this issue is, having provided one to one support for many trans people, no one is going through a hugely invasive and long drawn out set of procedures just so that they can get a slight advantage from playing in goal for Ebbsfleet ladies- how much of a boost are they actually getting?

The trans woman 6 ft keeper plays for Sutton Utd and was signed by Sutton's new manager who is a trans woman ex ref with no experience in woman's football. Article suggests that it was a number of Sutton's own players that didn't want to play. It also states that the previous keeper was moved on when the new keeper was signed. Maybe the other woman see this as just a start. And maybe they think that women's football should just be for woman that haven't gone through male puberty and the physical advantages that gives.

m20gull · Sep 2, 2024

stewart12 said:
this is a completely separate issue to the "Olympic Boxing row" which was about someone who was not trans.

what I will say on this issue is, having provided one to one support for many trans people, no one is going through a hugely invasive and long drawn out set of procedures just so that they can get a slight advantage from playing in goal for Ebbsfleet ladies- how much of a boost are they actually getting?

It isn't completely separate. This is about male advantage in a female category. If there's no significant male advantage then you don't need female categories.

PascalGroß Tips · Sep 2, 2024

Deadly Danson said:
OP in divisive Daily Mail style post shocker. Let's all discuss this tiny tiny issue again that doesn't affect the vast majority of us, that is complex and sensitive and ignore the bigger issues.

It might not affect you - but maybe it affects women in sport?

stewart12 · Sep 2, 2024

At the time of her BBC interview, Hamilton had been undergoing hormone therapy for three years. 'They need to look at the science, what it actually does to your body,' she added.

'It does take away your muscle mass, your explosiveness. Your ratios from type-one to type-two fast-twitch fibres change - your body completely changes. I don't think they realise how much of a change hormone therapy makes.

'There is absolutely no advantage on the pitch.'

Curious Orange · Sep 2, 2024

To play in goal, depends on how tall they are surely? A 24' x 8' goal is enormous compared to your average 5'5" female.

MattBackHome · Sep 2, 2024

Deadly Danson said:
OP in divisive Daily Mail style post shocker. Let's all discuss this tiny tiny issue again that doesn't affect the vast majority of us, that is complex and sensitive and ignore the bigger issues.

Yeah I thought he was over this tbh.

PascalGroß Tips · Sep 2, 2024

stewart12 said:
At the time of her BBC interview, Hamilton had been undergoing hormone therapy for three years. 'They need to look at the science, what it actually does to your body,' she added.

'It does take away your muscle mass, your explosiveness. Your ratios from type-one to type-two fast-twitch fibres change - your body completely changes. I don't think they realise how much of a change hormone therapy makes.

'There is absolutely no advantage on the pitch.'

Sorry, but this doesn't take away the physical body changes that a person gets when going through male puberty. Why do you think so many top sports - cycling for example - have banned trans women from competing in women events.

And this from the Telegraph adds another twist.

Deadly Danson · Sep 2, 2024

PascalGroß Tips said:
It might not affect you - but maybe it affects women in sport?

Maybe it does - to a tiny tiny proportion and these issues can be resolved sensitively without everyone screaming at each other and further marginalising an already victimised group. I'm sick and tired of the nastiness.

PascalGroß Tips · Sep 2, 2024

Deadly Danson said:
Maybe it does - to a tiny tiny proportion and these issues can be resolved sensitively without everyone screaming at each other and further marginalising an already victimised group. I'm sick and tired of the nastiness.

This is about fairness for women - nothing to do with nastiness.

BBassic · Sep 2, 2024

I'm sure this thread will be full of nuance, understanding and reasoned debate.

I look forward to seeing its progress.

stewart12 · Sep 2, 2024

Deadly Danson said:
Maybe it does - to a tiny tiny proportion and these issues can be resolved sensitively without everyone screaming at each other and further marginalising an already victimised group. I'm sick and tired of the nastiness.

same- I'll duck out of this thread now, I can see the way it's going

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 2, 2024

Curious Orange said:
To play in goal, depends on how tall they are surely? A 21' x 8' goal is enormous compared to your average 5'5" female.

Also enormous to your average UK male at 5’ 10”

Deadly Danson · Sep 2, 2024

stewart12 said:
same- I'll duck out of this thread now, I can see the way it's going

Yep, I'm out too.

Curious Orange · Sep 2, 2024

Herr Tubthumper said:
Also enormous to your average UK male at 5’ 10”

Absolutely. I've corrected the goal size on my previous post btw - 24' x 8' - as I've been thinking about pitch/goal dimensions as Junior Orange is starting 11v11 this season, but I think they are still in the 21' x 7' goals. and 90-100 yard by 50-60 yard pitches for his age group.

m20gull · Sep 2, 2024

Deadly Danson said:
Maybe it does - to a tiny tiny proportion and these issues can be resolved sensitively without everyone screaming at each other and further marginalising an already victimised group. I'm sick and tired of the nastiness.

Could you suggest how this could be resolved sensitively to the former goalkeeper that has lost their place. Or is it OK because they are only part of a tiny, tiny proportion?

Kalimantan Gull · Sep 2, 2024

I hate this issue. Both sides have very valid points and it's just sad for the people involved. The trans woman wants to be a woman, as far as they are concerned they are a woman, and they want to play sport for the same reasons as the rest of us because of the fun, camaraderie, enjoyment, social and physical well being you get from sport.

At the same time people play sport to win, and it's totally understandable they see the unfairness of someone born a biological male lining up against them. If the player was rubbish (like a trans girl in my daughters team) no one cares, but yes, I agree it's unfair. But the individual then gets excluded from sport altogether and that's sad, moreso because they're probably going through a lot in life as it is. There's no winners here, just vulnerable people being used as political footballs.

m20gull · Sep 2, 2024

stewart12 said:
At the time of her BBC interview, Hamilton had been undergoing hormone therapy for three years. 'They need to look at the science, what it actually does to your body,' she added.

'It does take away your muscle mass, your explosiveness. Your ratios from type-one to type-two fast-twitch fibres change - your body completely changes. I don't think they realise how much of a change hormone therapy makes.

'There is absolutely no advantage on the pitch.'

That final paragraph does not follow from the previous one.

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[Football] Sutton United Ladies put their head above the parapet

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