sten_super
Brain Surgeon
- Thread starter
- #61
It won't. Having read around it a bit more, these recommendations (if bought in) would be in time for the 2012 entry.
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University tuition fees
- Thread starter sten_super
- Start date
It won't. Having read around it a bit more, these recommendations (if bought in) would be in time for the 2012 entry.
Djmiles
Barndoor Holroyd
That's the thing though, your parents don't have to pay a penny if they don't want to. You just get loans for the tuition fees and living expenses, it just means at the end of the day YOU are more in debt.
I went to University 5 years ago, and got a basic grant of £1,100 for tuition fees and £3,100 for living expenses for the year. My accomodation was £2,900, which left me (and everyone else) with £200 to buy EVERYTHING for the year. It just meant I had to work a bit more when I was at college, and take on part time work at University. Ironically both jobs have probably helped me more after leaving University than my degree itself which isn't worth the paper it's written on. Why? Because about 45% of young people now have degrees.
In short, if you want to go to University, you sure as hell better work for it unless you want to scrounge off of your parents. Good luck to you.
The loan system was originally intended to supplement the grant system...with grants frozen. But then this changed and grants were gradually withdrawn. I'm not quite sure where you're coming from by saying I'm twisting things.
Nowhere did I say i wanted to scrounge of my parents, i said that they wouldnt have the money to LEND to me in order to cover the fees, living costs and so on. It will all be paid for by myself, but if that means coming out with a 40k debt then it doesnt seem worthwhile, added to the 3 years I could be earning.
All depends on the degree that you choose to study, many of those offered at the ex poly's arent even worth applying for, because they wont get you anywhere, and almost certainly enable one to gain back the 75k-80k debt they've attained over those who didnt go in wages. (£40k for Uni costs + 3 years lost wages).
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
Exactly
Djmiles
Barndoor Holroyd
Sorry I wasn't implying that you would scrounge, but I'm just saying you will have to be prepared to take on work if you parents can't lend you money, which is a situation I found myself in.
CliveWalkerWingWizard
Well-known member
Over time my politics have mellowed, always been a socialist and leaning to the left but I thought that all the parties were competing for the middle ground and previous to this election I did not think it would make a great difference if the tories got back in. I believed this even more with a small majority and tempered by a liberal coalition.
How wrong I was - there appears to be a huge swing to the right, but this policy is madness and ulimately will affect those on middle incomes. Yes it can be argued that it is our childrens debt and not ours but how much money will our children need to earn to afford to buy a property and pay of 30K+ of debt? These recommendations give a carte blanche to the top university to charge whatever they want (even with penalties they will keep 50% of fees over 6K). This makes these elitist universities even more elitist. Who is going to get places ? bright student with 4 A*s from a family earning 50K or Farquar Ponsenby Jones who gets 4A's from a private school and has a private tutor and daddy gets 500K per year? This report is a disgrace.
How wrong I was - there appears to be a huge swing to the right, but this policy is madness and ulimately will affect those on middle incomes. Yes it can be argued that it is our childrens debt and not ours but how much money will our children need to earn to afford to buy a property and pay of 30K+ of debt? These recommendations give a carte blanche to the top university to charge whatever they want (even with penalties they will keep 50% of fees over 6K). This makes these elitist universities even more elitist. Who is going to get places ? bright student with 4 A*s from a family earning 50K or Farquar Ponsenby Jones who gets 4A's from a private school and has a private tutor and daddy gets 500K per year? This report is a disgrace.
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Exactly, and it only enhances the stereotype about the Tories. I just cant believe that its even got as far as being considered, its just completely ludicrous. As you say, currently me, and others my age (and obviously younger) are looking at coming out with 40K debts, a struggle to get a job, and the task of trying to get on the housing market.
Its bloody impossible.
Westdene Wonder
New member
Blair used the Education, Education etc to encourage many more students to go on to university thereby keeping them off the un-employed list. Then to assist even more students to apply increasing numbers of them found they had achieved top "A" level results [a coincidence of course].Many families then found they were unexpectedly in a position to support their children in the belief that they were setting them up for life,however the situation in reality was that there were so many graduates looking for employment that the odds of them getting a decent career was worsening year by year,last year there were on average 79 applicants applying for each vacancy.
To make things even worse when they applied for lesser jobs they were considered over educated.
Many not only have the disappointment of not achieving but the feeling of guilt seeing their parents still paying off their loans.
To make things even worse when they applied for lesser jobs they were considered over educated.
Many not only have the disappointment of not achieving but the feeling of guilt seeing their parents still paying off their loans.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,862
its not a left/right partisan political thing, Labours policy was wrong, this just make it more wrong and impacts on the country's future.
it doesnt even seem to address why there is a funding problem in the first place. theres the elephant in the room. for twenty years of funding by bums on seats means we end up with a generation of average graduates (i count myself in that number). cut the number of places in half, pay on basis of completed courses and results, and the funding problem vanishes.
instead we end up with the worst of everything. the poor and bright will be put off going (even if they dont have to pay), while the bright aspiring middle classes have to pay through the nose on the basis of their parent wealth. theres no alternative for the average college leaver so engendering a generation who will feel they have achieved less than their parents, and the gap between good and bad universities will be accentuated by costs and the market: the top ones will charge more, the crap ones will compete in a race to the bottom including standards and standing.
it doesnt even seem to address why there is a funding problem in the first place. theres the elephant in the room. for twenty years of funding by bums on seats means we end up with a generation of average graduates (i count myself in that number). cut the number of places in half, pay on basis of completed courses and results, and the funding problem vanishes.
instead we end up with the worst of everything. the poor and bright will be put off going (even if they dont have to pay), while the bright aspiring middle classes have to pay through the nose on the basis of their parent wealth. theres no alternative for the average college leaver so engendering a generation who will feel they have achieved less than their parents, and the gap between good and bad universities will be accentuated by costs and the market: the top ones will charge more, the crap ones will compete in a race to the bottom including standards and standing.
The new system will commence in 2012/13.
There will be a student grant of £3,250 for those who come from households with income of less than £25,000, and this grant will then taper down to zero for households with income of more than £60,000.
Will it repay the national debt in terms of cash flow? Not really, there is a 70% reduction in HE funding proposed, which will clearly save money, but then there will be higher student loans granted to make up this shortfall in funding, assuming that student numbers are maintained.
The debt will only start to decrease once the new higher fees are being repaid, but this will not be until 2015/16 at the earliest, and that is assuming that graduates are earning more than £21k.
The only advantage from the government's point of view is that the fees advanced will be on balance sheet, so can from an accounting point of view be offset against the national debt, but it's financial fun and games rather than repayment of the deficit.
There will be a student grant of £3,250 for those who come from households with income of less than £25,000, and this grant will then taper down to zero for households with income of more than £60,000.
Will it repay the national debt in terms of cash flow? Not really, there is a 70% reduction in HE funding proposed, which will clearly save money, but then there will be higher student loans granted to make up this shortfall in funding, assuming that student numbers are maintained.
The debt will only start to decrease once the new higher fees are being repaid, but this will not be until 2015/16 at the earliest, and that is assuming that graduates are earning more than £21k.
The only advantage from the government's point of view is that the fees advanced will be on balance sheet, so can from an accounting point of view be offset against the national debt, but it's financial fun and games rather than repayment of the deficit.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Do I understand this correctly?
The country is in debt. So the solution is to increase debt.
How does this help?
The country is in debt. So the solution is to increase debt.
How does this help?
Lord Bracknell
On fire
At least graduates won't be able to afford mortgages.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,862
they've been kicking this problem around for years, its got bugger all to do with the deficit.
RexCathedra
Aurea Mediocritas
Dandyman has seen the future.
Welcome to my world.
Son, 21, Carnegie-Mellon University -- unmet need, $19,500 p/a
Daughter, 19, Wellesley College (Mrs. Clinton's alma mater) -- unmet need, $9,300.
29 large, more or less. Times 4 years. We pay some, they borrow some, we borrow some. Luckily an Obama administration bill caps their payments at 10% of annual gross income, and if they're still on the hook after 20 years, the feds eat the balance.
Nothing like that for us, except my life insurance.
Welcome to my world.
Son, 21, Carnegie-Mellon University -- unmet need, $19,500 p/a
Daughter, 19, Wellesley College (Mrs. Clinton's alma mater) -- unmet need, $9,300.
29 large, more or less. Times 4 years. We pay some, they borrow some, we borrow some. Luckily an Obama administration bill caps their payments at 10% of annual gross income, and if they're still on the hook after 20 years, the feds eat the balance.
Nothing like that for us, except my life insurance.
RexCathedra
Aurea Mediocritas
It's a top-5 school in my son's major, so we think it's a good long-term bet....
...and sadly many students will choose a university based on financial decisions and not academic merit. The whole thing stinks.
This will hit middle England very very hard. The only good thing to come out of all of this is that a couple of nice statements about education and child-benefit from Ed will see even more people moving over to Labour.