Top up fees, your serious pros and cons?

[berkshire seagull]

Bloody students

 

[bhaexpress]

I am slightly concerned that employers will look at degree classification, and not subject studied and university studied at when interviewing prospective employees.

Doesn't that happen a lot though ? For example, the IT indistry aren't really too impressed with IT graduates as the technology they are taught on more often than not is out of date. It's nobody's fault it just because the industry changes so rapidly.

I mean, in theory, how much use is a degree in Geography, History, English Lit, Art socialism ?

Having a degree indicates to an employer that the holder of same has some sort of intelligence and the ability to learn, two very inportant qualities to an employer.

I have to admit that I don't know much about top up fees but in the main I'm not against them. It's unfair though that different Universities can charge pretty much what they like. Fees should be unilateral, simple as that.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

It will open up access for poor students to attend top universities because they will get all their fees paid for, in essence those students dont lose out, its the LEA that foot the bill.

 

[bhaexpress]

I agree Richie - the whole problem is this idea that 50% of school leavers should go to uni. The rhetoric is that it widens access - it doesn't, it only deepens access, i.e. the thick middle classes get in. Stop this happening and this will improve.

Yes and the government likes people to be in higher education as they won't show up on the unemployment figures.

I went on a one year's ful time course for an HNC in IT (after 20 years in the industry) primarily to gain experience of PCs as I was a mainframe (and obsolete mainframes at that) engineer. It was at a small tech college, certainly not one of the higher seats of learning. It was a total shambles, it left me with nothing of any real use execpt to say that the majority of the lecturers didn't have a clue. However, as it was 'Job Training' it didn't cost me any teaching fees.

I wonder how many students at Unis are being short changed by incompetent teaching.

 

[fatbadger]

I mean, in theory, how much use is a degree in Geography, History, English Lit, Art socialism ?

History is the most looked-for degree by employers in the UK; EngLit, if I remember rightly, is 3rd or 4th.

History teaches important research skills, the ability to synthesise ideas and arguments, and the skills of presenting complex phenomena in easy-to-understand form. That is why employers want it.

Remember, a good degree is not about the accretion of knowledge, but the accretion of intellectual tools for the appreciation and use of knowledge.

 

[fatbadger]

It will open up access for poor students to attend top universities because they will get all their fees paid for, in essence those students dont lose out, its the LEA that foot the bill.

The top universities will be as open to poor students as before

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I wonder how many students at Unis are being short changed by incompetent teaching.

I have to agree with this. Most of our lecturers are more interested in their own private research which is funded in the main by the books they publish and them pressure us to buy over over publications. Lecturers at my uni are generally not interested in students problems and regularly just dont turn up for lectures because they have other engagements.
This is why I for one am in favour of restructuring their pay. Some do a brillaint job, but they are slowly becoming the minority.

 

[berkshire seagull]

TAX DODGERS

 

[bhaexpress]

Fatbadger, I agree with what you say pretty much too. I didn't go to Uni as I was too thick. Part of the reason was that I left school in 1972 and all you had to do to get a job was to be prepared to turn up on time.

I wonder how many lecturers are in touch with the real world and realise their responisbilites. Frankly the muppets in the place I was at virtually none of them had a clue. It was, like I said, not much of a college but following on from what you say it seems it's across the board.

 

[DTES]

It will open up access for poor students to attend top universities because they will get all their fees paid for, in essence those students dont lose out, its the LEA that foot the bill.

That is so unbelievably not true. It is no more true now than it was under the old regulations, and the variability (allowing lower universities to charge less) will encourage poorer students to go there. Regardless of support available, they will still feel encouraged to go to a lesser university even more so than they were.

 

[El Presidente]

I have to agree with this. Most of our lecturers are more interested in their own private research which is funded in the main by the books they publish and them pressure us to buy over over publications. Lecturers at my uni are generally not interested in students problems and regularly just dont turn up for lectures because they have other engagements.
This is why I for one am in favour of restructuring their pay. Some do a brillaint job, but they are slowly becoming the minority.

Bit harsh Richie, I have been teaching for over 15 years and have never missed a class, have often crawled in feeling like shit, and have slept with many female undergraduates out of sympathy rather than as a means of them improving their marks

 

[fatboy]

Doesn't that happen a lot though ? For example, the IT indistry aren't really too impressed with IT graduates as the technology they are taught on more often than not is out of date. It's nobody's fault it just because the industry changes so rapidly.

I mean, in theory, how much use is a degree in Geography, History, English Lit, Art socialism ?

Having a degree indicates to an employer that the holder of same has some sort of intelligence and the ability to learn, two very inportant qualities to an employer.

I have to admit that I don't know much about top up fees but in the main I'm not against them. It's unfair though that different Universities can charge pretty much what they like. Fees should be unilateral, simple as that.

A 2:2 in Maths from Bristol or a 2:1 in Media Studies from Hull? Hmm.

Some of those subjects you mentioned are good. History, for example, as somebody mentioned. Apart from the job specific subjects, I rate traditional subjects: Maths, Physics, English, History, Chemistry, Biology, Economics, Geography a lot higher than the modern crap that they teach: Sociology, Media Studies, and pretty much any other "ology".


In my opinion certain subjects show a higher "intelligence" and a higher "ability to learn".

This is why I don't agree with all the crap Universitys.

 

[CAFC Matt]

English you're studying is it Matt

Geography actually and to answer BHA express point on studying Geography. It teaches you all round skills that a employer looks for and is career specific. There is a point to it.

 

[fatboy]

I have to agree with this. Most of our lecturers are more interested in their own private research which is funded in the main by the books they publish and them pressure us to buy over over publications. Lecturers at my uni are generally not interested in students problems and regularly just dont turn up for lectures because they have other engagements.
This is why I for one am in favour of restructuring their pay. Some do a brillaint job, but they are slowly becoming the minority.

Congratulations Richie. That is the best post you have ever made.

I don't agree with it entirely, but I agree with certain points about being pressured into buying your lecturers text book (at £50 a go).

In my experience my lecturers are very helpful, and always have time to answer an email or whatever. On the other hand many of them are crap. They are often cancelling lectures for other engagements and this time does not always get made up.

What really me off are the foreign PHD students who take our seminars. I am sure they may know every economic concept under the sun. But if they canot communicate with me in English then they really are about as much help as a hairdryer to Crabtree.

 

[CAFC Matt]

Congratulations Richie. That is the best post you have ever made.

I don't agree with it entirely, but I agree with certain points about being pressured into buying your lecturers text book (at £50 a go).

In my experience my lecturers are very helpful, and always have time to answer an email or whatever. On the other hand many of them are crap. They are often cancelling lectures for other engagements and this time does not always get made up.

My lecturers are quite good. Hardly any are cancelled. They answer e-mails and are very good in helping with assignments. have no complaints

 

[El Presidente]

My lecturers are quite good. Hardly any are cancelled. They answer e-mails and are very good in helping with assignments. have no complaints

We are just like any other cross section of society, some are good, some are average, some are taking the piss. Being serious for once it is quite intimidating for many in the profession to stand in front of a bunch of young people ( my maximum class size is 200 for example) and spout on for two hours on material that can be quite challenging, both to the student (who has never heard any of it before and is often in the middle of an important text to their bookie/drug supplier/ pimp etc.) and the lecturer ( who is shitting him/herself that they cannot make it easy to understand).

I am lucky in that I love 99.9% of my job, and so tend to have a good rapport with my class (even to the extent of wearing the stripes on a Tuesday if we have a midweek fixture that I am going to that evening). I dont write any textbooks, so try to recommend to students cheap books rather than ones that will provide me with royalties

 

[US Seagull]

What really me off are the foreign PHD students who take our seminars. I am sure they may know every economic concept under the sun. But if they canot communicate with me in English then they really are about as much help as a hairdryer to Crabtree.

If the situation there is anything like the situation here, the problem is with finding enough people to teach all the classes. Hence people with limited grasp of English often get pushed into the classroom because there is nobody else to do it.
Now if the government is serious about expanding higher education, they might want to start by looking at hiring and retaining people who can teach first.