Toads Hole Valley - Argus Letters Page

[Curious Orange]

Well, I've written to the Argus.

Pointing out that "free" equals a business park and £24 million of infrastructure costs to the Albion.

Have you lot written?

 

[CHAPPERS]

On the case.....

 

[perseus]

Neutrals and opponents might not "care" how much it costs, but it IS relevent for the Inquiry, as those singing the praises of THV have to demonstrate that its financially viable...which it ain't.

Do not be under any illusions that the result of the Planning Inquiry and associated matters is entirely to do with the planning criteria, because there is a huge political component.

The Albion and all their highly paid experts, should have anticipated this move and have their own press statement already written out and primed !

The policing costs is a good one, because even the stingiest Hove resident does not like to pay out their pension money. Also, it is common sense that any planning application should not be a nuisance to neighbours by putting it in the wrong place as far as transport to and from the deestination is concerned.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Dear Editor,

I am writing in response to a letter from 'D Higgins' of Hove who states, ''The best site for Albion in Brighton may be Falmer but the best site of all is at Toad's Hole and the last obstacle has now been overcome with a free offer of the land.''

He says that the land is free. Was Mr Higgins present at the public inquiry recently when a Mr Norman Stiles, a surveyor working on behalf of the group trying to sell the land, stated that the land would cost half a million pounds per hectare up front as well as the Albion having to take on all costs of development including access and all the infrastructure on top of the supposed 'peppercorn rent' that the club would pay? Hardly free is it Mr Higgins?

The group who own Toads Hole alley are trying to con the Albion and the Inspector into thinking that the site is more suitable for a football stadium than the site at Falmer. Thankfully, for the club and the whole town, they appear to be failing.

Regards,

 

[Easy 10]

Do not be under any illusions that the result of the Planning Inquiry and associated matters is entirely to do with the planning criteria, because there is a huge political component.

We've had this SO MANY TIMES now.
Labour are NOT running scared on the Falmer decision - it might be important to Albion fans, but we are a blip on the radar in the great scheme of things. This is a planning application, and it will be a planning decision. There is NOT a "huge political component" in all this at all.

The Albion and all their highly paid experts, should have anticipated this move and have their own press statement already written out and primed !

Anticipated what ? A poorly prepared and misleading "offer" of land, with no costing or consideration of infrastructure costs ? I think Clay and Perry have already shot the owners "move" down in flames quite comprehensively at the Inquiry.

The policing costs is a good one, because even the stingiest Hove resident does not like to pay out their pension money. Also, it is common sense that any planning application should not be a nuisance to neighbours by putting it in the wrong place as far as transport to and from the deestination is concerned.

Not sure what you are driving at here. Policing costs ? How does that have any effect on the Inquiry ? We'll have costs at Falmer as we would at any other site, its a complete irrelevence as far as the planning application goes. Even if it WAS a factor, I can't see that the policing costs would be any different for 22,000 people at Falmer as they would 22,000 people at THV.

An odd statement.

 

[Titanic]

An odd statement. [/B]

About par for the course!

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Do not be under any illusions that the result of the Planning Inquiry and associated matters is entirely to do with the planning criteria, because there is a huge political component.

The Albion and all their highly paid experts, should have anticipated this move and have their own press statement already written out and primed !

The policing costs is a good one, because even the stingiest Hove resident does not like to pay out their pension money. Also, it is common sense that any planning application should not be a nuisance to neighbours by putting it in the wrong place as far as transport to and from the deestination is concerned.

What?

 

[perseus]

Believe what you want. I have seen it happen before (with a supermarket plan).

Briefly, the public and the bankers have to be convinced about the merits of Falmer as well.

One of the strong merits of Falmer is the proximity of the railway station and the controlled car parking. This means the influx of large numbers of people can be monitored by the Police using less numbers of officers than would be possible by the chaotic arrangements suggested at Sheepcote and Toad's Hole.

This was how the supermarket plan at Ropetackle in Shoreham was baulked. The plan was passed at the Public Inquiry but it still did not go ahead. The transport arrangements were naff, there was an alternative (more expensive) at Holmbush and the bankers thought it was a better bet. When it came down to it, common sense prevailed. It was all about the transport to and from the destination.

This is what planning is all about.

 

[The Large One]

Briefly, the public and the bankers have to be convinced about the merits of Falmer as well.

I was having a largely mellow day at work until I read your posts, Judas.

Now that the Inquiry is not the main news item, you have reverted to type and have become a shining beacon of treachery and stupidity. You cannot wait to snipe at the club about something it has no control over.

The club, since it found out about the THV owners wanting to piss about, has tried to talk to them, and they have been stonewalled. They only submitted their evidence after the Inquiry had started and the Inspector is extremely pissed off with them. In what way could the club have 'anticipated this'? And even if they had, what more could have been done about it?

The public does NOT have to be convinced about the planning process - the planning authority does. In this instance, it is now the Planning Inspectorate and ultimately the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. Have you not been payng attention to the fact we are still in a ludicrously long-running public inquiry?

The source of money has been identified and a business plan put in place. The intimate details have just not been made public yet, although Martin Perry has stated £29m would have to be borrowed. Do you think he has been sitting around for the past six years without having instigated a sound financial plan?

This is a PLANNING process, not a POLITICAL process. Your stunning lack of understanding for something Lord Bracknell explained time and time again in well-simplified bit-sized prose, combined with your mind-boggling shit-stirring whimsies make me wonder how you actually have the wit and intelligence to turn on your computer each day.

















It's OK - I'm mellow again now.

 

[sully]

Was Mr Higgins present at the public inquiry recently when a Mr Norman Stiles, a surveyor working on behalf of the group trying to sell the land, stated that the land would cost half a million pounds per hectare up front as well as the Albion having to take on all costs of development including access and all the infrastructure on top of the supposed 'peppercorn rent' that the club would pay? Hardly free is it Mr Higgins?

Have you sent this yet?

I believe his name is ROBERT Stiles, not Norman.

 

[CHAPPERS]

No and you're right.

And the grammer is shit.

And I've rewritten it.

 

[Titanic]

And the grammer is shit.

and the spelling ??

 

[perseus]

Mellow stuff.

I know that the landowners of Toad's Hole valley are a greedy lot of shits that want to circumvent the local planning democracy to cash in on a land speculation, I know that single land carriageways cost £2 million a kilometre and road junctions cost a fortune etc. etc. ....


but do the Argus readers know ??

Goodwill is always a financial component of any business transaction, so it would be a good job to let the public know as well.

But what do the neutral public really care about? They don't like their parking spaces occupied and the roads clogged up with cars.

So what is harm in reminding the public that both Sheepcote and Toad's Hole Valley will result in traffic chaos and that the Falmer application goes a long way in solving this problem, if not exactly pleasing all the car travelling Albion supporters.

If the hack runs off with inadequate information, the Albion could have pressed an easily understood press statement in his hands. There is no guarantee he would have read it, and the Albion may have already done this for all I know.

 

[Easy 10]

Sorry...you've lost me completely now.

 

[Titanic]

<forget it>

 

[perseus]

At the risk of completing losing you, some people may see a Public Inquiry like a Court of Law with winners and losers determined by the outcome.

Other people may see it as a Public debating forum with the players using the public media to influence the political process as well.

There is no correct answer.

What we need is an overwhelming public endorsement of Falmer as the best site (if you see it that way).

This could come at the summing up stage, so it could be premature at this moment.

We all want to see the best stadium in the best possible location at an affordable cost in a reasonable amount of time. Toad's Hole Valley can never fulfill these criteria because the transport arrangements are naff and it would involve another Public Inquiry.

 

[Curious Orange]

I can see what Perseus is driving at, however he is wrong to think that the Public Inquiry is a political thing; it is not, it is all about planning laws..., and the interpretation of those.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Anybody care to write to the Argus putting this chap straight about how "free" the site is.

From the Argus:

"Letter: A new park?

The best site for Albion in Brighton may be Falmer but the best site of all is at Toad's Hole and the last obstacle has now been overcome with a free offer of the land.

Access is easy via the bypass from a new slip road, Hove Station is not much further than it was from the Goldstone and for thousands of locals, as before, it's not far to walk. Who would walk to Falmer?

With careful landscaping and planting, this could be a new park for the people of Hove.

-D Higgins, Hove"

Gonna get slaugtered for this Curious but how would you know about the suitability regarding TVH as a recreational area for Hove residents.............do tell

 

[Easy 10]

At the risk of completing losing you, some people may see a Public Inquiry like a Court of Law with winners and losers determined by the outcome.

Other people may see it as a Public debating forum with the players using the public media to influence the political process as well.

But. Its. Not. A. Political. Process. Its a PLANNING APPLICATION. Politicians and local MP's are NOT going to stand or fall based on this one issue - its simply not high enough on the agenda for the vast majority of people. It might SEEM like the be-all and end-all to Albion fans (and to us, it is), but it barely registers on a political front.

What we need is an overwhelming public endorsement of Falmer as the best site This could come at the summing up stage, so it could be premature at this moment.

No. You don't. This inquiry is NEVER going to establish an "overwhelming public endorsement of Falmer as the best site". How is that even possible ? Thats not what this is all about at all. We've HAD the referendum already (which found in favour of a stadium by a 66% majority). A public inquiry isn't something that enables the public to cast votes for or against - its a platform for the planning experts and relevent witnesses to debate the suitability of the sites and present the evidence to the ODPM via the inspector for a decision. You could have half a million Sussex residents turn up outside Brighton Town Hall at the Inquiry and chant "We Want Falmer" all day, but it wouldn't make a JOT of difference to the Inquiry process.

We all want to see the best stadium in the best possible location at an affordable cost in a reasonable amount of time. Toad's Hole Valley can never fulfill these criteria because the transport arrangements are naff and it would involve another Public Inquiry.

And financially its a non-starter. Can at least pretty much agree on this, at least.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Toad's Hole is inferior to Falmer because of the lack of transport provisions, cost of policing, rather than the costs as neutrals and opponents will not care how much it costs.

Can someone please explain just what exacly this means. This is complete gobbledygook.

Policing costs WTF are you on about?