[Travel] Thomas Cook

[BensGrandad]

We never book a package and always book flights, accommodation, transfers etc individually ourselves as if 1 goes under you still have the other to fall back on and can cover the one that fails. That is not ignoring the fact that it is cheaper or so we have found.

 

[Balders]

We never book a package and always book flights, accommodation, transfers etc individually ourselves as if 1 goes under you still have the other to fall back on and can cover the one that fails. That is not ignoring the fact that it is cheaper or so we have found.

And all those people that did exactly that buying Cooks flights as one element are in a heap of pain, particularly if the Hotel is non refundable (card won't cover that as they didn't go under) and if travel is in the next couple of months, they are having to pay a shed load more to cover their replacement flights (supply v demand, Cooks had 800,000 forward bookings!)

Save a few quid, if you get away with it fair play, but not utilising a package and it's protection via an Agent or Tour Operator, can be a dangerous game. With a package they have to replace the flights at no cost or give a full refund....

 

[SeagullinExile]

And all those people that did exactly that buying Cooks flights as one element are in a heap of pain, particularly if the Hotel is non refundable (card won't cover that as they didn't go under) and if travel is in the next couple of months, they are having to pay a shed load more to cover their replacement flights (supply v demand, Cooks had 800,000 forward bookings!)

Save a few quid, if you get away with it fair play, but not utilising a package and it's protection via an Agent or Tour Operator, can be a dangerous game. With a package they have to replace the flights at no cost or give a full refund....

The only pre payment I ever have is for flights. My hotel bookings are always pay on arrival or when leaving. If i have to cancel the hotel for any reason, the cancellation is usually free or a small late cancellation fee.

The joys of Sky Scanner & Bookings.Com....

....probably one if the reasons T.C. went out of business if you ask me.

 

[Icy Gull]

The only pre payment I ever have is for flights. My hotel bookings are always pay on arrival or when leaving. If i have to cancel the hotel for any reason, the cancellation is usually free or a small late cancellation fee.

The joys of Sky Scanner & Bookings.Com....

....probably one if the reasons T.C. went out of business if you ask me.

Airbnb is the current travel darling.

Norwegian, the next big failure?

 

[SeagullinExile]

Airbnb is the current travel darling.

Norwegian, the next big failure?

Never really fancied Airbnb for some reason. Dont really know much about Norwegian.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people just don't need travel agents anymore.

 

[Icy Gull]

Never really fancied Airbnb for some reason. Dont really know much about Norwegian.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people just don't need travel agents anymore.

Your average Joe certainly doesn’t but wealthy people doing top end holidays appreciate that knowledge and service is probably more important than saving a few quid. The last BA strike being a case in point. You had no chance of getting BA to answer phones and sort it, without numerous and lengthy phone calls. An IATA agent could sort it in a few minutes of an email or phone call as they have access to the BA systems and have the staff to deal with a crisis, BA with all their cost cutting don’t. Most people are driven by getting “a bargain” and it works most of the time but don’t expect any help when it all goes wrong if you book via the internet.

Niche travel agents definitely still have a future, high street ones probably not so much as they are just brochure collection points and a price comparison start. Most people have no problem with expecting a travel agent to do the work and then go off and try and better the price on line once they have the recommendations.

 

[Beach Hut]

Airbnb is the current travel darling.

Norwegian, the next big failure?

Norwegian is intersting as making a loss but have very sound financial backing.

 

[Icy Gull]

Norwegian is intersting as making a loss but have very sound financial backing.

Until they don’t.......

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Airbnb is the current travel darling.

Norwegian, the next big failure?

Yes Norwegian worry me, they have grown from topsy in a very short period of time, and there have been concerns that they have over reached themselves for a while now.

I have flown on them regularly to Kefalonia, and to the States, and think they are a really good airline, and offer some super competitive fares too, but l guess the latter is the problem.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Your average Joe certainly doesn’t but wealthy people doing top end holidays appreciate that knowledge and service is probably more important than saving a few quid. The last BA strike being a case in point. You had no chance of getting BA to answer phones and sort it, without numerous and lengthy phone calls. An IATA agent could sort it in a few minutes of an email or phone call as they have access to the BA systems and have the staff to deal with a crisis, BA with all their cost cutting don’t. Most people are driven by getting “a bargain” and it works most of the time but don’t expect any help when it all goes wrong if you book via the internet.

Niche travel agents definitely still have a future, high street ones probably not so much as they are just brochure collection points and a price comparison start. Most people have no problem with expecting a travel agent to do the work and then go off and try and better the price on line once they have the recommendations.

Point taken. But it's not always about getting a bargain to be fair. I book some lovely places. It's just that I tend to stay a few days at different locations, so sites like Booking.com etc give me great flexibility to travel at my own pace. Granted it's not for everyone though.

 

[Balders]

Your average Joe certainly doesn’t but wealthy people doing top end holidays appreciate that knowledge and service is probably more important than saving a few quid. The last BA strike being a case in point. You had no chance of getting BA to answer phones and sort it, without numerous and lengthy phone calls. An IATA agent could sort it in a few minutes of an email or phone call. Most people are driven by getting “a bargain” and it works most of the time but don’t expect any help when it all goes wrong if you book via the internet.

Niche travel agents definitely still have a future, high street ones probably not so much as they are just brochure collection points and a price comparison start. Most people have no problem with expecting a travel agent to do the work and then go off and try and better the price on line once they have the recommendations.

I think the point people are missing here is the definition of a package which all changed last year via the Package Travel Regulations 2018.

These days anything you buy from one website or Travel Agent on one invoice including any two of the following: flights/hotel/car hire/tourist service, has to have package protection.

Buying elements separately has no package protection.

To give you an example - i have a ski group going out at Xmas which was booked as a package with Cooks flights. Replacement flights would now cost £250 more per person - we replaced them at no extra cost to the customer.

If the trip was booked as separate elements, the only recourse would be the card it was booked with, they would have had to fund the replacement (more expensive) flights while waiting for any refund, if they still wanted to go ahead with their hols.

DIY holidays are fine if nothing goes wrong - at times like this they are a minefield if one element goes wrong.

All travel agents sell packages, not just Tui, Jet2 etc but also doing the same DIY elements from different suppliers BUT packaging them up with the same protection.

Like all things, sometimes direct or online is cheaper..... but not all the time!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

[Bozza]

Norwegian is intersting as making a loss but have very sound financial backing.

Eh? Their financial problems have been covered as widely as TC's, eg

But Daniel Roeska, an analyst at Bernstein, said doubts pervade over the group’s finances. “The company is levered to the hilt and we haven’t seen any major airline walk away from that mountain of debt without a bankruptcy,” he said.

Mr Roeska warned that while the results are in line with expectations “the crucial months will be over winter”.​

https://www.ft.com/content/f66eb158-a39d-11e9-974c-ad1c6ab5efd1

Norwegian Air, Europe's third-largest low-cost carrier, is seeking a lifeline from bondholders as it grapples with a cash crunch.

It has asked for two more years to repay its largest outstanding bonds, worth $380 million, and is putting up its lucrative landing slots at London's second busiest airport as collateral.​

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/02/business/norwegian-air-debt-restructure/index.html

 

[Icy Gull]

I think the point people are missing here is the definition of a package which all changed last year via the Package Travel Regulations 2018.

These days anything you buy from one website or Travel Agent on one invoice including any two of the following: flights/hotel/car hire/tourist service, has to have package protection.

Buying elements separately has no package protection.

To give you an example - i have a ski group going out at Xmas which was booked as a package with Cooks flights. Replacement flights would now cost £250 more per person - we replaced them at no extra cost to the customer.

If the trip was booked as separate elements, the only recourse would be the card it was booked with, they would have had to fund the replacement (more expensive) flights while waiting for any refund, if they still wanted to go ahead with their hols.

DIY holidays are fine if nothing goes wrong - at times like this they are a minefield if one element goes wrong.

All travel agents sell packages, not just Tui, Jet2 etc but also doing the same DIY elements from different suppliers BUT packaging them up with the same protection.

Like all things, sometimes direct or online is cheaper..... but not all the time!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

You make good and correct observations but I believe that most people who are happy to tailor make their own package, without any financial protection, are relying on protection via the credit card they paid on to recoup their money for any failures. That is a reasonable attitude if they either prefer to book via the internet or believe that they are getting a cheaper deal booking in this way. As you say it is by no means a given that it is cheaper than booking a financially covered package, whether it be single (flights and accommodation) or multi (flights, accommodation and other prebooked arrangements) or even flight only.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

 

[Balders]

You make good and correct observations but I believe that most people who are happy to tailor make their own package, without any financial protection, are relying on protection via the credit card they paid on to recoup their money for any failures. That is a reasonable attitude if they either prefer to book via the internet or believe that they are getting a cheaper deal booking in this way. As you say it is by no means a given that it is cheaper than booking a financially covered package, whether it be single (flights and accommodation) or multi (flights, accommodation and other prebooked arrangements) or even flight only.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

As the phrase goes "each to their own" and I totally respect anybody who prefers to do things different ways.

I will say that I class myself as internet savvy and always used to DIY my own travel. So much so that when redundancy reared it's ugly head 5yrs ago, I took a career change and bought my own travel business.

Personally having seen firat hand all the complications that do happen I'd never do DIY again personally.

Package protection is not just financial and I believe is particularly pertinent to complex multi destination itineraries as well as bog standard packages.

Complications typically occur on flights and include schedule changes that knock itineraries out of sync (really prevalent with US airlines) Route cancellation (Virgin are bad for this) and people buying connecting flights on separate tickets (delayed leg means repurchase of next leg if connection missed) as the trade will always try to book connecting flights on one ticket so delays and missesd connections are covered.

I see the above all the time and we have to make it right at no extra cost or a full refund. Try getting a refund or a flight change from an airline if another airline has changed something necessitating a change in itinerary on a DIY itinerary.

Its one of those things where you only really underatand the complications until it either happens or you experience it on a regular basis.

And in the current situation you probably wouldn't be amazed to know the number of people that do it themselves but phone an agent for advice when their DIY has gone wrong!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

[Icy Gull]

As the phrase goes "each to their own" and I totally respect anybody who prefers to do things different ways.

I will say that I class myself as internet savvy and always used to DIY my own travel. So much so that when redundancy reared it's ugly head 5yrs ago, I took a career change and bought my own travel business.

Personally having seen firat hand all the complications that do happen I'd never do DIY again personally.

Package protection is not just financial and I believe is particularly pertinent to complex multi destination itineraries as well as bog standard packages.

Complications typically occur on flights and include schedule changes that knock itineraries out of sync (really prevalent with US airlines) Route cancellation (Virgin are bad for this) and people buying connecting flights on separate tickets (delayed leg means repurchase of next leg if connection missed) as the trade will always try to book connecting flights on one ticket so delays and missesd connections are covered.

I see the above all the time and we have to make it right at no extra cost or a full refund. Try getting a refund or a flight change from an airline if another airline has changed something necessitating a change in itinerary on a DIY itinerary.

Its one of those things where you only really underatand the complications until it either happens or you experience it on a regular basis.

And in the current situation you probably wouldn't be amazed to know the number of people that do it themselves but phone an agent for advice when their DIY has gone wrong!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Yep, not buying a through ticket on long haul flights, without at least 5 hours on the ground for the connection is an absolute no no imo. It’s often cheaper to break the ticket, can be much cheaper, but the downside is having to buy a new ticket if a connection is missed. Not only that the rest of the itinerary gets cancelled if the airline see a no show on one leg, really bad news if you have a number of onward flights on the ticket. You’re right, it’s a minefield once things go wrong.

 

[pasty]

I'm finding a bit difficult to even find out if my trip is cancelled.

I booked a long weekend in Rome for Mrs P's 60th, via the Thomas Cook website, which includes flights and hotel. However, the flights are actually with EasyJet, and I've contacted them, and they say my flights are still valid. I can't find anything out about my hotel though. Will I have lost it? Will I still be able to claim a FULL refund if I don;t go, even though EasyJet have said my flights are ok? Getting concerned now as supposedly flying out on 4th Oct.

Upside is if cancelled, I will now be able to go to Spurs home match

 

[Weststander]

I think the point people are missing here is the definition of a package which all changed last year via the Package Travel Regulations 2018.

These days anything you buy from one website or Travel Agent on one invoice including any two of the following: flights/hotel/car hire/tourist service, has to have package protection.

Buying elements separately has no package protection.

To give you an example - i have a ski group going out at Xmas which was booked as a package with Cooks flights. Replacement flights would now cost £250 more per person - we replaced them at no extra cost to the customer.

If the trip was booked as separate elements, the only recourse would be the card it was booked with, they would have had to fund the replacement (more expensive) flights while waiting for any refund, if they still wanted to go ahead with their hols.

DIY holidays are fine if nothing goes wrong - at times like this they are a minefield if one element goes wrong.

All travel agents sell packages, not just Tui, Jet2 etc but also doing the same DIY elements from different suppliers BUT packaging them up with the same protection.

Like all things, sometimes direct or online is cheaper..... but not all the time!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Quality and very accurate post.

We haven't bought a package for Med or Ski trips in many years, other than last New Year where an Inghams package to Austria was far cheaper than doing the thing ourselves.

This also proved to be very fortunate in that a blizzard closed Innsbruck airport for a complete Saturday, our going home day. Within a couple of hours Inghams had relocated us and 20 others to a lovely 4* hotel in the middle of historic Innsbruck. Great customer care, taking their duty of care very seriously.

Before that, at that the airport, independent travellers booked on the same Thomas Cook flight, were frantically sourcing on their tablets expensive trains and alternative flights home from German airports 100's of miles away, at their expense. Four figure sums being paid.

 

[Balders]

I'm finding a bit difficult to even find out if my trip is cancelled.

I booked a long weekend in Rome for Mrs P's 60th, via the Thomas Cook website, which includes flights and hotel. However, the flights are actually with EasyJet, and I've contacted them, and they say my flights are still valid. I can't find anything out about my hotel though. Will I have lost it? Will I still be able to claim a FULL refund if I don;t go, even though EasyJet have said my flights are ok? Getting concerned now as supposedly flying out on 4th Oct.

Upside is if cancelled, I will now be able to go to Spurs home match

https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/customers/if-you-have-a-future-booking-and-have-not-traveled-yet/

 

[pasty]

https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/customers/if-you-have-a-future-booking-and-have-not-traveled-yet/

Yup, I'd read that, but there's still some ambiguity about it. I've not been informed, officially or otherwise, if my trip has been cancelled or not. My flights appear to be ok, and that website does state "I'm not obliged to take them", but I still don't know the status of hotel booking. If that is also ok like my flights, there should be no reason we can't go

 

[Balders]

Yup, I'd read that, but there's still some ambiguity about it. I've not been informed, officially or otherwise, if my trip has been cancelled or not. My flights appear to be ok, and that website does state "I'm not obliged to take them", but I still don't know the status of hotel booking. If that is also ok like my flights, there should be no reason we can't go

It's all a bit ambiguous I suspect because the CAA have to set up and train a Call Centre to deal with 800,000 forward bookings, so that isn't fully up to speed yet and they need to qualify what is covered as Cooks sold more than just their own package holidays.

From my understanding of your situation, if Easyjet have confirmed your flights are ok (they should be, Cooks should have paid them immediately on booking) then you need to ascertain whether your Hotel is still accepting your booking. If not and you still want to go, you would need to source and pay for a new Hotel and then make a claim to the CAA for that expense - with the caveat that the claim cannot exceed the total cost of the package you originally paid. Also, your revised arrangements are no longer covered under package protection.

Your other option is don't go and apply for a refund for the full amount from the CAA......