[Football] Why fewer bums on seats at PL games?

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've been lucky enough to be able to go to Oz a few times in the past decade. Never crossed my mind not to leave my physical ST card in the hands of a trusted friend to pass on to an equally trusted friendwho probably otherwise wouldn't have been able to go. I actually thought I was doing the club a favour. Guest fills seat, guest buys stuff. I get it that in times of Covid the Albion have to be able to track and trace every individual person in the stadium. It's the hefty surcharges that really grate.Like very many others, I won't bother next time. Seat can stay empty, sadly

 

[Weststander]

KO times for me is a real bummer, but I’m probably not ‘into’ the Albion of late as most of you.

I like my Saturday evenings free. I’d rather be at home or perhaps going out, than the 4 hour outing of walk to park n ride etc.

If my son wants to jack it in when he returns from uni, summer 24, I’ll happily end the st’s.


An overall point - the attraction of watching games on BT/Sky/Amazon, a zero commute, in the warm …. is very attractive.


Attending every single game seems to be for-
- real fanatics.
- or boozers, who go for the alcohol craic with family or mates.

 

[A1X]

The stupid thing about the Exchange only is it was initially sold as "because we need to ensure we're Covid compliant and passports", which is fine and understandable in that context.

But I've never had my pass checked and have never seen anyone else having theirs checked either. I even turned up about 2 minutes before kick off to WSL last time out, walked straight through the turnstiles where there were five staff and my phone was out, and even THEN it wasn't checked.

 

[Bozza]

I've been lucky enough to be able to go to Oz a few times in the past decade. Never crossed my mind not to leave my physical ST card in the hands of a trusted friend to pass on to an equally trusted friendwho probably otherwise wouldn't have been able to go. I actually thought I was doing the club a favour. Guest fills seat, guest buys stuff. I get it that in times of Covid the Albion have to be able to track and trace every individual person in the stadium. It's the hefty surcharges that really grate.Like very many others, I won't bother next time. Seat can stay empty, sadly

The "track and trace every individual" theory falls down with the upgrade option.

I could upgrade my son's ticket to full adult and give it to absolutely anyone at all to use. At no point do I have to provide a fan number, name or address. The occupant of that seat is anonymous to the club.

 

[Happy Exile]

I think there's some potential selective attendance too even for those with season tickets possibly for all the reasons given and people weighing up the COVID risk/benefits of going. There are seats near me that have been empty for Watford, Newcastle and Leeds, arguably the less glamorous games, but have the same two people in them for all others. (Not wanting to start a debate about leaving early, those two people tend to miss about 25 minutes of every game between arriving late, going down for half time early, and leaving 10-15 minutes before the final whistle - again, possibly avoiding crowded indoor areas.)

 

[chaileyjem]

they'd had to have paid £50 between them to do so. I resolved it was just too much hassle to try and work stuff out, so I didn't knock on his door to see if he could make it. It feels so wasteful.

I just went to check what the terms were for Albion + members and have noticed that they've reduced the price to £15 for kids and adults. (as the free charger gubbins stuff no longer seems to be included)

 

[tigertim68]

Bollocks, I'd not even considered that - I've got a decision to make!

Watching the Albion or F1 , you can’t be serious ,

 

[amexer]

Late on, I was offered 1901 tickets for the Leeds game, which [MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] and I took up.

This meant, a few hours before kick-off, my pair of tickets in the WSU weren't being used. I could see my next door neighbour was in, as his car was parked outside his house, and I know his son is a burgeoning Albion fan. Previously, I'd have gone and knocked on his door and asked if he wanted to use my tickets. I had a space in The Bridge, so could have given them a lift there and back too. Easy peasy - everyone's a winner.

This season though? Even if them having to join the Albion as a member is possible on the day (is it?), they'd had to have paid £50 between them to do so. I resolved it was just too much hassle to try and work stuff out, so I didn't knock on his door to see if he could make it. It feels so wasteful.

Yes but didnt PB talk over with you what he wanted to do and you agreed with it.
Apart from those for financial or cant attend all games sharing a ticket the system is wrong. Hopefully will see all games so does not effect me but every game see it is a problem for many

 

[rippleman]

Understandably PB will be delighted all games all but sold out. However think he should be giving thought to whether people not attending and unable to pass ticket on will renew next season.

But they aren't really sold out are they? Surely most fans can see empty seats.

The games appear to be sold out because Barber doesn't understand the word "attendance" and artificially inflates the figures.

The club should have worked with Southern to put on more trains with greater capacity. Being crammed in trains with a load of mask-dodgers is not many peoples idea of fun.

The KO times have been totally crap but our club, and the EPL in general, don't give a shit about the convenience of fans. The "tv companies dictate KO times" is just a get out. The EPL is one of the biggest TV products in the world. It is in huge demand so the EPL clubs could dictate terms to Sky & BTSport around kick-off times if they wanted to.

It may seem petty but Barber's shopping bag ban creates a lot of inconvenience for me too. Just another reason to think "it's cold and I really can't be arsed." At least if Barber hadn't got greedy and decided to rinse us for a fee to pass over our ticket to a friend or family member, I'm sure there wouldn't be anywhere near the number of empty seats.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The "track and trace every individual" theory falls down with the upgrade option.

I could upgrade my son's ticket to full adult and give it to absolutely anyone at all to use. At no point do I have to provide a fan number, name or address. The occupant of that seat is anonymous to the club.

That's a major bit of loophole right there. Mind The Gap!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

not being able to easily share your season ticket is definitely why crowd are so low at the Amex, was ill last game and meant no one could take my kids so 3 empty seats where as last season I'd have given ticket to my Dad/mate or sister. its terrible what is going on this season ! And with every game being on TV (apart from 1) I can see a lot no renewing next season. Shame PB and the board have got this so wrong.

With two brothers with the same mental health issues as me, getting them to play ball over downloading the covid pass and putting the ticket on their phone (one of them refuses to carry a phone and the other has the equivalent of one that BG threw away 10 years ago, bless them both) means that neither have joined me via my second ST this season. My son (who is neuro typical) has no problem joining me, but he is not always available so I have wasted my second ticket a couple of times this season. I can imagine that you are right about the clamp down on casual ticket sharing among close pals and family. For some it is just too much of a faff*.

I feel very 'covid safe' at the Amex (probably delusionally so) and am triple jabbed, and drive so avoiding the train madness. I am even likely to attend the ludicrous Boxing evening debacle. It will be Covid that keeps me away, though. If omicron turns out to be even 50% as lethal as ordinary flu, but rabidly virulent (to mix metaphores in a rather grotesque fashion), I'm out. Let's not be silly, and all that

*Incidentally if I posted about falling out with middle brother over the ticketing 'faff' and the subsequent row about politics, I phoned him at the weekend and he'd forgotten all about the row ("I was probably drunk" - no you weren't - it was ten in the morning, you clown) and all is back to our customary conviviality. I had been fretting about that for weeks

 

[dsr-burnley]

Playing back the highlights of Saturday there are loads of blocks of empty seats at Saints, even more than I noticed on the day. Burnley always looks half empty on the telly. We are certainly seeing far fewer actual fans than our tickets sold. Even Villa where you couldn't see a spare seat for Stevie G's debut against us had a few blocks of noticeable empties on Sunday.

Why do we think this is? If data was collected on actual people at games instead of ticket sales it'd be a noticeable decline I reckon.

Part of the reason Burnley's ground looks half empty is because the camera is in the busiest, largest stand and the pictures are of the smaller and emptier stands. Especially the Jimmy McIlroy lower behind the goal, where the weather is atrocious. I believe we're about 3,000 ticket holders below the last full season, though.

Natural wastage is a lot of it. I have been told, though I can't provide a link, that as a rule of thumb football clubs lose 10% of their season ticket holders each season. And obviously, if crowds are constant, they gain 10% as well. so we had a year off - there is every chance that the 10% fall becomes 15% because of people who realise they can do without football after all. And there is every chance that the 10% new supporters becomes 5%, because after all, you can't get into the matchday experience from watching the telly. So as a result, one year with no fans results in a 10% drop in support.

 

[studio150]

For my son who travels down from London, it's the 5,30 games as he then has a decision around social commitments given the time he would get back after the Amex game.
For me it will be having to isolate due to covid although I think you're more likely to catch covid watching football in a pub than at the Amex.

 

[Bozza]

Yes but didnt PB talk over with you what he wanted to do and you agreed with it.
Apart from those for financial or cant attend all games sharing a ticket the system is wrong. Hopefully will see all games so does not effect me but every game see it is a problem for many

Absolutely, yes - it was one of the things the club floated with me and, I assume, others and I thought it to be a fair, equitable and pragmatic approach to enable STHs to share their tickets when they were unable to attend.

Like others though, in practice, it feels to me like it adds too much friction/expense and leads to some seats being empty that otherwise would not be.

 

[BNthree]

The "track and trace every individual" theory falls down with the upgrade option.

I could upgrade my son's ticket to full adult and give it to absolutely anyone at all to use. At no point do I have to provide a fan number, name or address. The occupant of that seat is anonymous to the club.

Given the number of matches where it's possible to buy 2 or more tickets per fan number or buy season ticket guest tickets (both options which don't get the details of those attending) the track and trace excuse is utter nonsense.

 

[Blazing Apostle]

I had a Season tkt for first few seasons at the Amex then due to work started going to fewer games - pre covid started to go to the odd game with my youngest daughter but just too expensive. She wanted to take her boyfriend to an Albion game this season but far too complicated to get tkts so they have started going up to watch Fulham instead - tbh I can't see me taking my grandson to the Albion in the near future and planning to try out going to watch Worthing FC in the New Year. Its a shame

 

[seagull77]

I had been a ST holder for about 8 years at the Amex and just started to get worn down by the club making (in my opinion) EVERYTHING more difficult hence I didn't renew......no caps on bottles, no large bags, the feeling in my opinion of getting ripped off for drinks and food (yes I don't have to buy them), making me move away from my family stand seats into the corner so they can make more money. It's all about money, and the salaries for footballers that are not in touch with the real world. We seem to have lost an identify and for me, chasing that premier league dream was the best bit for me. Being in the premier league if of course great, but am I going to shell out 50 quid a ticket - which by the time you have a couple of peole, food and drinks you are approaching 200 quid......

 

[amexer]

Absolutely, yes - it was one of the things the club floated with me and, I assume, others and I thought it to be a fair, equitable and pragmatic approach to enable STHs to share their tickets when they were unable to attend.

Like others though, in practice, it feels to me like it adds too much friction/expense and leads to some seats being empty that otherwise would not be.

Hopefully now you have seen the negative effect of this system you will convey to PB

 

[Weststander]

Part of the reason Burnley's ground looks half empty is because the camera is in the busiest, largest stand and the pictures are of the smaller and emptier stands. Especially the Jimmy McIlroy lower behind the goal, where the weather is atrocious. I believe we're about 3,000 ticket holders below the last full season, though.

Natural wastage is a lot of it. I have been told, though I can't provide a link, that as a rule of thumb football clubs lose 10% of their season ticket holders each season. And obviously, if crowds are constant, they gain 10% as well. so we had a year off - there is every chance that the 10% fall becomes 15% because of people who realise they can do without football after all. And there is every chance that the 10% new supporters becomes 5%, because after all, you can't get into the matchday experience from watching the telly. So as a result, one year with no fans results in a 10% drop in support.

Burnley’s crowds stand out as exemplary, relative to a 149k population of the wider built up area (per wiki).

Great stats:
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/burn.htm

To benchmark, Brighton to Worthing is 474k, in a county almost all to ourselves of 1.7m.

 

[amexer]

Burnley’s crowds stand out as exemplary, relative to a 149k population of the wider built up are (per wiki).

Great stats:
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/burn.htm

To benchmark, Brighton to Worthing is 474k, in a county almost all to ourselves of 1.7m.

Very interesting. Have you one for Brighton attendances over the years