[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[BRIGHT ON Q]

It all went sooooooooo downhill from here last season.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Shockingly shite pretty well covers it for me. Not wanting to go to games and coming out feeling angry is no way to spend an afternoon or evening.

The only other time I have felt like this in 40 years plus of following the Albion was most of the Hyypia tenure.

Away game after away game...0-1 down....no sign of any changes....waiting for the inevitable...bang....two nil down....eventually some like for like changes....game peters out....opposition wins comfortably....frustrated journeys home....same old, same old....like a stuck record...reluctance to keep going....nothing hurts more than predictability...never mind....we are better at home....fine, until the wheels start coming off and we are equally poor at the Amex.
It was garbage. The three successive 1-0 wins in the Autumn were desperate affairs, hanging on for grim death, nerve wracking, bodies on the line, everyone behind the ball football. And now....easy on the eye, fluid, enjoyable, promising and totally different and better.

 

[saafend_seagull]

Fantastic, how have we ended up with less points at this point then? Is there a website called infodefensive****ups.net where we can check that

Let’s have a large bet. Hughtons 36 points versus ours this season. Otherwise please disappear.


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[London Irish]

Because just comparing the number of games played between 2 seasons doesn't take into account the quality of the opposition played. For example this season we've already faced all the big 6 away from home, normally you'd expect that run of games to be spread across the season.

As [MENTION=33965]FatSuperman[/MENTION] said if you compare results across the two seasons by opposition then we are actually 2 points better off. This isn't a fool proof way either as it doesn't account for teams strengthening or those that have been weakened by key injuries, sales of players etc but does provide a different comparison.

Agreed - and the strengthening is key, we spent the most ever at 60 million (and that doesn't take into account whatever fee we possibly may have gent agreed with Hudds over a permanent deal for Mooy). I think we'd want some return on that and we'd be disappointed with much less than the 23 points we have now, forgetting the comparison with Hughton which seems to produce more heat than light

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Agreed - and the strengthening is key, we spent the most ever at 60 million (and that doesn't take into account whatever fee we possibly may have gent agreed with Hudds over a permanent deal for Mooy). I think we'd want some return on that and we'd be disappointed with much less than the 23 points we have now, forgetting the comparison with Hughton which seems to produce more heat than light

The club has effectively broken the transfer record 4 times this season (if you include Mooy) - coupled with two of the younger players coming through - that means that half the team on the pitch is different from last season. This is to take nothing away from what Potter has done - the team has been much more effective going forward and are looking capable of staying up without too much difficulty. There is zero point in comparing this season with last season - every game is different, never mind every season. This team has progressed with better players available. Time will tell if they continue the form for the rest of the season - but there is every reason to be optimistic.

Last comment - people can complain about the quality of the football last season - every one knows it was dire - including Chris Hughton - but from his perspective his job was to maintain PL status - going out and playing entertaining football would have got the club relegated - the squad simply wasn't good enough. Complaining about the football without recognising the achievement that Hughton kept the club in the PL on a bottom 3 budget is really quite disingenuous.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Let’s have a large bet. Hughtons 36 points versus ours this season. Otherwise please disappear.


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This all day long.
[MENTION=1483]London Irish[/MENTION] I will give you 36 points. If Potter gets 36 or less I will donate £50 to REMF. If he gets 37 or more you do. Game on?


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[Bakero]

The club has effectively broken the transfer record 4 times this season (if you include Mooy) - coupled with two of the younger players coming through - that means that half the team on the pitch is different from last season. This is to take nothing away from what Potter has done - the team has been much more effective going forward and are looking capable of staying up without too much difficulty. There is zero point in comparing this season with last season - every game is different, never mind every season. This team has progressed with better players available. Time will tell if they continue the form for the rest of the season - but there is every reason to be optimistic.

Last comment - people can complain about the quality of the football last season - every one knows it was dire - including Chris Hughton - but from his perspective his job was to maintain PL status - going out and playing entertaining football would have got the club relegated - the squad simply wasn't good enough. Complaining about the football without recognising the achievement that Hughton kept the club in the PL on a bottom 3 budget is really quite disingenuous.

We broke our transfer record multiple times when CH was in charge.

 

[rogersix]

The club has effectively broken the transfer record 4 times this season (if you include Mooy) - coupled with two of the younger players coming through - that means that half the team on the pitch is different from last season. This is to take nothing away from what Potter has done - the team has been much more effective going forward and are looking capable of staying up without too much difficulty. There is zero point in comparing this season with last season - every game is different, never mind every season. This team has progressed with better players available. Time will tell if they continue the form for the rest of the season - but there is every reason to be optimistic.

Last comment - people can complain about the quality of the football last season - every one knows it was dire - including Chris Hughton - but from his perspective his job was to maintain PL status - going out and playing entertaining football would have got the club relegated - the squad simply wasn't good enough. Complaining about the football without recognising the achievement that Hughton kept the club in the PL on a bottom 3 budget is really quite disingenuous.

noone is doing that so you are still arguing with the wind

 

[Icy Gull]

The club has effectively broken the transfer record 4 times this season (if you include Mooy) - coupled with two of the younger players coming through - that means that half the team on the pitch is different from last season. This is to take nothing away from what Potter has done - the team has been much more effective going forward and are looking capable of staying up without too much difficulty. There is zero point in comparing this season with last season - every game is different, never mind every season. This team has progressed with better players available. Time will tell if they continue the form for the rest of the season - but there is every reason to be optimistic.

Last comment - people can complain about the quality of the football last season - every one knows it was dire - including Chris Hughton - but from his perspective his job was to maintain PL status - going out and playing entertaining football would have got the club relegated - the squad simply wasn't good enough. Complaining about the football without recognising the achievement that Hughton kept the club in the PL on a bottom 3 budget is really quite disingenuous.

What Chris Wilder is doing at Sheffield United would suggest that managers don’t need to go ultra defensive if they haven’t got the best or most expensive players. You make it sound like CH didn’t have a choice and most of your arguments suggest that he wasn’t given enough money so didn’t have the chance to play any other way. I may be wrong but think Wilder has spent much less than we spent in our first season in this division. (Notwithstanding that prices have increased over the last three seasons)

I’d suggest that we were so predicable that other managers sussed us and we couldn’t respond with a change of tactics.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Sheffield United next season.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I doubt whether Hughton's season two brief from Bloom was simply to keep us in the division, otherwise he wouldn't have got sacked.

The fact is that statistically we are a better football team than last season, and I think the overall quality of this year's Prem is beter than 18/19. It used to be the Top 6 were in a league of their own, whereas this season it's only 3 sides and one of those is Leicester.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

What Chris Wilder is doing at Sheffield United would suggest that managers don’t need to go ultra defensive if they haven’t got the best players. You make it sound like CH didn’t have a choice.

Not sure Hughton was ultra defensive until the very end vs Wolves and Spurs, and even then we had chances vs Spurs.

I would say Sheff Utd reminded me of us, in the first part of last year, very well organised and difficult to break down.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

I doubt whether Hughton's season two brief from Bloom was simply to keep us in the division, otherwise he wouldn't have got sacked.

The fact is that statistically we are a better football team than last season, and I think the overall quality of this year's Prem is beter than 18/19. It used to be the Top 6 were in a league of their own, whereas this season it's only 3 sides and one of those is Leicester.

Or alternatively the standard of the top 6 has dropped and Leicester have improved.

I mean Spurs are a lot worse, Arsenal haven’t improved and Chelsea and Utd have also gone backwards.

In fact even City defensively are a shadow of last season


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[Nixonator]

The club has effectively broken the transfer record 4 times this season (if you include Mooy) - coupled with two of the younger players coming through - that means that half the team on the pitch is different from last season. This is to take nothing away from what Potter has done - the team has been much more effective going forward and are looking capable of staying up without too much difficulty. There is zero point in comparing this season with last season - every game is different, never mind every season. This team has progressed with better players available. Time will tell if they continue the form for the rest of the season - but there is every reason to be optimistic.

Last comment - people can complain about the quality of the football last season - every one knows it was dire - including Chris Hughton - but from his perspective his job was to maintain PL status - going out and playing entertaining football would have got the club relegated - the squad simply wasn't good enough. Complaining about the football without recognising the achievement that Hughton kept the club in the PL on a bottom 3 budget is really quite disingenuous.

Everyone recognises that, I honestly don't think you'll find a single albion fan who doesn't because it would be ludicrous not to.

The club wanted to change our playing style, and where we will disagree I'm sure is that CH was not the man to do that. An increased budget playing the same way may or may not have kept us up. Radically changing the system with an increased budget may or may not keep us up. The decision was made to move forward with a different playing style and CH, for all other things he does well, does not do change gladly.

I get this awkward feeling with you still posting on here, like you are just waiting for things to turn sour so you can stick the boot in. I seem to remember you being less than complimentary of our owner not so long ago, so you clearly aren't 'one of us'.

 

[Icy Gull]

Not sure Hughton was ultra defensive until the very end vs Wolves and Spurs, and even then we had chances vs Spurs.

I would say Sheff Utd reminded me of us, in the first part of last year, very well organised and difficult to break down.


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I was watching a different team to you then. We were set up to soak up pressure and hope for something on an occasional break, which often worked because of GM. I don’t recall us playing away like SU did at the Amex.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Everyone recognises that, I honestly don't think you'll find a single albion fan who doesn't because it would be ludicrous not to.

The club wanted to change our playing style, and where we will disagree I'm sure is that CH was not the man to do that. An increased budget playing the same way may or may not have kept us up. Radically changing the system with an increased budget may or may not keep us up. The decision was made to move forward with a different playing style and CH, for all other things he does well, does not do change gladly.
us'.

Largely this.

I think CH would have come under increased pressure around October had he continued.

To adjust his playing style, I honestly believe he would have had to offload all his coaching staff, and started again.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

I was watching a different team to you then. We were set up to soak up pressure and hope for something on an occasional break, which often worked because of GM. I don’t recall us playing away like SU did at the Amex.

Well we won at Newcastle, went 2-0 up at West Ham and Fulham, plus scored twice at Stains, which would suggest we were anything other than ultra defensive.

How many chances did Sheff Utd create other than a set-piece? One perhaps two, very similar to ourselves.

Very well organised and difficult to breakdown, though it was a poor performance by ourselves.


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[Pavilionaire]

Or alternatively the standard of the top 6 has dropped and Leicester has improved.

I mean Spurs are a lot worse, Arsenal haven’t improved and Chelsea and Utd have also gone backwards.

In fact even City defensively are a shadow of last season


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All valid points but we know Watford are not a bad team - they're pretty much the same side that did well last season - yet have spent virtually half a season bottom of the table. Norwich beat City, Southampton and Bournemouth beat Chelsea, Wolves and Leicester look strong, Sheff Utd too.

I fancy this Albion team would have taken 6 points off Cardiff, Hudds and at least 4 off Fulham.

 

[Icy Gull]

Well we won at Newcastle, went 2-0 up at West Ham and Fulham, plus scored twice at Stains, which would suggest we were anything other than ultra defensive.

How many chances did Sheff Utd create other than a set-piece? One perhaps two, very similar to ourselves.

Very well organised and difficult to breakdown, though it was a poor performance by ourselves.


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The games against WHU and Fulham made CH revert to defending and taking no risks. It was his and our undoing..imo

We were murdered at Newcastle and rode our luck with a lucky goal, again imo. Apart from WHU and Fulham I don’t recall us taking the game to anyone else away from home. Memory is fuzzy but weren’t we 2-0 down at Southampton so why wouldn’t we go for it? All four of the teams mentioned were piss poor all season too.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

All valid points but we know Watford are not a bad team - they're pretty much the same side that did well last season - yet have spent virtually half a season bottom of the table. Norwich beat City, Southampton and Bournemouth beat Chelsea, Wolves and Leicester look strong, Sheff Utd too.

I fancy this Albion team would have taken 6 points off Cardiff, Hudds and at least 4 off Fulham.

Did you go to Watford - they were shocking, so were Norwich, every bit as bad as Huddersfield. In all honesty I wasn’t very impressed with Sheff Utd either, we made it very easy with the Webster error and other than that they had a reliance on set pieces.

Fair comment though re our current team, I think we would have taken 6 points off Cardiff and probably Fulham.

BTW we did take 6 off Huddersfield [emoji6][emoji106]


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[Weststander]

Shockingly shite pretty well covers it for me. Not wanting to go to games and coming out feeling angry is no way to spend an afternoon or evening.

The only other time I have felt like this in 40 years plus of following the Albion was most of the Hyypia tenure.

When always positive and loyal supporters such as you started feeling that way, and similarly some mod’s couldn’t be arsed to attend some Amex PL matches, in hindsight, all signs that the writing was on the wall. We now know that lifelong fan TB was equally p’d off.

I left when Bmuff made it 3-0, thought I’d sneak away to get on the first park n ride bus. Wrong. Met by many thousand glum-looking, silent folk there already.