rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,185
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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
- Aug 24, 2020
- 6,565
That's the key point. Is working from home in their contracts? I'm sure it will be.
If JRM wants them to return to working in the office, either full-time, more often than they currently are, or more often than their current contracts of employment allow, then he needs to get their employers to open negotiations with them. Leaving memoes on their desks doesn't really cut it.
Edited
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
Point taken re desks etc. and I take your point regarding commuting but there has to be a balance.
My point is (and my wife is a Civil Servant so I hear about this issue every day) SOME are taking the mick.
Three examples (all from last week)
"Can we delay this afternoon' s (virtual) meeting - I've got the dog to walk"
"Won't be a minute, I'll just put the ironing board away"
"Let me get back to you - I need to put the dinner on"
Three examples - all from last week - I'm sure the same happens with people WFH in the private sector - but they are not being paid by taxpayers and are not my concern.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Let the line managers deal with the individuals but don't insinuate that all Civil Servants are skivers. Job done.
Da Man Clay
T'Blades
- Dec 16, 2004
- 16,279
All insisting on M-F work from the office will do will ensure that people will not want to work for the civil service. Wages are already poor in comparison and taking away another reasonable flexibility element is just going to drive people away. There really is no need for a permanent work from office requirement for the vast majority of civil servants.
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
And it was the manager who wanted to take their dog (bought at the beginning of lockdown) for a walk.
Are the bottom two examples really any worse than "just popping out for a cigarette" or "just popping to the loo/to get a coffee" (almost invariably leading to running into someone and having a catch up chat)?
That first is obviously bad planning, but even the idea of popping out for a short walk isn't unusual - equivalent to lunch breaks. There are people in our office who, long before covid, regularly popped out for a walk - Occ Health recommend regular breaks from your desk.
Speaking as someone whose (now ex) partner is a Civil Servant, I can confirm the above. My ex’s department grew, but there was no budget for additional real estate, so around 2018 hot-desking was introduced, at great expense and with great unpopularity, as even if the rest of your team were in, they could be scattered among multiple floors and meeting face to face as a team inevitably resulted in annoying someone else who wanted quiet to concentrate. (Never enough meeting rooms)
Then, as numbers grew, staff were directed to only come into the office 4 days a week, then 3 days a week. Then Covid hit. Post-Covid, staff have been given the option of how frequently they’d like to attend, with responses ranging from always to never and largely accommodated.
My ex is fairly senior, and is clear that while a handful of staff members absolutely took the piss when home-working was introduced, their performance was raised in their one to one meetings, and where issues persisted they were put on performance management plans, with active monitoring.
Productivity has increased or remained stable for the majority of her employees.
The benefits of office working are largely lost in a hot-desking environment, as you’re still largely reliant on Teams (or equivalent) for communicating with the colleagues you’re actually working with. There’s no camaraderie, just set up the laptop, plug in the headset, and head down until it’s time to leave. It’s the very definition of battery human.
The facts don’t bear JRM out, and the private sector have already moved on, aware that dragging people across town in dreadful traffic does nothing for them.
90% of my friends in the private sector tech industry work from home permanently, and I certainly wouldn’t move to the Civil Service with the attitude displayed by JRM and his ilk.
Not to mention the fact that I don’t want more of my tax money spent on office space for Civil Servants, if they can work from home, they should.
To redress the balance, Mrs Zef WFH . . . . whilst there is an element of multi tasking, shall we say . . . she works much longer hours.
Having done the same for 12 years it swings both ways, a local office job is a doddle by comparison. IMO
But the private sector generates tax....it should be an equal concern?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The insinuation came from JRM not you, so I apologise for my bad wording.
Dogs can be unpredicatable.
The attitude to civil servants displayed by Rees-Smugg (and the Daily Mail - the Tories' Pravda) is yet more Tory hypocrisy - for the last 30 years or more, they've preached 'labour market flexibility', yet when a group of workers want some flexibility, the Tories order them back to the office Monday-Friday 9-5. So it's the Tories who are insisting on outdated and rigid working practices - precisely what they always accuse the trade unions of.
I guess Tories only favour 'labour market flexibility' when it suits employers or bosses, not when it might benefit workers. Quelle surprise.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,346
When I employed staff and they worked from home, all of those may have been acceptable to me or not depending on the person, what they had planned to do, what they had been doing lately and what was needed. We had a technical term for it 'give and take'
If considering those things, it was unacceptable, their boss should have told them no, and I certainly would have.
Can't see what relevance Public/Private sector is to the quality of your wife's managers
- Apr 19, 2018
- 2,037
There is actual research evidence into working from home that provides a bit of balance. Rees-Mogg's tone is entirely lack of trust and wanting control, but for what it's worth research has shown work from home tends to increase productivity because many people work longer hours (this is true for me - my commuting time is often spent working now instead), fewer distractions at home can also help (i.e. less small talk and casual conversation), and work can be more inclusive around carers' needs, inability to travel etc...but...knowledge sharing in teams and between teams suffers, innovation can suffer, some people struggle with the social isolation, work-life balance can go wrong (true for me again) and careers can suffer because sometimes, wrongly, being seen in the office is seen as preferential.
As with all things there are proven positives and negatives...personally I work somewhere that hasn't yet mandated any office time, but I go in a couple of times a month anyway, and I'd happily go in a couple of times a week just for the social aspect of being with colleagues if we were all there the same time. There's no negative difference in my productivity sitting at a desk at home compared to sitting at a desk in London though.
As with all things there are proven positives and negatives...personally I work somewhere that hasn't yet mandated any office time, but I go in a couple of times a month anyway, and I'd happily go in a couple of times a week just for the social aspect of being with colleagues if we were all there the same time. There's no negative difference in my productivity sitting at a desk at home compared to sitting at a desk in London though.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,822
this makes me wonder now... it is against the instinct of Tories. what has Rees-Mogg actually said, anything about wfh being skivers? or the cost of offices and cost of London weighting are unnecessary for those wfh? seem once everyone has cried outrage at being asked to go into office, decisions become easier to cut offices and London weighting. as you say, more flexible labour doesnt need those things. cut back on public transport too next. is Rees-Mogg going thinking a step ahead here?
When I WFH I often fit in a walk with the dog in the day, around the meetings I already had planned. Others in my team do morning or afternoon school runs. The same people are also normally logged on at 7am or still working in the evening instead of being stuck on a train.