Where's the loyalty gone

[Bwian]

Someone's a little touchy. It's in the past, get over it!

You want to be dismissive of the unsettling actions surrounding Dean Wilkins, I'm merely expressing the same dismissiveness to show you how your comments are viewed by people who see the firing of DW as something more than 'chairman firing a manager' and more as something indicative of underlyin problems at the club that have not been addressed.

If people were as quick to dismiss the actions of Archer et al, as some are to dismiss the firing of Wilkins, this club would not exist.

The fans are the checks and balances that keep a club honest, keep it going. If we just let something go because "it's in the past" we're failing our club.

I don't understand how you can possibly compare Archer, Stanley and Bellotti's actions to the firing of Wilkins?

In hindsight firing Wilkins was a mistake-nothing more though. There wasn't an underlying motive to destroy the club so the board can get their hands on its assets.

I agree that the fans are the ones to keep the board honest but nine months of sniping because a manager was fired is way too much. The vitriol coming from some users on here is 'discusting'. Especially as it is a daily barrage aimed at Knight.

Yes, the firing of Wilkins wasn't handled properly but it is now behind us-whereas the actions of Archer, Stanley and Bellotti are still blighting this club after more than 10 years. There is a huge difference. I'm sure that there are a few on here who'd love to see us drop into the Blue Square so they can remind us on a daily basis that the firing of Wilkins was wrong.

Maybe you'd like to tell us what these 'underlying problems' are at the club?

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Thing is though, you can garantee that at Orient on Saturday the support will be fantastic and the atmosphere will be electric - the Albion fans away excel themselves when we travel in numbers. The problem is the team come back to the Withdean and everyone starts moaning after the first mistake by any player.

We can stay up, things are looking grim but we are just a point from safety.

Exactly. It might be better if we played games at Withdean behind closed doors! Away is nearly always awesome, can't wait for Orient on Saturday

.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

I think they mean the infighting among the posters on NSC/The Argus that most players are probably either not aware of, or look at as a way of undermining the criticism they receive.

Trouble is, I think the players are aware of the kerfuffle going on in the stands at Withdean / on here. We need to SUPPORT the team at home, not give them shit after a mis-placed pass.

.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Little spat in the 90's?

Now I know your comments aren't to be taken seriously.

It does make you wonder...

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[Guy Fawkes]

Again? What is with people saying "think of how bad it's been in the past" doesn't stop it being bad now. Not as bad, yet, but still bad. Why diod people complain in the nineties, I mean, it wasn't as bad as during the war...


I can separate the club from the board and the players. The club is bigger than any of them and the club will always have my support.

If the board make bad decisions, I will criticise them for them for it. If a player plays badly I will criticise him for it. If a manager shows a lack of awareness of what trouble he is in/what tactics he should play, I will call him on it.

Any parent, or probably teacher, can tell you how it is possible to criticise/chastise someone and still love them. How many parents have told their children off, told them they're doing something dangerous/wrong etc. in an effort to help that kid grow and develop and become a decent human being? Does that mean they don't love them? Of course not.

So where is the line that criticism to the level of abuse aimed at indiviuals at the club becomes justified?

If a player makes 1 mistake during a match, is that worthy of continual criticism for weeks and months to come? Is it worthy of a player getting abuse as they warm up and about to come on as a sub?

Is it acceptable for White and Booker to be met with shouts of "you won't be at the club next match, you'll be shopping instead? - especially after winning their only previous game in charge, and as the players play for their manager, and what impact does that have on the players to hear that?

It is not criticism due to continual mistakes, it's now make 1 error or just as a dislike towards a player, mistakes or not, then be forced to suffer sustained abuse, something that is likely to make them make further mistakes. I guess that none of the moaners else ever makes any mistakes at anything they do in life do they? so footballers are obviously the exception and because of what they do, it makes them worthy of this?

 

[king Wombat]

the worst thing is that half of the whingers just do it to get a reaction. Would have thought it would have got boring by now but unfortunately not.

bet they're a whizz at parties..

 

[Acker79]

I don't understand how you can possibly compare Archer, Stanley and Bellotti's actions to the firing of Wilkins?

In hindsight firing Wilkins was a mistake-nothing more though. There wasn't an underlying motive to destroy the club so the board can get their hands on its assets.

I agree that the fans are the ones to keep the board honest but nine months of sniping because a manager was fired is way too much. The vitriol coming from some users on here is 'discusting'. Especially as it is a daily barrage aimed at Knight.

Yes, the firing of Wilkins wasn't handled properly but it is now behind us-whereas the actions of Archer, Stanley and Bellotti are still blighting this club after more than 10 years. There is a huge difference. I'm sure that there are a few on here who'd love to see us drop into the Blue Square so they can remind us on a daily basis that the firing of Wilkins was wrong.

Maybe you'd like to tell us what these 'underlying problems' are at the club?

I don't know the underlying problems, I don't claim to. But, there are people on here who seem to think there are issues over Dick Knight interfering in the team affairs, singing mates, or mates kids (some people like to make a big deal about rich kids playing for the team), seem to look at the re-signing of Hart and Mayo as a case of Knight wanting to give his friends a pay day, his supposed insistence of white staying as part of the coaching set up, regardless of how beneficial it is, how it works with the manager, and so on. They look at DK convincing the board to oust Wilkins as a sign of DK abusing his power to get his mate micky a new job in management.

The firing of DW, in this hypothesis, is a sign of the underlying issues of DK's behaviour/attitude and the negative effect it has on the club. That is why it is deemed by some to be more tha simply a mistake.

(For the record, I can see why people would have these attitudes, but the optimist in me likes to think the theory above is wrong, but I'm not ruling it out, yet.)

I'm not intending to compare the firing of wilkins with the actions of Archer et al, I mean to compare this attitude that fans are wrong to question the board when they make decisions that have a negative impact on the club.

Would you rather the fans questioned the decision to fire Wilkins and bring in Adams, question the often questionable or incomplete logic we get (a meeting between a man who won't quit and a man who won't fire him ends in mutual consent that didn't involve the board - as all managerial hirings and firings should?!), and discover nothing untoward, or would you rather fans naively celebrated every decision and ignore the bad effect it has until we discover that DK plan all along was to pile his personal debt onto the club, send the club into administration by ruining the club's on field fortunes, going to live the sweet life in Spain?** NB - there is no reason to ever suspect this, and the mere idea of it is simply meant as dramatic extreme to illustrate the point.

Also, giving the way the fans are not trusting of the board or the way they work largely due to their handling of DW's firing, don't you think it's fair to say that their actions in firing him are still blighting the club 9 months on?


I don't deny some abuse crosses the line, and like I said in another post, I probably don't realise how much there is because I tend to ignore the knuckle dragger posts on here (and most places).

 

[Don Quixote]

Isn't it time all of you Wilkins lickers moved on and started supporting the club you all claim to be fans of? All of this bickering about what happened nearly a year ago is slowly eroding our support.

Wilkins has gone. He isn't coming back. Get over it for fucks sake!

No matter what you think of Dick Knight or his handling of Wilkins-he isn't going anywhere until Falmer is built so get over that too.

No wonder nobody is rushing to become manager-they've probably looked on here and thought "f*** that lot-I'll never make them happy so damned if I'm going to try for that job".

When did i say i didn't like Dick Knight?!?!?!

Well actually if you look at soem of my previous posts it becomes clear...

I don't think they look at NSC to be honest.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I like the first post in this thread, it's moaning about moaners! I love irony, and I think the poster had a point, this board is so incredibly negative. It's almost exclusively negative, in fact. And it's not just because of the situation our club is in at the moment either, but this is how NSC is, if you can't stand it, then leave. That's always the alternative...

 

[Acker79]

So where is the line that criticism to the level of abuse aimed at indiviuals at the club becomes justified?

Good question and perhaps deserving of a thread to it self. Obviously I think anything personal is over the line. Anything about family, or non-footballing issues is, or should be, no go.

If a player makes 1 mistake during a match, is that worthy of continual criticism for weeks and months to come? Is it worthy of a player getting abuse as they warm up and about to come on as a sub?

Depends on the mistake and the abuse. Coming on as a sub having forgotten to put your shorts on should be ridiculed forever, imo. But that's not what you're talking about, is it? But yeah, depends on the mistake and the level of criticism.

I don't have a problem with light mocking "Hey davies, if you find your self two yards from the line with an empty goal, try getting the ball under the bar, " (wink is important here) I wouldn't really have a problem with. "Oi davies, you prick, it's called goal, try and get kick that round thing at it!" does quite have the bantery cheek to it.

Is it acceptable for White and Booker to be met with shouts of "you won't be at the club next match, you'll be shopping instead? - especially after winning their only previous game in charge,

Nope. Not saying it is.

and as the players play for their manager, and what impact does that have on the players to hear that?

In fairness, I imagine a lot of players are thinking a similar thing, or at least wondering if they will. I don't believe the players know much more than us about whether White and Booker will continue to coach with the new manager. So, I don't really think it will effect the players as much.

It is not criticism due to continual mistakes, it's now make 1 error or just as a dislike towards a player, mistakes or not, then be forced to suffer sustained abuse, something that is likely to make them make further mistakes. I guess that none of the moaners else ever makes any mistakes at anything they do in life do they? so footballers are obviously the exception and because of what they do, it makes them worthy of this?

Oh, poor footballers. They are not alone in this. Singers, suffer this as well, look at the abuse Britney got, Amy Winehouse was getting slaughtered by the fans at her concerts, ashlee simpson and miley cyrus have had issues with backing tracks that exposed their lip-syncing that led to them being abused.

When you decide to take on a public performance job, one in which your success is dictated by your continued high level of performance, you are putting yourself out there. There is no customer service department for fans dissatisfied with you, no ombudsman to take unresolved complaints to, and no alternative for 'the customer'.

And it may take, say El Abd making one mistake for the fans to get on his back against orient, but it won't be his first mistake of the season. We're at the point where one mistake is not simply one mistake, it is yet another mistake. Often a mistake that's been made before and it is more a sign of not learning from mistakes not simply making a single mistake.

A lot of complaints are driven by emotion. I don't say this to excuse them, but after having such a bad season, another mistake isn't "just a mistake, he'll make up for it, Come on brighton!!!" It's "Oh god here we go again...". It's nice to be positive, but it isn't so easy in practice.

 

[challengechappers]

But that is taking it to extremes. The basic concept being put forward is "if you criticise the club you can't be a true fan, you don't really love the albion".

My issue is with that basic concept. Bringing the extreme vitriol and painting it as the norm is, imo, misleading. But then I've developed an ability to instantly dismiss these extreme criticism/posts as the ramblings of people who are ranting thanks to their anonymity.

fair enough, but isn't the "extreme vitriol" becoming more like The Norm this season?

and that was nowhere near a rant, your last sentence is a bit pathetic.

 

[Acker79]

fair enough, but isn't the "extreme vitriol" becoming more like The Norm this season?

and that was nowhere near a rant, your last sentence is a bit pathetic.

Sorry, I see how poorly expressed that was. My last line was not directed at you, it was directed at the Neanderthals that take their criticisms too far, their rants are the ones I seem to ignore. I hear people go on about how they are so common, but I don't notice them that much, I can only assume I ignore and dismiss most of them and that's why they don't bother me, or why they don't tend to enter my thinking when trying to argue the merits of complaining in football.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

its getting a shame on this board that those who have genuine concerns at the way B&HA are being run are suddenly regarded as "moaners " or " disloyal"

 

[Silent Bob]

Vitriolic and abusive too apparently. Not everything is black and white. And NSC has little to no impact on real life, or even Withdean.

 

[jkw]

 

[jkw]

the gist of the thread seems to be that all of us are thoroughly pee'd off with whats happened this season and we all have the right to complain about that .....but the abuse should stop we all love this club of ours and no matter who is in charge or who plays we should all still be giving our support to the CLUB[/QUOTE]

Hooray well said, finally someone understands what I was trying to say, I never was very good with words