Video of Ashley Barnes' sending off at Bolton

[Acker79]

How many game is his ban as I thought foul and abusive language was 2 games but violent conduct 3 games plus of course an extra game for being the 2nd red card this season.

You're right about those ban times.

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/Files/TheFAPortal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/section-a---field-offences-in-first-team-matches.ashx

(b) PLAYERS SENT OFF UNDER LAW 12 (7)
Subject to the provision of 8(a)(iv) above, player who is dismissed from the Field of Play for
receiving a second caution in the same match will be suspended automatically from FTCM
forthwith until his Club’s First Team has completed its next FTCM.

(c) PLAYERS SENT OFF UNDER LAW 12 (4) and (5)
A Player who is dismissed from the Field of Play for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring
opportunity by physical means or by handling the ball, will be suspended automatically
from FTCM commencing forthwith, until such time as his Club has completed its next FTCM.

(d) PLAYERS SENT OFF UNDER LAW 12 (6)
A Player who is dismissed from the Field of Play for using offensive or insulting or abusive
language/gestures, whether he has previously been cautioned in the match or not, will be
suspended automatically from FTCM commencing forthwith, and until such time as his
Club’s First Team has completed its next two FTCM.

(e) PLAYERS SENT OFF UNDER LAW 12 (1), (2) AND (3)
A Player who is dismissed from the Field of Play for Violent Conduct, Serious Foul Play or
spitting at an opponent or any other person, whether he has previously been cautioned
in the match or not, will be suspended automatically from all Club football, except for any
match sanctioned or regarded by The Football Association as a Friendly Match, including
non-First Team matches commencing forthwith and until such time as his Club’s First Team
has completed its next three matches in approved Competitions.

...

(g) Players dismissed from the Field of Play in a FTCM, having previously in the same season
been sent off
in a FTCM (or suspended under the Standard Directions set out in Schedule
A in these Regulations for an incident in a FTCM), will be suspended for one extra match
for each such previous sending off
or suspension, in addition to the automatic suspension
applicable to the dismissal.​

Those are the punishments for red cards. It comes down to whether the trip is considered (d) violent conduct (since the ball wasn't there!) or if it is considered (e) "foul or abusive or insulting gesture" since it was more petty dissent than excessive aggression.

 

[nwgull]

I think those suspension guides are for when the offence is against another player. It's a completely different kettle of fish when the referee is on the receiving end. IF the evidence is conclusive then I'd be surprised if he plays another league game this season.

 

[Acker79]

I think those suspension guides are for when the offence is against another player. It's a completely different kettle of fish when the referee is on the receiving end. IF the evidence is conclusive then I'd be surprised if he plays another league game this season.

There is more in the link.

Those are the basic punishments for breaking the laws of the game. The laws themselves actually include the referee as potential victim of offence, so the punishment is assumed as the same.

However, there is Rule E3 (number 7 in the link, page 8):

(b) A Player may be charged by The Association under Rule E3 in relation to certain on-field
incidents for which the Player was dismissed, pursuant to Regulation 8(j) below, where The
Association is satisfi ed that the standard punishment that would otherwise apply following
the dismissal is clearly insufficient.

...

(g) The standard punishment shall be increased where The Association satisfi es the
Commission so that it is sure that:

(i) The circumstances of the dismissal under review are truly exceptional, such that
the standard punishment should not be applied; and
(ii) The standard punishment would be clealy insufficient.​

(h) In considering the matters at (g) above, the Commission shall have regard to:

(a) The applicable Law(s) of the Game and any relevant FIFA instructions and/or
guidelines;
(b) The nature of the dismissal offence, and particular any intent, recklessness,
negligence or other state of mind of the Player;
(c) Where applicable, the level of force used;
(d) Any injury to an opponent caused by the dismissal offence;
(e) Any other impact on the game in which the dismissal occurred;
(f ) The prevalence of the type of offence in question in football generally;
(g) The wider interests of football in applying consistent punishments for dismissal
offences;​

Looking at that list, I would think it unlikely that Rule E3 is applied.
b) it wasn't reckless or negligent, it was petulant.
c) it was not very forceful
d) no injury occurred
e) full time whistle went less than a minute later, there was no impact
f) it isn't something you see often
g) is there a wider interest? If this stays as a 3 match ban will it make people more likely to try to trip a referee since Barnes only got banned for three games? is it really high profile enough to have a wide impact?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

S]eagulls boss Gus Poyet felt Barnes deserved his red card, though he sympathised with the 23-year-old.

Poyet told Sky Sports: 'In football sometimes you do things that regret after, but (I have) nothing to complain about.
'
I think you would normally probably say you're not happy with him (Barnes).

'Angry? It's difficult to say because I played football, I know when you're on the pitch you do things which sometimes you regret after.

'But I was one of those players so I'm not going to say anything to Ashley Barnes - I hope it doesn't happen too much.

'He knows what he's done and I'm not going to kill him, you try to make sure he controls himself better the next time.'




GRAHAM POLL'S VERDICT

I sometimes wondered if contact with players was done deliberately but as I was not 100 per cent sure I tended to laugh the incidents off.
However, this video shows that Ashley Barnes certainly tried to trip referee Nigel Miller who saw the act and rightly sent Barnes off.
There were plenty of acts of disrespect this weekend but none more blatant than this and thankfully Barnes’ manager Gus Poyet refused to defend his player's stupidity.
Now the FA will have to decide of the standard suspension is appropriate or decide to increase it[/I].[/I]


Poyet's comments again worry me regarding Barnes. How the hell can you be sympathetic when such a idiotic act like this has been perpetrated by one of your players.

Secondly and more importantly showing any sympathy for his actions will, I fear, really backfire on the club. We appear to have a reputation for moaning, diving, and the manager/staff constantly in the ear of officials. this if not handled correctly will send out all the wrong messages to the FA and especially the officials. Considering some of the disciplinary issues we have had in the past we need to, as a club rise above this or we are unlikely to get the "rub of the green", so to say.

 

[seagulls4ever]

S]eagulls boss Gus Poyet felt Barnes deserved his red card, though he sympathised with the 23-year-old.

Poyet told Sky Sports: 'In football sometimes you do things that regret after, but (I have) nothing to complain about.
'
I think you would normally probably say you're not happy with him (Barnes).



'Angry? It's difficult to say because I played football, I know when you're on the pitch you do things which sometimes you regret after.

'But I was one of those players so I'm not going to say anything to Ashley Barnes - I hope it doesn't happen too much.

'He knows what he's done and I'm not going to kill him, you try to make sure he controls himself better the next time.'




GRAHAM POLL'S VERDICT

I sometimes wondered if contact with players was done deliberately but as I was not 100 per cent sure I tended to laugh the incidents off.
However, this video shows that Ashley Barnes certainly tried to trip referee Nigel Miller who saw the act and rightly sent Barnes off.
There were plenty of acts of disrespect this weekend but none more blatant than this and thankfully Barnes’ manager Gus Poyet refused to defend his player's stupidity.
Now the FA will have to decide of the standard suspension is appropriate or decide to increase it[/I].[/I]


Poyet's comments again worry me regarding Barnes. How the hell can you be sympathetic when such a idiotic act like this has been perpetrated by one of your players.

Secondly and more importantly showing any sympathy for his actions will, I fear, really backfire on the club. We appear to have a reputation for moaning, diving, and the manager/staff constantly in the ear of officials. this if not handled correctly will send out all the wrong messages to the FA and especially the officials. Considering some of the disciplinary issues we have had in the past we need to, as a club rise above this or we are unlikely to get the "rub of the green", so to say.

Isn't that Poyet quote in relation to his sending off a few weeks ago rather than his one yesterday?

 

[seagulls4ever]

Seems you are the victim of lazy journalism, which will not reflect well on the club. Where did you get that quote from?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Seems you are the victim of lazy journalism, which will not reflect well on the club. Where did you get that quote from?

I do agree. When I first read it I thought the same but its from here;

Ashley Barnes referee trip red card | Mail Online

Also the Telegraph

 

[seagulls4ever]

Daily Mail? Why am I not surprised...

 

[Acker79]

I do agree. When I first read it I thought the same but its from here;

Ashley Barnes referee trip red card | Mail Online

Also the Telegraph

The article they quote:
Gus Poyet says referee right to send Ashley Barnes off | Brighton Football News, Fixtures, Results, Table | Sky Sports < sheffield wednesday red card

Sky's only article at the moment on yesterday's red card:
Gus Poyet uses calm approach to red card in Brighton's defeat at Bolton | Brighton Football News, Fixtures, Results, Table | Sky Sports

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The article they quote:
Gus Poyet says referee right to send Ashley Barnes off | Brighton Football News, Fixtures, Results, Table | Sky Sports < sheffield wednesday red card

Sky's only article at the moment on yesterday's red card:
Gus Poyet uses calm approach to red card in Brighton's defeat at Bolton | Brighton Football News, Fixtures, Results, Table | Sky Sports

Interesting. As seagulls4ever posted will not reflect well. As I posted the club should double their efforts to distance themselves and perhaps also complain about this article!

 

[Pavilionaire]

The race for the play-offs is so tight it's perfectly conceivable this ban could make the difference. Ulloa is not the sort of player to go 90 minutes for every game until the end of the season, while a loan player is a bit of a lottery. No goals in 2 matches shows there's already a problem.

Barnes will be very lucky if he manages to get another chance of 1st XI action again. And his CV's not looking too good with those back-to-back red cards. I admire him for winning over so many fans last season, but now feel he's a sending off waiting to happen.

 

[Arkwright]

Interesting. As seagulls4ever posted will not reflect well. As I posted the club should double their efforts to distance themselves and perhaps also complain about this article!

The club should nip this in the bud early and issue an official statement with our own fines / punishment and be seen to be pro-active with our own in-house discipline.

Fine something like a months wages and ban him for the next six games. May seem harsh but players must be seen to have respect, pointless the players wearing "Respect" T-Shirts if they don't have any.

And this is coming from a fan of Barnes. If Barnes doesn't like it put him on the transfer list, we don't need this sort of rubbish at our club.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The race for the play-offs is so tight it's perfectly conceivable this ban could make the difference. Ulloa is not the sort of player to go 90 minutes for every game until the end of the season, while a loan player is a bit of a lottery. No goals in 2 matches shows there's already a problem.

Barnes will be very lucky if he manages to get another chance of 1st XI action again. And his CV's not looking too good with those back-to-back red cards. I admire him for winning over so many fans last season, but now feel he's a sending off waiting to happen.

I wonder if fans were so harsh on Tanno two years ago. He got a red card at Woking in the FA cup and then another for swearing at the ref at Southampton. I don't remember many asking for him to be drummed out of the club.

 

[Acker79]

The club should nip this in the bud early and issue an official statement with our own fines / punishment and be seen to be pro-active with our own in-house discipline.

Fine something like a months wages and ban him for the next six games. May seem harsh but players must be seen to have respect, pointless the players wearing "Respect" T-Shirts if they don't have any.

And this is coming from a fan of Barnes. If Barnes doesn't like it put him on the transfer list, we don't need this sort of rubbish at our club.

I believe clubs are limited to two week wages when fining a player because of deals with the PFA.

 

[Rugrat]

The club should nip this in the bud early

I get what you're saying in your post but Barnes has been "threatening" this for ages. He has frequently demonstrated a lack of discipline (petulance is often used to describe) and this was really just the culmination. I'm surprised the club hasn't dealt with it before (nip it in the bud then not now) and if they've been trying then why on earth have they failed so badly?

 

[Acker79]

I get what you're saying in your post but Barnes has been "threatening" this for ages. He has frequently demonstrated a lack of discipline (petulance is often used to describe) and this was really just the culmination. I'm surprised the club hasn't dealt with it before (nip it in the bud then not now) and if they've been trying then why on earth have they failed so badly?

Video: Barnes facing big ban From The Argus)

Poyet said: "I didn’t expect that from Ash. More than the result I think that was the worst part of the game.

"He already had a problem. We thought it was over after Sheffield Wednesday, so we need to go a bit deeper into his character and we’ll sort it out internally. "What happened before I accepted, because me, Tano and Charlie have all reacted like that before. Once in a while you can accept but these are too close to each other and not acceptable."​

 

[Stat Brother]

The club should nip this in the bud early and issue an official statement with our own fines / punishment and be seen to be pro-active with our own in-house discipline.

Fine something like a months wages and ban him for the next six games. May seem harsh but players must be seen to have respect, pointless the players wearing "Respect" T-Shirts if they don't have any.

And this is coming from a fan of Barnes. If Barnes doesn't like it put him on the transfer list, we don't need this sort of rubbish at our club.

Sadly the club shouldn't ban Barnes, as the FA will still need to and be seen to take action.

Fergie Banned Cantona for his reasoned discussion with the Palace fan, then the FA tagged on x amount more games.

Assuming the FA aren't happy and will insist on protecting referees a six game game ban from the club will have them adding 4 more, with possibly a play off caveat.

Whereas leaving it to the FA may well result in a 6 game ban.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I wonder if fans were so harsh on Tanno two years ago. He got a red card at Woking in the FA cup and then another for swearing at the ref at Southampton. I don't remember many asking for him to be drummed out of the club.

1. One fit striker.
2. He tripped THE REF.
3. Red mist AGAIN.

So not the same thing.

 

[Rugrat]

Video: Barnes facing big ban From The Argus)

Poyet said: "I didn’t expect that from Ash. More than the result I think that was the worst part of the game.

"He already had a problem. We thought it was over after Sheffield Wednesday, so we need to go a bit deeper into his character and we’ll sort it out internally. "What happened before I accepted, because me, Tano and Charlie have all reacted like that before. Once in a while you can accept but these are too close to each other and not acceptable."​

Yes I saw that and I was surprised at the statement. I'd have thought Gus might have said "we thought it was over before the Sheff Wed incident". He is now saying the 2 cards are too close together but his antics on the field (facing up, wild lunges, in the ref's face etc) warranted something be done before he got these cards not afterwards

Anyway I'm fairly sure this will be a defining moment, either he'll go or will get such an uber bollacking that he'll grow up sharpish

 

[kevtherev]

Classic case of one rule for one and one for another. Sparrow's and Vincelot sealed their fate at this club for getting sent off in games and they got sent off the proper way. Not for try trying to trip up the ref, the irony is Barnes even messed that up. If what is being reported is correct, then it say's as much about Poyet than it does about Barnes.