Time of fear?

[Kinky Gerbil]

The group/phrase “shielding” ceased to exist on August 1st. They did their bit for 15 weeks, then were, as you put it “thrown under the bus”.

Which again no one agrees with.

If everyone not at risk was out working and going about the normal business from day one with tweaks there would be money left to shield for longer.

The monies gone, wasted on having people that didn’t need to be sitting at home.

 

[BeHereNow]

So you are saying we should have locked everyone up when 28,000 people died but not when 40,000 people died WITH restrictions in place? Nice logic you have there.

Someone told you that you can’t do something and you lack the emotional maturity to deal with it. Grow up and leave the important decisions to the adults.

I’m saying we shouldn’t have had a lockdown either way. I’m asking you why you didn’t think one was necessary for a flu that killed more people worldwide than Covid has.

Maybe it was because the media and government didn’t tell you to.

Someone said I can’t do something? I’m more concerned about the future of the country, not my own well-being. In my opinion, the lockdown has and will cause more damage than Covid has and will. Get that through your head.

 

[BeHereNow]

FALSE - The WHO does not say 'masks don't work - their advice on the wearing of masks is outlined here -

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/who-updates-guidance-on-masks-heres-what-to-know-now/

The WHO changed their stance after political lobbying.

The corruption runs deep. If you don’t believe that then you are living in a fantasy land.

 

[e77]

I’m saying we shouldn’t have had a lockdown either way. I’m asking you why you didn’t think one was necessary for a flu that killed more people worldwide than Covid has.

Maybe it was because the media and government didn’t tell you to.

Someone said I can’t do something? I’m more concerned about the future of the country, not my own well-being. In my opinion, the lockdown has and will cause more damage than Covid has and will. Get that through your head.

Thankfully for all of us the protest in London yesterday was headlined by such titans of public health as the less talented Corbyn brother, David 'the Royals are lizards' Icke and Chico, a man more known as a entertainer than public health exponent and to be frank he wasn't much of an entertainer. who combined in a one off performance for the ages to set the record straight and show the likes of me with our interest in 'science', 'facts', 'reason' and so called 'logic'.

Do you know why it is called the MSM? Because it represents the mainstream, as in the ideas shared by most people. That is most people as opposed to the lunatic fringe you are happy to strip off and frolic around. Now that said some of it has argued we should all be returning to normal and some hasn't, so in other words while Big Brother might be watching you he hasn't done a very good job of censoring the press.

On your final point do what you say or want within the law but if you spout your dangerous paranoid delusional nonsense around me I will argue against it in the strongest terms. There is a debate to be had around the details but if there hadn't been a lockdown there would be tens of thousands of people alive now who wouldn't have been. Absolutely no one is in any doubt this has come at a cost to mental health and other areas of health care and we are heading for a huge recession but we couldn't just throw the elderly and people with health concerns under the bus.

Besides which, where were the protests in March?

 

[Albion Dan]

Again - FALSE - Fauci to David Muir: ‘Universal wearing of masks’ essential to combat COVID-19 spread

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fauci-david-muir-universal-wearing-masks-essential-combat/story?id=72294374

Yes because the idiot changed his mind. Can you actually not see and hear what he says on film? The guys a massive fraud. You’re all being conned.

I went for a meal last night. Two tables of 8 young people obviously all from different households no masks no distancing all hugging and getting drunk, Ive seen similar in many other establishments for several weeks But you have to wear a mask to go to the newsagent or supermarket? Wake up we are getting totally played.

Barely anyone is ill and the death rate of those who are has reduced to minuscule numbers.

 

[Klaas]

You've got a picture of Farage as your avatar you f**kwit.

That joker scoffed at the term Far Right after posting a video from a white supremacist who hangs out with proper neo-nazis. He used to have a signature that mentioned the 'Great Replacement'. His good pal Rossy also likes to post about 'conservative' 'journalists' who lie, spout anti-semitic shit, and don't report plans to commit violence, claiming victimhood.

But don't mention the Far Right! Laughable.

About that protest, I'm sure there were more than the far right in attendance, all sorts of misguided people, but to pretend the right isn't behind a lot of it is naive.

[tweet]1299729107962540035[/tweet]

[tweet]1299819391828320258[/tweet]

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes because the idiot changed his mind. Can you actually not see and hear what he says on film? The guys a massive fraud. You’re all being conned.

"The idiot changed his mind".

That's what scientists do. They test theories and hypothoses and adapt them to the results of the tests, empirically. Science adapts as it needs. It's a shame that [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] hasn't commented as he'd put it far more eruditely than me but he's probably taken one look at the thread title and identity of the OP and started weeping into his Barnsley Chop.

You, meanwhile, have been just as paranoid and unswerving since day one. It now seems you've been joined by Piers Corbyn, Icke Lizards and the fascists. Lovely company you keep.

I went for a meal last night. Two tables of 8 young people obviously all from different households no masks no distancing all hugging and getting drunk, Ive seen similar in many other establishments for several weeks But you have to wear a mask to go to the newsagent or supermarket? Wake up we are getting totally played.

Barely anyone is ill and the death rate of those who are has reduced to minuscule numbers.

The "R" rate is being kept just between 0.9 and 1.1 by the majority of people observing social distancing and wearing masks in shops (not exactly hard that is it). However, if businesses are operating more or less as normal as you claim then what are you protesting about?

The irony is that the sort of people worried about mask wearing would, in a non covid world, be outraged if face coverings were banned from shops because of a series of robberies and would organise a protest at their local Tesco in balaclavas, claiming that the freedom to wear a mask was being obstructed by a joint Zionist / lizard plot.

 

[Klaas]

Sorry if this is straying off topic but in relation to Covid disinformation, this tweet really beats all comers.

[tweet]1300211456126803968[/tweet]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"The idiot changed his mind".

That's what scientists do. They test theories and hypothoses and adapt them to the results of the tests, empirically. Science adapts as it needs. It's a shame that [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] hasn't commented as he'd put it far more eruditely than me but he's probably taken one look at the thread title and identity of the OP and started weeping into his Barnsley Chop.

You, meanwhile, have been just as paranoid and unswerving since day one. It now seems you've been joined by Piers Corbyn, Icke Lizards and the fascists. Lovely company you keep.



The "R" rate is being kept just between 0.9 and 1.1 by the majority of people observing social distancing and wearing masks in shops (not exactly hard that is it). However, if businesses are operating more or less as normal as you claim then what are you protesting about?

The irony is that the sort of people worried about mask wearing would, in a non covid world, be outraged if face coverings were banned from shops because of a series of robberies and would organise a protest at their local Tesco in balaclavas, claiming that the freedom to wear a mask was being obstructed by a joint Zionist / lizard plot.

I took a quick look at the thread after your 'mention' came up in my alerts.

There is absolutely nothing here that warrants my engagement. I was disappointed that some people who I don't have on ignore are posting on the side of devilry, however. One of them is a self-confessed Christian, too. Disappointed, but not really suprised .

 

[Swansman]

David Icke says: "Ice cream is good"

Mainstream reaction: stops eating ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: only eats ice cream

Mainstream media says: ice cream is good

Mainstream reaction: only eats ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: stops eating ice cream

Its pretty easy.

Own both and you control 90% of the people.

 

[Guinness Boy]

David Icke says: "Ice cream is good"

Mainstream reaction: stops eating ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: only eats ice cream

Mainstream media says: ice cream is good

Mainstream reaction: only eats ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: stops eating ice cream

Its pretty easy.

Own both and you control 90% of the people.

A massive over simplification. Life, and its media, are far more nuanced and all tend to come with an agenda. It's exactly why conspiracies are nonsense.

Many on NSC can't even agree if Solly March played well on Saturday, even though he played right in front of the used stand for 45 minutes. The idea that people could then maintain a binary, secret conspiracy is, well, not very plausible.

Or, to continue the analogy you've started:

BBC Website

Solly March played for 66 minutes in the friendly against Chelsea

Conspiracy Sites

Solly March didn't play for 24 minutes. Something must be up. Let's do a video!

NSC

Ten page binfest on Solly March's performance.

 

[beorhthelm]

David Icke says: "Ice cream is good"

Mainstream reaction: stops eating ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: only eats ice cream

Mainstream media says: ice cream is good

Mainstream reaction: only eats ice cream

Icke-believers reaction: stops eating ice cream

Its pretty easy.

Own both and you control 90% of the people.

fun, except Icke doesnt say anything as simple as "ice cream is good", he says all world leaders are lizards and the moon is a giant space station.

also, mainstream media says ice cream is bad, we ignore them because it tastes too good.

 

[Swansman]

A massive over simplification. Life, and its media, are far more nuanced and all tend to come with an agenda. It's exactly why conspiracies are nonsense.

Many on NSC can't even agree if Solly March played well on Saturday, even though he played right in front of the used stand for 45 minutes. The idea that people could then maintain a binary, secret conspiracy is, well, not very plausible.

Or, to continue the analogy you've started:

BBC Website

Solly March played for 66 minutes in the friendly against Chelsea

Conspiracy Sites

Solly March didn't play for 24 minutes. Something must be up. Let's do a video!

NSC

Ten page binfest on Solly March's performance.

Of course its more complicated, but what I wrote are the basics of it. Crowd psychology. Difference between mainstreamers and conspiracy theorists is that we (the conspiracy theorists) believe that there is non-elected people with power, who carry out this crowd psychology. For - interestingly enough - psychological reasons, the mainstream can not believe this.

The idea that keeping a large conspiracy secret would be impossible is flawed in two ways: first of all, its not very hard - as proven by military locations and secret services operations only revealed plenty of decades later.

However, as you would assume, something is bound to leak out - and throughout history there's been millions of conspiracy theorists and thousands of authors describing these conspiries/this conspiracy.

The thing is however that mainstreamers either wont find or wont believe in these authours - because they are not mainstream, for reasons of crowd psychology, and in the few cases they've receieved attention, the mainstream media and the agents of the conspiricies have been quick to label these cases as "fiction" or "dystopias" rather than descriptions of development or roman a clefs.

That said, I envy mainstreamers. Its too bad I will never be able to share their world view.

 

[Albion Dan]

Anyone else looking forward to taking their medicine like good boys and girls?

 

[BeHereNow]

Thankfully for all of us the protest in London yesterday was headlined by such titans of public health as the less talented Corbyn brother, David 'the Royals are lizards' Icke and Chico, a man more known as a entertainer than public health exponent and to be frank he wasn't much of an entertainer. who combined in a one off performance for the ages to set the record straight and show the likes of me with our interest in 'science', 'facts', 'reason' and so called 'logic'.

Do you know why it is called the MSM? Because it represents the mainstream, as in the ideas shared by most people. That is most people as opposed to the lunatic fringe you are happy to strip off and frolic around. Now that said some of it has argued we should all be returning to normal and some hasn't, so in other words while Big Brother might be watching you he hasn't done a very good job of censoring the press.

On your final point do what you say or want within the law but if you spout your dangerous paranoid delusional nonsense around me I will argue against it in the strongest terms. There is a debate to be had around the details but if there hadn't been a lockdown there would be tens of thousands of people alive now who wouldn't have been. Absolutely no one is in any doubt this has come at a cost to mental health and other areas of health care and we are heading for a huge recession but we couldn't just throw the elderly and people with health concerns under the bus.

Besides which, where were the protests in March?

I don’t give a shit about Icke and Chico. Have you not been reading this thread? You make assumptions up your head every single time.

MSM doesn’t represent the mainstream, this is where you are found out as a dinosaur. You believe it’s mainstream because they tell you it is.

Again, you have made assumptions regarding ‘throwing people under the bus’. I didn’t want that, I believe in shielding vulnerable people, just like every flu season, although it appears you don’t, because you seem to think the flu isn’t as bad, but the evidence doesn’t back that up.

You saw the graph about Sweden, yes? No lockdown, yet have the same death rate as us, this suggests (probably proves really) that a certain amount of people were always going to die with the lockdown or not, unfortunately. This happens every year, some years are worse than others, maybe this is hard for you to take?

The deaths seem to correlate to how many old people a country has and if they, stupidly, put them all in care homes where viruses can run rife.

Sweden had 6 times the amount of deaths that Ireland had (they have 6 times the amount of old people)
UK had 20 times the amount of deaths that Ireland had (we have 20 times the amount of old people)

It has become very obvious that Covid was used as a blanket term for death. That’s why cold, flu and pneumonia deaths have been recorded as less than average. So, when they say 40,000 it actually isn’t.

When flu killed 28,000 in one month a few years ago, did you want a lockdown then? I’m pretty sure you didn’t because the MSM didn’t tell you too.

There were no protests in March because, like myself, we believed it was going to be extremely bad. After a month or so of ‘flattening the curve’ it became pretty obvious that it wasn’t needed.

You have to remember that the lockdown was based on a faulty model by someone who has a track record of getting things wrong. This has previously been mentioned on here. Maybe, like the other facts, you wilfully ignored it.

You seem to think you have a monopoly on ‘the science’. I have seen scientists, doctors and nurses who don’t agree with your science. I can sit here and send you different videos of different scientists and doctors, but you, or someone else, will come out with the ‘well, that doctor doesn’t count’ rubbish.

So, I’ll go back to my original point that I think the lockdown is doing more harm than good. It’s a totally legitimate stance to take. I want what’s best for the country, as I’m sure you do too. I also happen to think that the MSM really don’t give a **** about us and their market is fear porn.

I saw a study about a month ago, can’t remember where it is now, but it said that for every 1% of GDP lost, tens of thousands would die as a result. We’ve lost more than 20%. I want as less deaths as possible. You don’t seem to see that, you’ve made a bogeyman in your head. I’m not the bad guy, I’m not saying you are either.

I understand your position, you think more people would’ve died without a lockdown. I don’t agree, pretty simple really, it’s nothing to do with ‘throwing people under the bus’.

People like you and the mud slingers need to stop being so toxic on here just because someone doesn’t agree with you.

 

[RossyG]

I took a quick look at the thread after your 'mention' came up in my alerts.

There is absolutely nothing here that warrants my engagement. I was disappointed that some people who I don't have on ignore are posting on the side of devilry, however. One of them is a self-confessed Christian, too. Disappointed, but not really suprised .

How am I on the side of devilry?

 

[BeHereNow]

How am I on the side of devilry?

Wonder if he would have said he was ‘disappointed’ if you said you were a Muslim.

 

[beorhthelm]

Anyone else looking forward to taking their medicine like good boys and girls?

i am, to join the vaccines for flu, meningitis, TB, measles, polio, HPV, and othrs that keep us free of so many nasty illnesses.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How am I on the side of devilry?

For example:

"My point is that viruses in the coronavirus family have a season and kill thousands every year. I don't think there'll be a second wave this year. January to April will be flu season and so people will die by the thousands again. For those, the focus should be building immunity and getting HCQ + zinc.

But cancelling social gatherings, telling people to stay indoors or mask up outdoors is ridiculous. In fact, it's tyrannical."

The gun totin' conspiracy theorists we see in America, and those kindred sprits who are becoming more empowered here, would read something like that and say 'exactly'.

Your position is a classic example of deciding what you want (back to normal) and then fitting the 'facts' to your narrative.

Like you, I also have suggested we should go back to normal - but I said the vulnerable should be protected. You can't just throw people under a bus to die, and people will die, the old and compromised, if they are exposed again. Not putting the vulnerable at the forefront of any discussion is devilry in my view.

Meanwhile, notions like "I don't think there'll be a second wave this year" are uninformed wishful thinking. You may be right. I don't know. Neither do you.

Your second message, that doing anything about Covid-19 now (I don't see anything from you about protecting the vulnerable) is 'tyrannical' just feeds the dick heads, some of whom are still claiming Covid is a hoax. We may not be doing the right thing or the targeted thing but chucking it all away with no contingency for the vulnerable is what would be tyrannical. You are sounding like 1970s the anti seat belt and anti breathylser brigade with such talk.

The reseason this thread is shit is because it is full of utter bollox from people who have started out with a wish (which is basically to pursue their own interest, sod the rest) then bent the 'facts' to suit their narrative. You may not be doing this yourself but you are playing along with them. I am sure this is not your objective but by your stance you're aligning youself with the 'I'm alright' Jacks.

I will remind you that of the more than 40,000 who have died, half were in residential homes where they might have hoped to live out a sheltered and protected life. Instead they ware locked in and died alone.

If you think that this is just like ordinary flu (the implication of what I quote above) you need to give your head a wobble.

I wouldn't bother replying to the dick heads on this thread and, as I said, this thread stinks to high heaven. But you're a sensible bloke with a good heart so I'm frankly appalled you can't see you're aligning yourself with, yes, devilry.

Any and every stance plan or strategy to get the nation back to normal MUST be prefaced with the clear and effective mechanism to protect the vulnerable. I did a calculation recently and showed the numbers that prove that those age 14-55 have a vanishingly low risk of death from Covid and should be back at work. But half of those over 75 who have died since the outbreak have died of Covid. Half. You can't just throw the old and vulnerable under a bus. There has to be a plan. Without one we are in danger of repeating the care home scandal (and it was a scandal).

I'll not be back on this thread so if you wish to turn this into a discussion (no real need - I meant no offence and should not really have dug you out) it will have to be done elsewhere.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wonder if he would have said he was ‘disappointed’ if you said you were a Muslim.

You are a dick head and you're going on ignore.