[TV] UKIP: The First 100 days. Channel 4 - 9:00PM

[Deleted member 22389]

A group of around 20 Romanians settled in Grimsby in 2003 , being indefinite leave to stay after claiming asylum. AFAIK none of the adults have ever worked since they arrived.

That's the problem isn't it and where these stupid EU rules have got in the way on this occasion. They shouldn't get a single penny from our system. We all go to work to earn money and getting benefits should be no different, you need to earn it.
So a group of 20 probably claiming full benefits I presume. 20 people who shouldn't be here in the first place, saving money which could be put to good use or paid to someone who really needs it.

 

[Soulman]

That's the problem isn't it and where these stupid EU rules have got in the way on this occasion. They shouldn't get a single penny from our system. We all go to work to earn money and getting benefits should be no different, you need to earn it.
So a group of 20 probably claiming full benefits I presume. 20 people who shouldn't be here in the first place, saving money which could be put to good use or paid to someone who really needs it.

Just "beggars " belief in more ways than one.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

That's the problem isn't it and where these stupid EU rules have got in the way on this occasion. They shouldn't get a single penny from our system. We all go to work to earn money and getting benefits should be no different, you need to earn it.
So a group of 20 probably claiming full benefits I presume. 20 people who shouldn't be here in the first place, saving money which could be put to good use or paid to someone who really needs it.

The ironic thing is they are no longer refugees who escaped ethnic persecution , they've become EU nationals.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

You must be mad or stupid; do you actually think those who vote for SinnFein want no more than power devolved from the HoC...................is that what you think the troubles were about?

Sorry to lay this surpise on you however the current status quo is merely the current means to their ultimate political end, and it won't be for NI to remain part of GB or be an independent state.

Little wonder you are confused about why people vote for UKIP.

The situation has moved on from the trouble's to the extent that Sinn Fein have accepted the need to work within the Northern Ireland Assembly, and with their (many) Political Opponents. I think they deserve at least some credit for that. You still seem to think they are 'the bogeyman'.

If enough NI voters choose Sinn Fein MLA's to force through a motion asking for an independence referendum, just as Alistair Salmon wanted for Scotland, then only the serving Westminster Government can stop them. Personally I don't think trying to stop them would be worth paying the price ( which would be counted in human misery once all the old tensions were stirred up ).

They could never win that referendum, kiling the issue off once and for all. Because of that, I believe they have achieved all they can reasonably hope to. They realise that too. Just as the Lib Dems realise they can't form a majority Government alone.

The arrangement we now have (however precarious) is infinitely preferable to a Ukraine style split. Again I think you have to give all parties, including Sinn Fein, credit for that.

 

[Gwylan]

the main parties have only ever been pro-EU which has always produced the ever wrong statement from pro-EU'ers "Well people have always voted for the main parties so the EU can't be much of an issue".

Not true. The Labour Party's 1983 election manifesto advocated withdrawal from the EU (or EEC as it was then). It led to the lowest Labour vote since the war

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Not true. The Labour Party's 1983 election manifesto advocated withdrawal from the EU (or EEC as it was then). It led to the lowest Labour vote since the war

I'd suggest that was mainly due to their leader being Michael Foot rather than their policy on the EEC.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Just "beggars " belief in more ways than one.

Things have got to change. Why we still wasting money on providing interpreters. An expense that could be better used.
http://www.lewes.gov.uk/community/1450.asp

Translation bill for the NHS from 2012, 23 million. Again the money could be better used
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16905491

https://audioboom.com/boos/2796113-...d-pigeons-communities-sec-eric-pickles#t=0m0s

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Not true. The Labour Party's 1983 election manifesto advocated withdrawal from the EU (or EEC as it was then). It led to the lowest Labour vote since the war

Michael Foot wearing his donkey jacket to the Remembrance Day parade at The Cenotaph in November 1981 didn't help too.

 

[GT49er]

I'd suggest that was mainly due to their leader being Michael Foot rather than their policy on the EEC.

It was exactly that.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Rather out there examples in reality as you can join both the Conservatives and the CP Season Ticket club just by paying your membership fees. You have to be democratically elected to the European Parliament. A vast majority of those that voted UKIP in those elections did with the full knowledge of how UKIP act there - it's once of the reasons I voted for them. It is much easier to bring down an organisation from within by exposing its corrupt underbelly with inside knowledge.

Besides, the main parties have only ever been pro-EU which has always produced the ever wrong statement from pro-EU'ers "Well people have always voted for the main parties so the EU can't be much of an issue".

You can have one of two options :
a) An EU with Britain In.
b) An EU with Britain Out.

The option of c) No EU at all, is a fallacy that will never happen and let's face it, no EU = no Franco/German rapprochment = no end of trouble........

I'm very sorry if my 'Realpolitik' worries you, but history is littered with one country invading another.

Now here's the bit you might not want to remember.

Shock, horror, Britain is pretty culpable when it comes to starting wars. It's how we got most of our Empire in the first place. If it wasn't the Spanish, it was the French, or the Austrians, or the Ottomans (Turks to you), or the Pope.

We need something that promotes dialogue without resorting to armed conflict. We've been very fortunate in not being invaded for many a century, that doesn't mean we can't attempt to get along (and learn the lessons from) those that have.

 

[cunning fergus]

The situation has moved on from the trouble's to the extent that Sinn Fein have accepted the need to work within the Northern Ireland Assembly, and with their (many) Political Opponents. I think they deserve at least some credit for that. You still seem to think they are 'the bogeyman'.

If enough NI voters choose Sinn Fein MLA's to force through a motion asking for an independence referendum, just as Alistair Salmon wanted for Scotland, then only the serving Westminster Government can stop them. Personally I don't think trying to stop them would be worth paying the price ( which would be counted in human misery once all the old tensions were stirred up ).

They could never win that referendum, kiling the issue off once and for all. Because of that, I believe they have achieved all they can reasonably hope to. They realise that too. Just as the Lib Dems realise they can't form a majority Government alone.

The arrangement we now have (however precarious) is infinitely preferable to a Ukraine style split. Again I think you have to give all parties, including Sinn Fein, credit for that.

This is all very well, however you have not provided any explaination why people vote Sinn Fein? I note you give the party "credit" which is interesting given your contempt for UKIP, however that may say more about your political outlook than mine.

 

[GT49er]

You can have one of two options :
a) An EU with Britain In.
b) An EU with Britain Out.

The option of c) No EU at all, is a fallacy that will never happen and let's face it, no EU = no Franco/German rapprochment = no end of trouble........

Nonsense. France and Germany (and anybody else who wants to) can stay in the EU. An EU with Britain out does not mean the end of the EU, just that we wouldn't be part of it any more. And I don't think there's much danger of us starting another war with Germany, or them with us.

 

[Buzzer]

The option of c) No EU at all, is a fallacy that will never happen and let's face it, no EU = no Franco/German rapprochment = no end of trouble........

I'm very sorry if my 'Realpolitik' worries you, but history is littered with one country invading another.We need something that promotes dialogue without resorting to armed conflict. We've been very fortunate in not being invaded for many a century, that doesn't mean we can't attempt to get along (and learn the lessons from) those that have.

Sorry...are you saying that without the EU, that modern democratic Germany and modern democratic France can't be trusted not to go to war with each other? Also I'm a little confused as to why you even bring up the option of no EU at all. UKIP want us out of the EU (I agree with them although am not nor will ever be a UKIP voter) and thereafter whatever the EU decide to do isn't our concern. I really don't care.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

[jakarta]

UKIP want us out of the EU (I agree with them although am not nor will ever be a UKIP voter) and thereafter whatever the EU decide to do isn't our concern. I really don't care.

Don't you realise that the EU would immediately close their borders and refuse to trade with us thus bringing us to our knees in weeks if not days.......































Just like they currently do with Norway and Switzerland....

 

[Gwylan]

I'd suggest that was mainly due to their leader being Michael Foot rather than their policy on the EEC.

But that's not the point: you said that no major party had advocated EU withdrawal and one quite explicitly did

Don't you realise that the EU would immediately close their borders and refuse to trade with us thus bringing us to our knees in weeks if not days.......

Just like they currently do with Norway and Switzerland....

But that's a bit of a false comparison: UKIP's beef with the EU is that it costs the UK dear and we have to abide by EU rules: the implication being that the EU will do neither. Both Norway and Switzerland contribute to the EU (Norway pays more per head than we do, I believe) and both abide by the same EU regulations that we do.

It may well be nonsense that the EU would shut up shop if we withdrew but to use Norway and Switzerland as examples is equally nonsensical

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Don't you realise that the EU would immediately close their borders and refuse to trade with us thus bringing us to our knees in weeks if not days.....
Just like they currently do with Norway and Switzerland....

The EU pen pushers might refuse to trade with us, but at the end of the day I'm sure the companies would have the real say in what happens. You telling me if we pulled out of the EU a company like Fiat would suddenly stop sending us their cars to sell? The EU needs us more than we need them.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But that's not the point: you said that no major party had advocated EU withdrawal and one quite explicitly did

As I wasn't able to vote in that election it would have been hard to voice my opinion at the ballot box. Since 1988 ( when I could first vote ) not a single one of the main parties has allowed me a vote of the changing EU. So until this up and coming election I've gone 27 years without a proper say on the subject. How democratic .... not. Even now Milliband doesn;t want me to have a say.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Michael Foot wearing his donkey jacket to the Remembrance Day parade at The Cenotaph in November 1981 didn't help too.

Ah, the notorious 'donkey jacket' - an urban myth.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7361078/Michael-Foot-and-the-donkey-jacket-that-wasnt.html

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Ah, the notorious 'donkey jacket' - an urban myth.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7361078/Michael-Foot-and-the-donkey-jacket-that-wasnt.html

To be fair it did look like he had borrowed it from a miner and ripped off the orange NCB sign from the back