When did the St George's Cross replace the Union Jack for English football/cricket fans?

[Jimmy Grimble]

Well?

I've heard a lot of people say Euro 96 was the catalyst behind the shift, but was it definitely then? I'd be interested to get some responses from who used to travel with England - whether it be for cricket or football - on when they began to notice a change. And what was the reason for it? Did the St George's Cross simply become more readily available? Was it new found patriotism? Got bored of seeing the Union Flag?

 

[melias shoes]

Euro 96 will be about right.

 

[Hillian1]

It was if I recall correctly, an idea by various Fans Groups to highlight that Euro 96 was an English hosted event and not a British one.

The idea was partly due to The Union Flag being widely recognised as the badge of Hooliganism.

 

[chucky1973]

should have been years before that though, but i think 96 was about right

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The idea was partly due to The Union Flag being widely recognised as the badge of Hooliganism.

Are you sure? The Union Flag was used because the English flag was deemed racist, hijacked by the NF wasn't it?

 

[Brovion]

Euro 96 definitely. When I used to go to England games in the 1970s and 80s it was always union jacks, St George's flags where for church steeples. (Now we just need our own English anthem). As to why we ever used the union flag in the first place I don't know, but I'm pleased we've now got our own distinct flag. I guess Euro 96 is when the stupidity of using the wrong flag finally dawned.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Was there a noticeable drive towards at Euro 96?

Was it to make ourselves distinct from Scotland as they were in the same group? Was there a media campaign behind it? Was it to do with a change in popular culture at the time, i.e. the new 'lad culture'?

 

[Brovion]

Was there a noticeable drive towards at Euro 96?

Was it to make ourselves distinct from Scotland as they were in the same group? Was there a media campaign behind it? Was it to do with a change in popular culture at the time, i.e. the new 'lad culture'?

I don't really know/remember, but I don't think it was anything to do with 'lad' culture. There was no specific media campaign as such but there was a growing feeling that using the British flag and the British anthem for English teams was 'wrong', and I dunno, maybe the FA thought that Euro 96 was a good chance to make a load of money by changing the team's flag as well as changing the shirts.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Italia 90 was still Union Flag.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Well?

I've heard a lot of people say Euro 96 was the catalyst behind the shift, but was it definitely then? I'd be interested to get some responses from who used to travel with England - whether it be for cricket or football - on when they began to notice a change. And what was the reason for it? Did the St George's Cross simply become more readily available? Was it new found patriotism? Got bored of seeing the Union Flag?

union flag in 77,86,88,pretty much euro 96 claimed the george cross

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

For cricket, the TCCB was disbanded and the England [and Wales] Cricket Board was started on 1st Jan 1997

Hope this helps ....

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Was there a noticeable drive towards at Euro 96?

Was it to make ourselves distinct from Scotland as they were in the same group? Was there a media campaign behind it? Was it to do with a change in popular culture at the time, i.e. the new 'lad culture'?

My official cap which I still possess from 96 has the Cross of St George slap on the forehead

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I don't really know/remember, but I don't think it was anything to do with 'lad' culture. There was no specific media campaign as such but there was a growing feeling that using the British flag and the British anthem for English teams was 'wrong', and I dunno, maybe the FA thought that Euro 96 was a good chance to make a load of money by changing the team's flag as well as changing the shirts.

Fair enough.

Be interesting to see whether there's a swing back towards the Union Flag. In the last couple of years I've noticed a few more cropping up at Albion games.

The point [MENTION=16843]Hillian1[/MENTION] makes is also interesting - if the Union Flag was considered a badge of hooliganism (I don't know if this is true or not?), how is the St George's flag considered now? The generation I've grown up has attached a negative stigma to the flag, IMHO. A lot of that down to the fact it's attributed with loons like the EDL, etc. and maybe even partly because there's been a growing disillusion with the England football team in recent years.

 

[Nathan]

My official cap which I still possess from 96 has the Cross of St George slap on the forehead

You played in euro 96?

 

[Brovion]

Fair enough.

Be interesting to see whether there's a swing back towards the Union Flag. In the last couple of years I've noticed a few more cropping up at Albion games.

The point @Hillian1 makes is also interesting - if the Union Flag was considered a badge of hooliganism (I don't know if this is true or not?), how is the St George's flag considered now? The generation I've grown up has attached a negative stigma to the flag, IMHO. A lot of that down to the fact it's attributed with loons like the EDL, etc. and maybe even partly because there's been a growing disillusion with the England football team in recent years.

Yeah, I grew up with the same stigma attached to the union jack which was often seen as a symbol of the far right. Understandable as they waved it at their rallies more than us lefties did at ours, but it always rankled with me. When the St George's flag started to be used it was initially free of that, but as you say it's been hijacked to a certain extent by the far right. Interestingly I think this year we've taken massive steps in reclaiming the union jack! When I was in Barcelona after the Olympics I was amazed at how many people were walking round in t-shirts etc that had some stylised but recognisable version of the flag on them, I don't recall ever seeing that before, either here or abroad.

I disagree with Hillan1 to a certain extent, I'm not sure it was ever a 'badge' of hooliganism as such, but it's connotations with the far right meant that it was often seen when there was trouble.

 

[The Spanish]

Yeah, I grew up with the same stigma attached to the union jack which was often seen as a symbol of the far right. Understandable as they waved it at their rallies more than us lefties did at ours, but it always rankled with me. When the St George's flag started to be used it was initially free of that, but as you say it's been hijacked to a certain extent by the far right. Interestingly I think this year we've taken massive steps in reclaiming the union jack! When I was in Barcelona after the Olympics I was amazed at how many people were walking round in t-shirts etc that had some stylised but recognisable version of the flag on them, I don't recall ever seeing that before, either here or abroad.

I disagree with Hillan1 to a certain extent, I'm not sure it was ever a 'badge' of hooliganism as such, but it's connotations with the far right meant that it was often seen when there was trouble.

has it been really been 'hijacked' by the far right like the Union Jack? Nationalist protestors are naturally going to use the flag of their nation, thats not the same as it being 'hijacked'.

the fact is there is a negative perception of flag displays that comes almost naturally to certain sectors of British society. If they invented a brand new flag today in 6 months time people would be talking about it being 'hijacked' and that it has negative connotations. If thats peoples starting point, then no matter what happens nothing is going to persuade them otherwise. The fact that the flag following the union jack is immediately subjected to this attempt to stigmatise displays of patriotism almost instantly, tells you all you need to know about these people. the St Georges Cross didnt initially have a stigma, because no one had had a chance to create the link without a bit of work making it so by saying it. They soon got round to it though.

Australia and New Zealand haven't 'hijacked' the Union Jack. No one thinks that. No one thinks the Mall lined with Union Jack waving people is some sort of sinister nationalist rally. All around the world the Union Jack is used in fashion as its so iconic. The belief that its a symbol of far right politics and racism exists in some peoples heads, and these types of people tend to be very loud shouters. But empty vessels and all that. What they are often trying to say is we dont approve of the flag being in the hands of the lower classes, and will therefore lie and mislead as we cannot be openly snobbish.

 

[Soulman]

Euro 96 definitely. When I used to go to England games in the 1970s and 80s it was always union jacks, St George's flags where for church steeples. (Now we just need our own English anthem). As to why we ever used the union flag in the first place I don't know, but I'm pleased we've now got our own distinct flag. I guess Euro 96 is when the stupidity of using the wrong flag finally dawned.

Our own anthem and the teams to play in Red and White.... not Blue ffs.
I still can not get over the HOME game at Wembley when we played the Swiss, the ground was awash with Red and White, not surprising as the Swiss play in Red
as well. What colour did England play in....yep Blue.
Most teams play in the colours of their flag.
I believe the England Hockey teams national anthem is Jerusalem, that was also the anthem for the England team in the Commonwealth games.
The England flag was not deemed racist. The NF and BNP use the Union Flag.
The England flag is being used as a scapegoat by politicians to quell nationalists and national pride.