What is it with the tories

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

The sad thing about all this, is we needed our politicians to behave like grown ups and put their differences aside. Whichever way the coalitions end up, or even if the Tories form a minority government, they need to work together to pull us out of this recession. They are still fighting along party political lines. The one thing that this election did say is that we do not believe in any of them sufficiently to govern alone, therefore we voted for them to work together for the good of us all.

British politics is so entrenched along political lines that we may never get sensible debate. You only have to go back over the six pages of this thread to see that. The number of people screaming undemocratic, calling people cocks and deriding others viewpoint is an embarrassment to this board and the country as a whole. The same goes for our elected MPs.

Can we make this post a sticky. At last some SENSE.

I agree there is far too much BLEATING from both sides.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I think Tory voters are entitled to be 'up in arms' for all the reasons that have been done to death.
Whatever happens,it will be very difficult for the ruling party/parties...again for all the reasons we well know.A diificult marriage between Tories and Libdems most probably.An unstable unholy alliance of the'losers'....almost certainly.
As a Tory supporter disappointed that a clear majority was not gained and that a Tory/Libdem agreement may not now be reached,I do feel that another election will not be far away.My prediction....Liberals will be hammered and the Tories will get in with a clear majority.Probably the best outcome at present!
In the meantime ,the Labour leadership contest should provide some good amusement all round!

I think you're probably right. I considered voting Lib Dem or UKIP this time but ended up voting Tory just to try and rid us of the failed government. If the Lib Dems get into bed with Labour then I'll certainly be voting Tory at the next, soon to be, election. I would imagine many floating voters would immediately turn to the Tories at the next election.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Can someone explain exactly how PR works.

Presumably each constituency has exactly the same amount of voters?
We will have to completely rewrite the boundaries?
Each constituency must have the same amount of candidates?
Will each candidate have to have a deposit? and will they have a cut off point at which they lose it like now?


Finally people keep going on about having an unelected PM.....how does that work? We never vote for a "leader " of a party, we all vote for a party don't we?

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I think Tory voters are entitled to be 'up in arms' for all the reasons that have been done to death.
Whatever happens,it will be very difficult for the ruling party/parties...again for all the reasons we well know.A diificult marriage between Tories and Libdems most probably.An unstable unholy alliance of the'losers'....almost certainly.
As a Tory supporter disappointed that a clear majority was not gained and that a Tory/Libdem agreement may not now be reached,I do feel that another election will not be far away.My prediction....Liberals will be hammered and the Tories will get in with a clear majority.Probably the best outcome at present!
In the meantime ,the Labour leadership contest should provide some good amusement all round!

Whilst I would love that to happen Im afraid our Jock friends will never ever vote conservative as long as I have a hole in my arse and for that reason alone I cant see the Tories ever winning a majority.

If the tories really want to do well they need to appeal to scotland.

The south will easily outvote the north of england when it comes to tory/labour.

 

[beorhthelm]

A lib/ lab coalition is clearly democratic
...
conservative 36 % of vote
Labour 29 %
Liberals 23 %

Looking at that it is clear that lib/lab have a clear mandate to govern,

... Bring on PR and lets banish stupid undemocratic governments forvever.

I love the way some think all the Labour party and all the Liberal party share the same policies and ideals. the clue is they are two DIFFERENT parties, which might suggest they dont quite see eye to eye.

Banish "undemocratic government" with PR? where people vote on a manifesto then have half of it changed or jettisoned because it doesnt match the other members of the coalition.

 

[simmo]

Whilst I would love that to happen Im afraid our Jock friends will never ever vote conservative as long as I have a hole in my arse and for that reason alone I cant see the Tories ever winning a majority.

If the tories really want to do well they need to appeal to scotland.

The south will easily outvote the north of england when it comes to tory/labour.

The Tories can easily win a majority. If there was no UKIP (whom I think take disenchanted Tory votes) I think they would have this election.......PS. if there is another election soon as there would be under a Lib/Lab pact which I am sure will crumble pretty much straight away would UKIP with all there lost deposits in this election be able to afford to/or after their dismal showing want to fight it?

 

[Simster]

I love the way some think all the Labour party and all the Liberal party share the same policies and ideals. the clue is they are two DIFFERENT parties, which might suggest they dont quite see eye to eye.

Banish "undemocratic government" with PR? where people vote on a manifesto then have half of it changed or jettisoned because it doesnt match the other members of the coalition.

That's a product of any hung parliament, not just PR. It's just that it's more likely under PR because PR is FAIRER.

 

[Gwylan]

Can someone explain exactly how PR works.

Presumably each constituency has exactly the same amount of voters?
We will have to completely rewrite the boundaries?
Each constituency must have the same amount of candidates?
Will each candidate have to have a deposit? and will they have a cut off point at which they lose it like now?


Finally people keep going on about having an unelected PM.....how does that work? We never vote for a "leader " of a party, we all vote for a party don't we?

We could be here all day with this one.

There's no single system or ways in which it would work. This will explain all the different systems.

Electoral Reform Society - Electoral Reform Society

I've not seen anyone talk about the size of deposits.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Can someone explain exactly how PR works.

Presumably each constituency has exactly the same amount of voters?
We will have to completely rewrite the boundaries?
Each constituency must have the same amount of candidates?
Will each candidate have to have a deposit? and will they have a cut off point at which they lose it like now?


Finally people keep going on about having an unelected PM.....how does that work? We never vote for a "leader " of a party, we all vote for a party don't we?

You asked: its complicated Electoral Reform Society - Voting Systems

There's AV, AV+, STV, party Lists, Alternative member, supplementary vote and more

AV is being offered by both parties, STV is considered the best system by electoral reform campaigners.

AV means that you mark a second choice, and those second choices come into play by excluding the last placed party, assigning those votes to the other candidates, and so on until someone gets 50%

STV means that there are larger constituencies, 3-5 MP's per constituency, multiple candidates per party, and you mark you first, second, third choice etc. As soon as one candidate gets exactly the minimum votes required to be elected, all his remaining votes are distributed to the other candidates according to the second place preferences of his voters. Anyway, its way to hard too explain, check the link. This does seem fair though, maintains a link to the constituency, bad MP's can be voted out, all views are represented and Scotland would return conservatives, Sussex and Kent would have labour MP's

 

[jezzer]

BREAKING NEWS - tories and lib dem pact back on, labour dont want it! Libs will have to relent now.

 

[pasty]

BREAKING NEWS - tories and lib dem pact back on, labour dont want it! Libs will have to relent now.

Sauce ?

 

[jezzer]

Eh? Turn on the radio or tv mate!

 

[pasty]

Eh? Turn on the radio or tv mate!

Can't, at work.

 

[Don Quixote]

I think it will have to be a Conservative minority government. No way will the Lib Dems do a deal with any of them.

 

[drew]

So the only purpose of your governement would be to change the voting system and call another election. Brilliant, just the sort of stable government this country needs and what the people really want! Nothing cynical going on there is it.

Also by the way the party that would be worst effected by any change to the present FPTP system would be .......Labour. Labour 8M votes 258 seats, Tories 10M votes 306 seats, pretty obvious really.

Whatever coalition is formed it is hardly going to be a strong government. Clegg wants to be with the Tories and it now seems that is probable according to the pundits (at this moment in time, ie 15.45H). How long do you think it will last. Many Libdem members on the Radio are saying they don't want it.

All I am saying is that the stumbling block seems to have been electoral reform. Sort it out and then have another election. The coalition isn't going to last forever, maybe only until the party conference season when the Libdem party members tell their leaders where to go. Whether you like it or not, the Libdems are left of centre and, ideologically have more similarities to Labour than the Conservatives.

We could well have a referendum on electoral reform and FPTP wins but at least it will put the issue to bed for a number of years.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I think it will have to be a Conservative minority government. No way will the Lib Dems do a deal with any of them.

 

[SeagullRic]

I called him a cock not because of his red views but because he brought in personal insults yet again into an argument as clearly he cannot have a reasonable debate without doing this.

Luckily, you proved yourself to be above such childish jibes































Oh

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I think it will have to be a Conservative minority government. No way will the Lib Dems do a deal with any of them.

Lucky you're not a poltical analyst !