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Why dont the Americans mind their own F*cking Business?
- Thread starter Publius Ovidius
- Start date
perth seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 5,487
I'll be glad when Bush leaves office. His foreign policy has been one disaster after another, and this is another example of the Bush administration's reckless policies that end up having the opposite affect of its original intention and escalates international tensions.
NMH
Banned
I like America, and many Americans - but not this idiot Bush and his terrible party.
They like to pick their enemies.
"hey, you - you are one of an 'axis of EVIL', and we expect you to behave nicely towards us now that's out in the open"
It's just pathetic how stupid and backward these people are, and how astounding that they got to the position of leading such a country.
Not to mention their regard for their own country, when they hi-jacked the government for two years simply because Clinton got a blow job from his secretary.
They like to pick their enemies.
"hey, you - you are one of an 'axis of EVIL', and we expect you to behave nicely towards us now that's out in the open"
It's just pathetic how stupid and backward these people are, and how astounding that they got to the position of leading such a country.
Not to mention their regard for their own country, when they hi-jacked the government for two years simply because Clinton got a blow job from his secretary.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6923430.stm
Just f*** off back to America and leave the rest of the world alone Condelisa Rice you scabby bitch FFS.
Because if they did
a) historically we'd probably be speaking German
b) world threats aside it makes for a good economy
c) most of the great technical advances have been brought about from military R&D and Joe Public needs a reason to spend his tax on this so someone needs to bang the drum and make the reasons clear
d) nobody else really likes a small arrogant island with shite weather, piss poor food, tiny little brick houses with small gardens, abysmal public transport, a crap national football team and monarchy that doesn't do much...but the Americans love it. God bless them and their dollar, which by the way makes us going to America great value.
That's why.
Leekbrookgull
Well-known member
Ladies and Gentlemen i'll give you the next President of The United States of America. Will you please all stand for John Edwards.
bhaexpress
New member
Speaking from experience if you asked the average American about this they'd say 'Condelisa who ?' Believe me they'd much rather their tax dollars be spent of keeping the price of gas down.
Robot Chicken
Seriously?
No, I don't think so. Knowing the British and their "knack for languages" I think we wouldn't have picked it up yet. We'd still be speaking English, just LOUDLY and SLOWLY.
NMH
Banned
Let's get 'a)' sorted out right now mate; if WE hadn't declared war against Germany - THEY would be speaking German! Joe Kennedy was an 'ally' of Hitler, a full-on admirer, and he was a powerful American. He didn't like the English, as it happens. That the tiny country of Japan gave the USA a bit of a runaround intimates that just maybe, if Hitler had carte blanche over Europe (which he basically DID, except for us) and he, and Mussolini, and Stalin - had wanted to just run the northern hemisphere, they could have easily done it whether the Americans approved or not. Would Hitler have allowed for an autonomous power without any German influence, without it being a complete alliance run by His Truly? It would have been a very different world, and the recently UNITED States would have erupted to eradicate all Jews and Negros - echoes of pre-civil war America.
His treatment of Poland doesn't suggest his hunger for ownership would be satiated by countries acceding to simple alliance - it would have to be fascism or nothing - and I doubt there'd have been a sharing of power.
The British got stuck in, like bulldogs, and the US took their sweet time while we held against the might of Germany and Hitler's allies. They had to be coaxed and cajoled, and convinced.
So, before the cavalry congratulate themselves for coming in at the right moment, and lest some forget - these Isles were stoutly defended in the air sea and beaches by some real heroes - and against huge odds.
acrossthepond
Active member
acrossthepond
Active member
Robot Chicken
Seriously?
You're entitled to your opinion but NMH's version is one I hadn't considered before. It's one thing to shout "bollocks" at his argument but can you come up with a reasoned defence against his viewpoint?
Longer, as my ex worked for Bae in Riyadh between 80-82. A friend of ours was a QFI for the RAF out there teaching the Saudi pilots to fly fast jets.
leonidas
Go tell the Spartans
Not much talking to the leaders of a country who quite happily state it will not rest until Israel is wiped off the face of the earth....somebody, somewhere tried that with the Jews before....
“There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will wipe off this stigma (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world, ... The World without Zionism. Anybody who recognises Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nations' fury [and] is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world.” (source)
Just who is demonising who?
Aw come on, he had been out that night and you know what he's like when he's had a couple, he just goes on a bit, I don't think he means anything by it.
leonidas
Go tell the Spartans
What he said!
Bloody good post sir
Over 1 million Germans had to be left on the Western front because this country refused to quit, Valuable armour had to be sent to North Africa and thousands of anti aircraft guns and crews were kept in Germany to defend against our raids that were desperatly needed on the Russian front.
We will never know (thank god) if that 1 million men and equipment could have swung the war for Hitler if they had been available for duty on the eastern front.
I have no axe to grind with the Americans but I see red when they claim to have won the first and second world wars and that I would be speaking German if it wasn't for them.
magoo
New member
possibly, apart from the last two paragraphs.
NMH
Banned
Well THERE'S a reasoned response! You certainly proved me completely wrong, and I bow to your brilliant put-down-line. Did you go to school and learn that ....... did you even go to school?
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #37
really...if its so shit here why do so many people want to come here then?
If you think this place is arrogant, try living in South Africa.
NMH
Banned
"Hey pal, there's a bit of a skirmish going on over here - fascism and racism running riot, a bunch of well-armed guys bent on genocide, marching all over the place massacring anyone who stands in their way or doesn't lay down a red carpet for them. It threatens the world, and we are on the front line....howabout a little help here please?"
"aahhh, no thanks bud, we are doing okay-dokay over here - got great chewing gum, happy movies and loads of money to play with and build big things with. We don't wanna get involved"
(loads of massacres, genocide, bombing-out of cities, over-running countries - years later);
"hey mate, we really are getting low on ammunition and resources, and were hoping to get a couple of capable allies on the case. It seems that they are hell-bent on taking over the world, and fascism is a rather nasty style of political arrangement. If they win, your capitolist economy could be effected greatly - and that's only if these fascists and communists decide to stop at controlling Europe. World power will not be in the hands of you Yanks at all - no way!"
"uhh, well okay, yeah - we better get over there. Sure bud, we'll send a load of our guys, a lot of hardware and get involved" (bearing in mind that the German Navy ARE actually sinking our ships too, and exercising tangible warlike activities just off our East Coast!!)
"thanks, you are our heroes, saving the world - we bow to your superior bravery and speed in coming to the table"
That's right acrossthepond, you were the REAL heroes in taking on the might of Germany, Russia, Italy etc. - NOT OUR TINY GROUP OF ISLANDS ISOLATED A FEW MILES FROM MAINLAND EUROPE WITH VERY FEW RESOURCES!
twat
You're lucky I'm not calling you "ein argeloch und vixer", because that's what you would have been called if we hadn't been the first line against Germany.
"aahhh, no thanks bud, we are doing okay-dokay over here - got great chewing gum, happy movies and loads of money to play with and build big things with. We don't wanna get involved"
(loads of massacres, genocide, bombing-out of cities, over-running countries - years later);
"hey mate, we really are getting low on ammunition and resources, and were hoping to get a couple of capable allies on the case. It seems that they are hell-bent on taking over the world, and fascism is a rather nasty style of political arrangement. If they win, your capitolist economy could be effected greatly - and that's only if these fascists and communists decide to stop at controlling Europe. World power will not be in the hands of you Yanks at all - no way!"
"uhh, well okay, yeah - we better get over there. Sure bud, we'll send a load of our guys, a lot of hardware and get involved" (bearing in mind that the German Navy ARE actually sinking our ships too, and exercising tangible warlike activities just off our East Coast!!)
"thanks, you are our heroes, saving the world - we bow to your superior bravery and speed in coming to the table"
That's right acrossthepond, you were the REAL heroes in taking on the might of Germany, Russia, Italy etc. - NOT OUR TINY GROUP OF ISLANDS ISOLATED A FEW MILES FROM MAINLAND EUROPE WITH VERY FEW RESOURCES!
twat
You're lucky I'm not calling you "ein argeloch und vixer", because that's what you would have been called if we hadn't been the first line against Germany.
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Storer68
New member
but historically sustainable
acrossthepond
Active member
Hello gents,
Apologies for taking a little while to get back to you, I’ve been at work with 30 or so of those Americans that many people on here seem to dislike so much.
To answer your first question, yes I did go to school. That was ok, so I toddled off to university. That was ok too, so I thought I’d go back and carry on with that line of study; do you know what, I enjoyed that so much that I went back a third time, and ended up clutching three very flash-looking pieces of paper on the back of it.
Any road up,
Joe Kennedy – he disagreed with Churchill’s claims that compromise with Nazi Germany was impossible; instead he supported the then British PM, Chamberlain’s, policy of appeasement in order to head off another world war that be believed would be worse than the first. He was not alone in this. In 1938 despite his own anti-Semitic views, Kennedy attempted to obtain an audience with Hitler as the Nazi persecution of Jews intensified. FDR’s shift from a neutral to more anti-German policy, led to Kennedy’s resignation in Autumn 1940. Relations were tense between Kennedy and Roosevelt, but despite this Kennedy was active in rallying Irish and Roman Catholic Democrats to vote for Roosevelt's reelection (also in 1940) on the back of a continued pro-war position. Kennedy was a strong supporter of offering aid to Britain and testified before Congress in January 1941, supporting the Roosevelt administration's Lend Lease proposal, and gave a well received radio address supporting the same legislation. Oh, and his daughter married, with his blessing, into the English nobility.
Kennedy was a Dove, and there were many of them, to Roosevelt’s hawk, but to characterize him as an ally or supporter of Hitler is a gross misrepresentation of events, or more succinctly, bollocks.
Japan gave the US the run around for 18 months or so from 1941 because the country’s economy and society had been on a war-footing since 1935. Most of its troops were veterans, they were well armed and trained, and ferociously disciplined. The Americans were raw, under-trained, under-prepared and at the outbreak of war had fewer men under arms than the Japanese. They had no amphibious experience, and their combined arms and small-unit tactics were poor.
Hitler did not have Carte Blanche over Europe (Soviet Union anyone) and had outlined his plans for the Soviets in Mein Kampf years before; conflict between the two great dictatorships was inevitable. You say so yourself, when you say that Hitler would never have permitted an autonomous power without German control in what it perceived to be its sphere of influence..
What evidence do you have that the USA would have erupted to eradicate Negroes and Jews? When has there ever been a systematic pogrom against the Jews in North America? And what echoes of pre-civil war America - the civil war began as an economic event (in the same way that the war of independence had done so) and hundreds of thousands of white Americans were killed by other white Americans in America’s most bitter conflict – over 600,000 American combatants died in the civil war (Britain lost 400,000 in WW2) making it a 'never again' event for the Americans, and one that left them deeply scarred. Going to war in 1917 was a 'greater good' decision that happened within living memory of the civil war, and had a profound impact on the US. Is it any wonder they were reticent in 1940 - especially when it was her erstwhile allies, Britain and France who had sown the seeds for the conflict in the first place.
Poland was partitioned with the SU and disappeared as an entity. A better analogy would be Denmark, or Norway where the social structures of those countries were left intact. Both were nominally fascist in government, but both countries had traditionally been run by the civil service anyway, so little changed.
The British troops made the best of a bad job in Northern France and Belgium, and had that heroic escape at Dunkirk, but it was a defeat in detail. The French folded (quelle surprise) and we were left on our wee island.
The Germans never brought their might to bear against us in any meaningful way, with the following exceptions. They were 24-48 hrs away from winning the battle of Britain when they switched their tactics away from airfield denial to civilian attack- this was a decision on their part, prompted by Churchill’s order to bomb Berlin – a good call by the original bulldog, but one vociferously opposed within government here. Secondly, they virtually strangled the country with their U-boat attacks; one of the key factors in surviving this onslaught - lend-lease materiel provided and bankrolled by the US to the UK. See above for one of the key supporters of this initiative.
The British suffered defeats in France and Belgium (despite being numerically and materially superior to the Germans), Narvik in Norway, North Africa (we kicked the Italians about a bit, but they don’t count - everyone kicked the Italians about). When the Dieppe raid was launched in 1942 it was a shambles, and launched with mostly Canadian troops as the British home command was still in such bad shape.
I can’t think of a single occasion when we repulsed Germans invaders from our beaches? Rudolph Hess parachuted in, but I don’t think that counts?
I would never support an argument that the British and Commonwealth forces did not fight with courage and commitment – we’ve never been short on that - but I think you’re muddling two things here. That courage and commitment would have counted for nothing without American intervention. Without this intervention we were doomed to one of two outcomes – German hegemony over Mainland Europe, or Soviet. The rest is down to economics – the Americans could make more stuff, more quickly than anyone else in the world. Once the Japanese were foolish enough to take them on, it was all done bar the fighting. Economics won the Cold War too.
And the thing that prompted this thread in the first place, US overseas intervention? The decline of empires, and especially that of the former policeman of the High Seas, and the power vacuum that it left behind it. The yanks and the Russians stepped in, had themselves a few proxy wars, and the yanks won.
Most of the Americans that I know are decent, hard-working people with many of the same concerns that we have; is their job secure, are their kids going to be able to get a decent education, how they will pay their mortgage, what if they get sick etc. Most of them also don’t like their government any more than the opinions on this thread show, but at least they are prepared to get out there and vote to do something about it, unlike the apathy that grips the UK.
Oh, and back to those three pieces of paper that I was clutching - the third one cites Twentieth-century geopolitics as a topic that I know at least a little about.. I think that qualifies me to have an informed opinion on this, albeit that I’m dredging this up from quite a few years ago. I’m also a dab hand on NBC warfare, if you find the need.
So in hindsight, 90% bollocks – the British and commonwealth troops were very brave.
Atp
Born and bred in Sussex.
Apologies for taking a little while to get back to you, I’ve been at work with 30 or so of those Americans that many people on here seem to dislike so much.
To answer your first question, yes I did go to school. That was ok, so I toddled off to university. That was ok too, so I thought I’d go back and carry on with that line of study; do you know what, I enjoyed that so much that I went back a third time, and ended up clutching three very flash-looking pieces of paper on the back of it.
Any road up,
Joe Kennedy – he disagreed with Churchill’s claims that compromise with Nazi Germany was impossible; instead he supported the then British PM, Chamberlain’s, policy of appeasement in order to head off another world war that be believed would be worse than the first. He was not alone in this. In 1938 despite his own anti-Semitic views, Kennedy attempted to obtain an audience with Hitler as the Nazi persecution of Jews intensified. FDR’s shift from a neutral to more anti-German policy, led to Kennedy’s resignation in Autumn 1940. Relations were tense between Kennedy and Roosevelt, but despite this Kennedy was active in rallying Irish and Roman Catholic Democrats to vote for Roosevelt's reelection (also in 1940) on the back of a continued pro-war position. Kennedy was a strong supporter of offering aid to Britain and testified before Congress in January 1941, supporting the Roosevelt administration's Lend Lease proposal, and gave a well received radio address supporting the same legislation. Oh, and his daughter married, with his blessing, into the English nobility.
Kennedy was a Dove, and there were many of them, to Roosevelt’s hawk, but to characterize him as an ally or supporter of Hitler is a gross misrepresentation of events, or more succinctly, bollocks.
Japan gave the US the run around for 18 months or so from 1941 because the country’s economy and society had been on a war-footing since 1935. Most of its troops were veterans, they were well armed and trained, and ferociously disciplined. The Americans were raw, under-trained, under-prepared and at the outbreak of war had fewer men under arms than the Japanese. They had no amphibious experience, and their combined arms and small-unit tactics were poor.
Hitler did not have Carte Blanche over Europe (Soviet Union anyone) and had outlined his plans for the Soviets in Mein Kampf years before; conflict between the two great dictatorships was inevitable. You say so yourself, when you say that Hitler would never have permitted an autonomous power without German control in what it perceived to be its sphere of influence..
What evidence do you have that the USA would have erupted to eradicate Negroes and Jews? When has there ever been a systematic pogrom against the Jews in North America? And what echoes of pre-civil war America - the civil war began as an economic event (in the same way that the war of independence had done so) and hundreds of thousands of white Americans were killed by other white Americans in America’s most bitter conflict – over 600,000 American combatants died in the civil war (Britain lost 400,000 in WW2) making it a 'never again' event for the Americans, and one that left them deeply scarred. Going to war in 1917 was a 'greater good' decision that happened within living memory of the civil war, and had a profound impact on the US. Is it any wonder they were reticent in 1940 - especially when it was her erstwhile allies, Britain and France who had sown the seeds for the conflict in the first place.
Poland was partitioned with the SU and disappeared as an entity. A better analogy would be Denmark, or Norway where the social structures of those countries were left intact. Both were nominally fascist in government, but both countries had traditionally been run by the civil service anyway, so little changed.
The British troops made the best of a bad job in Northern France and Belgium, and had that heroic escape at Dunkirk, but it was a defeat in detail. The French folded (quelle surprise) and we were left on our wee island.
The Germans never brought their might to bear against us in any meaningful way, with the following exceptions. They were 24-48 hrs away from winning the battle of Britain when they switched their tactics away from airfield denial to civilian attack- this was a decision on their part, prompted by Churchill’s order to bomb Berlin – a good call by the original bulldog, but one vociferously opposed within government here. Secondly, they virtually strangled the country with their U-boat attacks; one of the key factors in surviving this onslaught - lend-lease materiel provided and bankrolled by the US to the UK. See above for one of the key supporters of this initiative.
The British suffered defeats in France and Belgium (despite being numerically and materially superior to the Germans), Narvik in Norway, North Africa (we kicked the Italians about a bit, but they don’t count - everyone kicked the Italians about). When the Dieppe raid was launched in 1942 it was a shambles, and launched with mostly Canadian troops as the British home command was still in such bad shape.
I can’t think of a single occasion when we repulsed Germans invaders from our beaches? Rudolph Hess parachuted in, but I don’t think that counts?
I would never support an argument that the British and Commonwealth forces did not fight with courage and commitment – we’ve never been short on that - but I think you’re muddling two things here. That courage and commitment would have counted for nothing without American intervention. Without this intervention we were doomed to one of two outcomes – German hegemony over Mainland Europe, or Soviet. The rest is down to economics – the Americans could make more stuff, more quickly than anyone else in the world. Once the Japanese were foolish enough to take them on, it was all done bar the fighting. Economics won the Cold War too.
And the thing that prompted this thread in the first place, US overseas intervention? The decline of empires, and especially that of the former policeman of the High Seas, and the power vacuum that it left behind it. The yanks and the Russians stepped in, had themselves a few proxy wars, and the yanks won.
Most of the Americans that I know are decent, hard-working people with many of the same concerns that we have; is their job secure, are their kids going to be able to get a decent education, how they will pay their mortgage, what if they get sick etc. Most of them also don’t like their government any more than the opinions on this thread show, but at least they are prepared to get out there and vote to do something about it, unlike the apathy that grips the UK.
Oh, and back to those three pieces of paper that I was clutching - the third one cites Twentieth-century geopolitics as a topic that I know at least a little about.. I think that qualifies me to have an informed opinion on this, albeit that I’m dredging this up from quite a few years ago. I’m also a dab hand on NBC warfare, if you find the need.
So in hindsight, 90% bollocks – the British and commonwealth troops were very brave.
Atp
Born and bred in Sussex.
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