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These Somali pirates.
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
- Jul 17, 2003
- 23,704
Shiver me f***ing timbers!
Leekbrookgull
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #5
Believe raids are carried out by small fast boats,don't they return to a 'mother' ship some of these attacks are miles out in to the sea.
Leekbrookgull
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #7
NMH
Banned
Did those British hostages ever get freed? I can't remember seeing anything more about that story.
BensGrandad
New member
Wouldnt it be better to have an aircraft carrier sailing in the area and then lauch an air attack by 1 plane when a ship has been attacked or would that be bordering on the illegal.
Fef
Rock God.
- Feb 21, 2009
- 1,729
The legality doesn't really seem to matter at the moment.
skipper734
Registered ruffian
Navy releases Somali pirates caught red-handed 
A legal loophole has helped scores of Somali gunmen escape justice
Jon Ungoed-Thomas and Marie Woolf
28 COMMENTS
RECOMMEND? (7)
Somalian pirates who are terrorising yachts and cargo ships in the Indian Ocean are being routinely allowed to go free by international naval forces despite being captured with their weapons and even holding hostages.
Pirates who are seized from the skiffs by the Royal Navy and other maritime forces are pleasantly surprised to find themselves being offered life jackets, medical checks and hot food. They are then often set free, either because they have not been captured “in the act of piracy” or because of the risk that they would claim asylum if prosecuted in Europe.
More than 340 suspected Somalian pirates have been captured in anti-piracy operations over the past year and subsequently released on the advice of lawyers. Some have been disembarked on African beaches because of concerns over the seaworthiness of their vessels.
Julian Brazier, the Conservatives’ shipping spokesman, is to request a meeting with the European Union anti-piracy operation over the disclosure by The Sunday Times.
RELATED LINKS
Pirates threaten to ‘punish’ British couple
Last desperate message before pirate kidnap
“It’s shameful that so many pirates are being returned to do it again,” he said. “The fault lies not with the hard-pressed naval commanders but the ridiculous rules of engagement and operating instructions they are being given by their political masters.”
The RFA Wave Knight, a Royal Navy support vessel, faced criticism when it was disclosed that it had failed to stop the kidnapping by pirates of Paul and Rachel Chandler from their yacht, the Lynn Rival, last month. The crew witnessed the couple, from Tunbridge Wells, Kent, being seized, but did not intervene because they feared they would endanger the Chandlers’ lives.
It has now emerged that this was not the first time pirates had cause to be grateful to the Wave Knight. In April the support vessel was involved in the pursuit of pirates who had attacked a merchant ship. Another Nato vessel, a Dutch ship, joined the chase and the pirates were successfully captured. Thirteen fishermen, who had been held hostage, were found on the pirate vessel, along with a cache of weapons.
It seemed a coup for the Royal Navy and for Nato’s anti-piracy operation. There was just one snag — the pirates were set free. The Ministry of Defence said: “The seven suspected pirates were not captured in the act of piracy so they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.”
A few hours after this incident, the Wave Knight received a distress call from a tanker, the Front Ardennes, which was under attack from another group of pirates. Wave Knight repelled the attack and Nato ships joined the chase. The pirates were detained and again they were released.
After the operation on April 18, Captain Ian Pilling, the commanding officer of Wave Knight, said: “Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa.” He did not explain why pirates detained by the Royal Navy were allowed to go free.
These are not isolated incidents. Last Wednesday a Greek warship, which is part of the EU’s anti-piracy operation, successfully captured pirates suspected of attacking a French cargo vessel. They have now been released.
In June HMS Portland, a Royal Navy frigate, intercepted two skiffs with weapons that “indicated the skiffs had been involved in or were about to conduct an act of piracy”.
The skiffs had 10 suspected pirates aboard and were equipped with fuel barrels, grappling hooks, rocket-propelled grenades, machineguns and ammunition. The pirates were set free because it was claimed there was a lack of evidence that they were linked to a specific pirate attack.
“It is a myth that pirates have to be caught in the act of piracy if they are to be prosecuted,” said Douglas Guilfoyle, a maritime legal expert and law lecturer at University College London. He said that under the United Nations convention on the law of the sea, defendants could be prosecuted for “facilitating” piracy or being on a vessel intended for a pirate attack.
The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation. The factors considered for a possible prosecution include cost, the quality of the evidence and the operational impact.
United States Central Command has revealed that in anti-piracy operations off Somalia between August 2008 and September this year, 343 pirates have been disarmed and released, compared with 212 who have been sent for prosecution. None to date has been sent for prosecution in the UK.
Simon Bennett, secretary of the International Chamber of Shipping, said: “Any pirate attack is a crime against the international community and countries have a duty to prosecute them.”
A shipping line owner, who asked not to be identified, said: “Letting pirates go when they have been caught red-handed is absolutely appalling.”
The Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean have become some of the most dangerous waters in the world because of the Somalian pirates. Three naval operations are tasked with combating piracy: a Nato force; a combined taskforce involving the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Pakistan and other countries; and Navfor, an EU force.
A Nato spokesman said this weekend that it did not have any mandate to arrest and detain pirates, only to disrupt their activities. It was a decision for the commander of each vessel on what do with captives. The combined taskforce has a similar policy.
EU Navfor is tasked with prosecuting pirates and Kenya has agreed to accept cases. Commander John Harbour, of EU Navfor, said 75 suspected pirates were awaiting trial, but suspects were released if there was insufficient evidence.
Kenya is struggling to cope with the numbers of pirates and a transfer agreement has also been made with the Seychelles, raising the prospect of them serving out their sentences in an Indian Ocean paradise.
The Ministry of Defence said: “Counter-piracy operations conducted by international maritime forces, including from the UK, have deterred, disrupted and suppressed a large amount of pirate activity.
“In general, a high evidential threshold needs to be met before transferring of suspected pirates to a regional state, such as Kenya. Where insufficient evidence exists, the Royal Navy will seize and dispose of vessels and other equipment, such as ladders and weapons.”
A legal loophole has helped scores of Somali gunmen escape justice
Jon Ungoed-Thomas and Marie Woolf
28 COMMENTS
RECOMMEND? (7)
Somalian pirates who are terrorising yachts and cargo ships in the Indian Ocean are being routinely allowed to go free by international naval forces despite being captured with their weapons and even holding hostages.
Pirates who are seized from the skiffs by the Royal Navy and other maritime forces are pleasantly surprised to find themselves being offered life jackets, medical checks and hot food. They are then often set free, either because they have not been captured “in the act of piracy” or because of the risk that they would claim asylum if prosecuted in Europe.
More than 340 suspected Somalian pirates have been captured in anti-piracy operations over the past year and subsequently released on the advice of lawyers. Some have been disembarked on African beaches because of concerns over the seaworthiness of their vessels.
Julian Brazier, the Conservatives’ shipping spokesman, is to request a meeting with the European Union anti-piracy operation over the disclosure by The Sunday Times.
RELATED LINKS
Pirates threaten to ‘punish’ British couple
Last desperate message before pirate kidnap
“It’s shameful that so many pirates are being returned to do it again,” he said. “The fault lies not with the hard-pressed naval commanders but the ridiculous rules of engagement and operating instructions they are being given by their political masters.”
The RFA Wave Knight, a Royal Navy support vessel, faced criticism when it was disclosed that it had failed to stop the kidnapping by pirates of Paul and Rachel Chandler from their yacht, the Lynn Rival, last month. The crew witnessed the couple, from Tunbridge Wells, Kent, being seized, but did not intervene because they feared they would endanger the Chandlers’ lives.
It has now emerged that this was not the first time pirates had cause to be grateful to the Wave Knight. In April the support vessel was involved in the pursuit of pirates who had attacked a merchant ship. Another Nato vessel, a Dutch ship, joined the chase and the pirates were successfully captured. Thirteen fishermen, who had been held hostage, were found on the pirate vessel, along with a cache of weapons.
It seemed a coup for the Royal Navy and for Nato’s anti-piracy operation. There was just one snag — the pirates were set free. The Ministry of Defence said: “The seven suspected pirates were not captured in the act of piracy so they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.”
A few hours after this incident, the Wave Knight received a distress call from a tanker, the Front Ardennes, which was under attack from another group of pirates. Wave Knight repelled the attack and Nato ships joined the chase. The pirates were detained and again they were released.
After the operation on April 18, Captain Ian Pilling, the commanding officer of Wave Knight, said: “Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa.” He did not explain why pirates detained by the Royal Navy were allowed to go free.
These are not isolated incidents. Last Wednesday a Greek warship, which is part of the EU’s anti-piracy operation, successfully captured pirates suspected of attacking a French cargo vessel. They have now been released.
In June HMS Portland, a Royal Navy frigate, intercepted two skiffs with weapons that “indicated the skiffs had been involved in or were about to conduct an act of piracy”.
The skiffs had 10 suspected pirates aboard and were equipped with fuel barrels, grappling hooks, rocket-propelled grenades, machineguns and ammunition. The pirates were set free because it was claimed there was a lack of evidence that they were linked to a specific pirate attack.
“It is a myth that pirates have to be caught in the act of piracy if they are to be prosecuted,” said Douglas Guilfoyle, a maritime legal expert and law lecturer at University College London. He said that under the United Nations convention on the law of the sea, defendants could be prosecuted for “facilitating” piracy or being on a vessel intended for a pirate attack.
The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation. The factors considered for a possible prosecution include cost, the quality of the evidence and the operational impact.
United States Central Command has revealed that in anti-piracy operations off Somalia between August 2008 and September this year, 343 pirates have been disarmed and released, compared with 212 who have been sent for prosecution. None to date has been sent for prosecution in the UK.
Simon Bennett, secretary of the International Chamber of Shipping, said: “Any pirate attack is a crime against the international community and countries have a duty to prosecute them.”
A shipping line owner, who asked not to be identified, said: “Letting pirates go when they have been caught red-handed is absolutely appalling.”
The Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean have become some of the most dangerous waters in the world because of the Somalian pirates. Three naval operations are tasked with combating piracy: a Nato force; a combined taskforce involving the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Pakistan and other countries; and Navfor, an EU force.
A Nato spokesman said this weekend that it did not have any mandate to arrest and detain pirates, only to disrupt their activities. It was a decision for the commander of each vessel on what do with captives. The combined taskforce has a similar policy.
EU Navfor is tasked with prosecuting pirates and Kenya has agreed to accept cases. Commander John Harbour, of EU Navfor, said 75 suspected pirates were awaiting trial, but suspects were released if there was insufficient evidence.
Kenya is struggling to cope with the numbers of pirates and a transfer agreement has also been made with the Seychelles, raising the prospect of them serving out their sentences in an Indian Ocean paradise.
The Ministry of Defence said: “Counter-piracy operations conducted by international maritime forces, including from the UK, have deterred, disrupted and suppressed a large amount of pirate activity.
“In general, a high evidential threshold needs to be met before transferring of suspected pirates to a regional state, such as Kenya. Where insufficient evidence exists, the Royal Navy will seize and dispose of vessels and other equipment, such as ladders and weapons.”
Superphil
Dismember
They wouldn't be allowed to intervene. might infringe their human rights.
Porky
New member
If we cannot beat pirates from a Third World country. how can we expect to defeat high tech terrorism.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,851
i think its legality problem, we could go shootting up the pirates but then we'd be guilty of piracy ourselves.
SirDouglasLoft
New member
- Jul 4, 2008
- 6,876
i don't think it would be anymore illegal than firing a torpedo at them!
Poyetry In Motion
Pooetry Motions
these pirates want 4.4million in a ransom and the govnment refuse to help....yet certain banking estblmnts ie Northern rock, HBOS etc hold the country to ransom for billions and the monkeys in westminster roll over and play ball.....roll on May 6th
Ninja Elephant
Doctor Elephant
- Feb 16, 2009
- 18,855
So, we should pay £4.4million to get a couple released from Pirates? How can you compare bailing out Northern Rock, et al, when that was for the good of a LOT of people all over the country. I don't see the comparison, and I don't see the justification to have a pop at Labour for it.
The Conservatives would do EXACTLY the same bloody thing.
hitony
Administrator
Northern Rock, or indeed any other financial institution, should never have been allowed to get in such a mess in the first place.
And to compare human life to what was effectively irresponsible lending and extremely poor management, most definitely is no comparison.
And as for Labour
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,851
to be fair its a long standing Foriegn Office policy. in the past countries that have given ransoms have then been targeted for hostages.