[Technology] UK's last coal fired power station closes...

[Machiavelli]

The irony, for many, is that Mrs Thatcher was right all along.

She was right for the wrong reasons on shutting down coal -- it's made the most meaningful contribution to the decline in UK carbon emissions. Given her scientific background, she was also early to recognising the impact of climate change -- I'm less keen on the solutions she offered to it though.

 

[GT49er]

Well we should jolly well keep some mines open, just for you and your friends.

Well, yes, partly we should. There was recently a proposal to open a small open cast coal mine (in Cumbria, I think) specifically, or mainly, to supply this need. Killjoy powers that be soon put a stop to that - viva Russian coal, viva Indian steel!

 

[nicko31]

Tell that to China and India.

Think you’ll find China is already up to 50 percent renewables on their grid and is creating the quantity of scale to make the electricity transition affordable, eg solar panels, batteries, EVs…

 

[Cotton Socks]

Hopefully soon it'll be near impossible to get hold of. These things need to stay in the past while the climate is in crisis.

Well we should jolly well keep some mines open, just for you and your friends.

So you'd both be happy for the Bluebell railway to close? It costs a lot to run it & a lot of hard work is put in by volunteers. Some of them stay overnight in makeshift 'sleeper' carriages so they can be there at a certain time in the morning to start everything up. I'm not saying that the mine shouldn't close but you both don't seem to care if things like the Bluebell railway have to close. It's a working museum that managed to get the line extended to Uckfield which some strange commuters actually use. Seems odd that you'd be happy for things like that to close.
Edit to add... I mean the extension was to East Grinstead not Uckfield (as it's been quoted, I can't change it).

 

[beorhthelm]

one day, in about 10-20 years when it's all rather too late, we'll realise what net zero meant. stop burning coal for power is good, stop using coal in blast furnaces not so much. you're still going to use the steel so just defering the emissions elsewhere. there's a lot of self-deceptions and dishonesty about the outcomes of these decisions.

 

[Mustafa II]

So you'd both be happy for the Bluebell railway to close? It costs a lot to run it & a lot of hard work is put in by volunteers. Some of them stay overnight in makeshift 'sleeper' carriages so they can be there at a certain time in the morning to start everything up. I'm not saying that the mine shouldn't close but you both don't seem to care if things like the Bluebell railway have to close. It's a working museum that managed to get the line extended to Uckfield which some strange commuters actually use. Seems odd that you'd be happy for things like that to close.

I would suggest converting to electric boilers or some other more environmentally friendly fuel.

This is a climate emergency. We can't say certain environmentally destructive things are okay, just because some people enjoy it.

 

[Fungus]

Tell that to China and India.

Both huge renewable energy producers.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So you'd both be happy for the Bluebell railway to close? It costs a lot to run it & a lot of hard work is put in by volunteers. Some of them stay overnight in makeshift 'sleeper' carriages so they can be there at a certain time in the morning to start everything up. I'm not saying that the mine shouldn't close but you both don't seem to care if things like the Bluebell railway have to close. It's a working museum that managed to get the line extended to Uckfield which some strange commuters actually use. Seems odd that you'd be happy for things like that to close.

I don't think that subsidizing (nationalizing?) some coal mines in the UK is justified just to keep the Bluebell line open. In any case why can't 'we' import some coal from India for such purposes?

The story is about the closure of the last UK coal fired power station is it not (unless I have lost the plot which is quite possible).

Edit, no it is about the closure of coal fired power stations, not an end to coal. Blame Junior for the derailment. Rather careless for a steam buff, frankly.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I would suggest converting to electric boilers or some other more environmentally friendly fuel.

This is a climate emergency. We can't say certain environmentally destructive things are okay, just because some people enjoy it.

It's a small steam railway, if they can't afford the coal then they'll be highly unlikely to afford to convert to electric boilers., Now I don't know much about old steam trains but I do know they can't have electric boilers & that even the rail isn't electrified. Are they supposed to just have a couple of charging points installed if they could be converted? It's going to take a bit more than an overnight charge to power the Flying Scotsman.
Yes we can actually say that some things should be given dispensation for keeping history alive & thousands of people getting enjoyment from it.
You didn't answer the question of whether you own a car & I have another question of whether you go abroad for holidays on a plane?
There are a lot of kids in Sussex who don't get the opportunity to go on 'holiday' & having a trip on the railway for a few miles is bloody amazing for them. Personally I think it's really boring before you think I'm an avid trainspotter.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The irony, for many, is that Mrs Thatcher was right all along.

She wanted to sell the coal mines off, not close them down.

The irony is that Arthur Scargill appears to have been right all along

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

She was right for the wrong reasons on shutting down coal -- it's made the most meaningful contribution to the decline in UK carbon emissions. Given her scientific background, she was also early to recognising the impact of climate change -- I'm less keen on the solutions she offered to it though.

She said that Britain’s future was the finance sector and with that one statement made manufacturing a dirty word.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting data. We can indeed import coal (mostly from the US these days, astonishingly).

But there is no demand anymore.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I don't think that subsidizing (nationalizing?) some coal mines in the UK is justified just to keep the Bluebell line open. In any case why can't 'we' import some coal from India for such purposes?

The story is about the closure of the last UK coal fired power station is it not (unless I have lost the plot which is quite possible).

No it's not you losing the plot, but you & @Mustafa II seemed to be happy for things like that to close (just in general, as they use outdated fuel). Maybe I misread your contribution but Mustafa II seems to think we should shut the heritage lines down full stop as they use coal. I didn't say that the mine shouldn't be shut & I thought I made that clear (I probably didn't as it's been a loooong day). I'm not derailing the thread (do you see what I did there) by making the point that some things should get dispensation for using coal.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You can buy coal on Amazon. And it makes genuine smoke. The Bluebell line is safe!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No it's not you losing the plot, but you & @Mustafa II seemed to be happy for things like that to close (just in general, as they use outdated fuel). Maybe I misread your contribution but Mustafa II seems to think we should shut the heritage lines down full stop as they use coal. I didn't say that the mine shouldn't be shut & I thought I made that clear (I probably didn't as it's been a loooong day). I'm not derailing the thread (do you see what I did there) by making the point that some things should get dispensation for using coal.

Yes, but Mustafa is a gold-plated idiot (as confirmed by a poll).

 

[Mustafa II]

It's a small steam railway, if they can't afford the coal then they'll be highly unlikely to afford to convert to electric boilers., Now I don't know much about old steam trains but I do know they can't have electric boilers & that even the rail isn't electrified. Are they supposed to just have a couple of charging points installed if they could be converted? It's going to take a bit more than an overnight charge to power the Flying Scotsman.
Yes we can actually say that some things should be given dispensation for keeping history alive & thousands of people getting enjoyment from it.
You didn't answer the question of whether you own a car & I have another question of whether you go abroad for holidays on a plane?
There are a lot of kids in Sussex who don't get the opportunity to go on 'holiday' & having a trip on the railway for a few miles is bloody amazing for them. Personally I think it's really boring before you think I'm an avid trainspotter.

No it's not you losing the plot, but you & @Mustafa II seemed to be happy for things like that to close (just in general, as they use outdated fuel). Maybe I misread your contribution but Mustafa II seems to think we should shut the heritage lines down full stop as they use coal. I didn't say that the mine shouldn't be shut & I thought I made that clear (I probably didn't as it's been a loooong day). I'm not derailing the thread (do you see what I did there) by making the point that some things should get dispensation for using coal.

I appreciate your thoughtful replies here.

We need to make extreme sacrifices in order to save the planet. It's probably too little too late already, but we need to fight this the best we can and we might recover it and save the future of humanity.

ALL harmful high pollution and greenhouse activities need to end immediately... but particularly those that are non-essential.

There are surely solutions for the likes of Bluebell Railway and all the other countless steam train charities all around the world to convert to green alternatives. I am sure electric boilers is an option, if not other innovative solutions. If using environmentally destructive coal is the only option then, yes, it needs to end, sadly. At least for now.

Cars and planes are an unfortunate necessity at the moment, and while they do need to end, it's simply not practical as a political solution right now, but I would argue that the governments of this world should be doing considerably more to reduce, if not end completely, the use of oil in recreational travel... and also commercial activity where possible.

 

[beorhthelm]

I appreciate your thoughtful replies here.

We need to make extreme sacrifices in order to save the planet. It's probably too little too late already, but we need to fight this the best we can and we might recover it and save the future of humanity.

ALL harmful high pollution and greenhouse activities need to end immediately... but particularly those that are non-essential.

There are surely solutions for the likes of Bluebell Railway and all the other countless steam train charities all around the world to convert to green alternatives. I am sure electric boilers is an option, if not other innovative solutions. If using environmentally destructive coal is the only option then, yes, it needs to end, sadly. At least for now.

Cars and planes are an unfortunate necessity at the moment, and while they do need to end, it's simply not practical as a political solution right now, but I would argue that the governments of this world should be doing considerably more to reduce, if not end completely, the use of oil in recreational travel... and also commercial activity where possible.

the entire point of a steam train is they are running on the original old steam engines. an electric boiler negates this even if it were viable to swap in.

you might want to look up the total pollution and greenhouse emission of your internet use, then cut that.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Surely this is completely uncontroversial.
Using cleaner fuels/energy sources to generate electricity - good.
Importing steel when we could/should make it here (and should invest in the cleanest way to do that) - bad. I guess in a less buggered up world the idea of relying on imports and investing in something else instead might be more appealing.

Quite how we get from there to an argument about the moral hazard associated with heritage railways is beyond me.

 

[abc]

She wanted to sell the coal mines off, not close them down.

The irony is that Arthur Scargill appears to have been right all along

Sorry, genuinely don’t understand that. Please explain

 

[Cotton Socks]

You can buy coal on Amazon. And it makes genuine smoke. The Bluebell line is safe!

View attachment 189614

Now you're just being silly.
After Googling this, as the trainspotter I know is being a selfish git & is too busy to give me 'proper' information I'm going to blag it and say that they use smokeless coal as they don't need the smoke (just heat) and a large percentage that comes out of the funnel is steam. I already called him to ask about boiler conversions.
Think of all those kids who won't get to see Thomas if it's closed down!! Thomas isn't actually there anymore and I'm to scared to mention 'Diesel' from the books!