Why dont the Americans mind their own F*cking Business?

[NMH]

I suppose in your warped world it is possible to go round in circles when you've only made a total of TWO posts, but it is a concept I struggle with.

You've made some very inaccurate and simplistic statements about a history you seem to have only a kindergarten (oops) grasp of. I noted with interest your description of someone else's (far more informed) posts as "Bluster and bullshit" - ha!

You call 'informed', the littering of a long missive with exaggerations that only serve to twist truth, so that (once again) someone can make some spluttering arrogant line that omits all other factors, like "without America we'd all be speaking German.

Well since I am beginning to warm to this practice, I will join in;

Without the British, Americans would be speaking Dutch or French.

In case you haven't noticed, America speaks English. As does the bigger country in the north, who oddly don't seem to share the same arrogance.

Now get back to school yourself, idiot.

 

[NMH]

Well said. My Dad spent the majority of his war on North Atlantic convoys with the Royal Navy.

Same here. He was an officer in the Royal Navy.
Got torpedoed in the Med once by a U-Boat, but they ran the ship aground, patched her up (dobied canvas over the huge hole) and limped to a place where they could perform repairs (probably Malta)

 

[twickers]

Let's get 'a)' sorted out right now mate; if WE hadn't declared war against Germany - THEY would be speaking German! Joe Kennedy was an 'ally' of Hitler, a full-on admirer, and he was a powerful American. He didn't like the English, as it happens. That the tiny country of Japan gave the USA a bit of a runaround intimates that just maybe, if Hitler had carte blanche over Europe (which he basically DID, except for us) and he, and Mussolini, and Stalin - had wanted to just run the northern hemisphere, they could have easily done it whether the Americans approved or not. Would Hitler have allowed for an autonomous power without any German influence, without it being a complete alliance run by His Truly? It would have been a very different world, and the recently UNITED States would have erupted to eradicate all Jews and Negros - echoes of pre-civil war America.

His treatment of Poland doesn't suggest his hunger for ownership would be satiated by countries acceding to simple alliance - it would have to be fascism or nothing - and I doubt there'd have been a sharing of power.

The British got stuck in, like bulldogs, and the US took their sweet time while we held against the might of Germany and Hitler's allies. They had to be coaxed and cajoled, and convinced.

So, before the cavalry congratulate themselves for coming in at the right moment, and lest some forget - these Isles were stoutly defended in the air sea and beaches by some real heroes - and against huge odds.

I'm afraid we can't be rich on that one mate, the Church of England were full supporters of Hitler as were most British institutions until it became apparent we ought perhaps think of the future.

 

[twickers]

You call 'informed', the littering of a long missive with exaggerations that only serve to twist truth, so that (once again) someone can make some spluttering arrogant line that omits all other factors, like "without America we'd all be speaking German.

Well since I am beginning to warm to this practice, I will join in;

Without the British, Americans would be speaking Dutch or French.

In case you haven't noticed, America speaks English. As does the bigger country in the north, who oddly don't seem to share the same arrogance.

Now get back to school yourself, idiot.

Holy moly, what happened to this thread? I put my hand up and apologise now, I thought it was a light hearted and generalistic thread, but clearly I should not have used the "because we'd all be speaking German" argument. It's not true, I don't beleive it and it's not as simple as The War was more than British and Americans anyway as we all know. I've got a deep English family history as far as the war is concerned I in no way intended to undermine the efforts and sacrafices they made, I just don't have an issue with the Americans per se, nor the French, Belgiums, Irish and so on. Every coountry needs an ally, today and tomorrow.

 

[NMH]

Holy moly, what happened to this thread? I put my hand up and apologise now, I thought it was a light hearted and generalistic thread, but clearly I should not have used the "because we'd all be speaking German" argument. It's not true, I don't beleive it and it's not as simple as The War was more than British and Americans anyway as we all know. I've got a deep English family history as far as the war is concerned I in no way intended to undermine the efforts and sacrafices they made, I just don't have an issue with the Americans per se, nor the French, Belgiums, Irish and so on. Every coountry needs an ally, today and tomorrow.

And where do you read that I don't like Americans??

Allies yes, and without them we would have been in deep deep shit.

My point is just made against this concept that the Americans were sole saviours of everyone's skins. It was their war too, and that they brought it TO Hitler instead of waiting for it to come to them was to their credit - otherwise there's little doubt they'd have been in shit too.
If we gave in right at the start, or been 'neutral', or lost for our part at the start of WWII - that was Europe done and dusted - and would America have been next?
Damn right it would.

 

[twickers]

And where do you read that I don't like Americans??

Allies yes, and without them we would have been in deep deep shit.

My point is just made against this concept that the Americans were sole saviours of everyone's skins. It was their war too, and that they brought it TO Hitler instead of waiting for it to come to them was to their credit - otherwise there's little doubt they'd have been in shit too.
If we gave in right at the start, or been 'neutral', or lost for our part at the start of WWII - that was Europe done and dusted - and would America have been next?
Damn right it would.

Actually I'm calling time on you pal, you're something of the provocateur here and you've demonstrated that again with your opening..."And where do you read that I don't like Americans"...you know damn well that I haven't even insinuated that you don't like Americans. You've chosen to either interpret that or simply be a curmudgeonly git. Simirlarly, and forgive me if someone has, but I don't read that anyone said Americans were sole saviours. I take on board most of your sentiments, but I red card your cantankerous approach to this thread.

 

[leonidas]

I'm afraid we can't be rich on that one mate, the Church of England were full supporters of Hitler as were most British institutions until it became apparent we ought perhaps think of the future.

I think that is an important part of the dilema this country faced at the time. We, as a capitalist country saw the spread of communism as the greatest threat and the rise of Hitler was seen as a bastion against the athiest communists.

Its not as straight foreward as some people think. When Germany invaded Poland, so did Russia. Churchill wanted to declare war on both of them as it was the second country Hitler had attacked, the other one was of course Checkoslovakia, but it was the 6th country Stalin had attacked, being Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Romania where Bessarabia was annexed.

So considering that a lot of capitalists and religious organisations saw Hitler as the defender of all things good and Stalin as the anti christ, going to war with the Germans was not as simple or straightforeward as it looks in hindsight.

 

[acrossthepond]

 

[NMH]

Actually I'm calling time on you pal, you're something of the provocateur here and you've demonstrated that again with your opening..."And where do you read that I don't like Americans"...you know damn well that I haven't even insinuated that you don't like Americans. You've chosen to either interpret that or simply be a curmudgeonly git. Simirlarly, and forgive me if someone has, but I don't read that anyone said Americans were sole saviours. I take on board most of your sentiments, but I red card your cantankerous approach to this thread.

Apologies, I took the general sentiment in your post (BECAUSE you quoted mine!) as distancing yourself from some kind of perceived anti-US sentiment - and mostly in the line "I just don't have an issue with the Americans per se, nor the French, Belgiums, Irish and so on. Every country needs an ally, today and tomorrow" - as suggesting that I do have an issue.

The rest of my post was also generally pertinent to the overall sentiment in the thread - exacerbated by such as 'acrossthepond' (who qualifies right-to-opinion by the number of posts you make in the beginning of a thread).

I do take exception at off-the-cuff anti-American sentiments, just as much as overblown and misguiding sweeping statements from anyone who wants to suggest we simply wouldn't exist, without their grace.

 

[glasfryn]

Because if they did
a) historically we'd probably be speaking German
b) world threats aside it makes for a good economy
c) most of the great technical advances have been brought about from military R&D and Joe Public needs a reason to spend his tax on this so someone needs to bang the drum and make the reasons clear
d) nobody else really likes a small arrogant island with shite weather, piss poor food, tiny little brick houses with small gardens, abysmal public transport, a crap national football team and monarchy that doesn't do much...but the Americans love it. God bless them and their dollar, which by the way makes us going to America great value.

That's why.

and they don't make their women walk behind them
have public executions
drag peoples bodies around in cars before killing them
indoctrinate schoolchildren to act as suicide bombers
hide behind their women and children after stoning our troops
indoctrinate our own youth to kill us in our own country
ect,ect

on the other hand I do know some British moslems and they are very nice people and one or two rather like the yanks.

 

[leonidas]

and they don't make their women walk behind them
have public executions
drag peoples bodies around in cars before killing them
indoctrinate schoolchildren to act as suicide bombers
hide behind their women and children after stoning our troops
indoctrinate our own youth to kill us in our own country
ect,ect

on the other hand I do know some British moslems and they are very nice people and one or two rather like the yanks.

I thought we were talking about the Muslims, not the IRA?

 

[acrossthepond]

It’s like groundhog day…

You just can't help it can you NMH, misrepresenting things again? In the same way as I challenged you to name that British beach the Germans came ashore on (still waiting btw), I challenge you to show me where I said the above – more flat out cobblers on you part. Exacerbate? If you define exacerbate as “takes issue with unsupportable, unsustainable and abusive message board posts” then I’m your man, guilty.

Have a look; the only person’s posts on this thread that I have challenged have been yours. Why do you think that is? You’ve got access to internet, look this stuff up. Check if the stuff you say is supportable.

Or maybe you’ve now done that? And maybe Twickers opinion of you is correct?