[News] There's no need to panic buy petrol

[Guy Fawkes]

My suspicion is this was a perfect storm of factors which have been building up for a length of time and this was the spark which lit the fuse.

The issue we have is this country is hugely reliant on "just in time" delivery mechanisms. Which is not a problem at all provided there are no sudden spikes of demand which haven't been anticipated or any major blocks to the usual flow of goods and people. This is why we saw the bog roll / pasta / flour shortages last year, and where Brexit comes into play on top of the other long-standing issues.

Just in time logistics were the problem for the shortages of everything you list ?

Or irrational fear that people will be unable to buy a common product (like toilet roll or pasta) led by fake claims that the shortages will last for months and that people will be unable to buy very basic items as virtually all supplies to supermarkets would cease, leading to people massively overstocking up on items which would keep (hence pasta and toilet roll) and creating those very shortages in supermarkets (not because of supply issues, but by creating an unnecessary spike in demand for those products through irresponsible scaremongering

No scaremongering over supplies (like a lack of drivers to deliver to supermarkets as they have all left due to Brexit, which clearly wasn't true) and there wouldn't have been a shortage on the shelves

Covid would have led to some buying more than normal, which was understandable as they wished to reduce their risk of exposure by limiting how often they shopped.

But as some stock up and shelves start to have gaps appearing, as supermarkets await their next scheduled delivery, reporting of gaps by the media (and scaremongering posts about Brexit, the lack of drivers, etc) only leads to more thinking that they better get more than normal too or they too risk missing out and being left with nothing... It's exactly what we are seeing with fuel now, people fearing they will miss out if they wait so refilling more frequently than they need to without thought for the effect it will have on supplies or on other who genuinely need it to carry on working.

 

[LamieRobertson]

That's because of just in time deliveries, they are arranged by the fuel company/retailer, not by government, panic buying initially caused the shortages, this means more sites need more fuel as people chase what's available.

It will take time to sort this out, but you can not have drivers sitting around waiting for excess sales to get them to work. Each station has a capacity of storage and when that storage is used up in one day rather than the average 3 there lies the problem.

The situation will improve and everyone can help, by thinking if they really need the fuel they are buying, topping up £5-£10, unless that's all your finances allow, is pointless. Storiing fuel in cans in the garage is also pointless, and buying fuel to cut you grass is plain stupid let it grow, allow as many people as possible to fill up, then things improve.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

It certainly reassured the public and people would get to know the local officer and pass on thier concerns about people or incidents. Now if you are a victim of a crime you either ring 999 and they eventually come out, take notes and give you a crime number or direct you to the 101 service where they take notes, and give you a crime number and nothing happens. Recently there has been incidents of anti social behaviour in our road, the police know the address, the neighbours who complained know the address but everyone up and down the road has been given a reporting form to keep a diary of the incidents so, we seem to be doing the polices work !

Indeed, the police are more mobile than ever before, the only trouble is they don't stop to do anything !

Also reporting available via the Sussex police website and also available for anti-social behaviour reporting, their operation crackdown site is available to report incidents and also upload footage in support of complaints

If you are saying that there needs to be an officer posted in that neighbourhood to deal with this, is that 24 / 7 / 365? and what happens then, does it stop antisocial behaviour or will it just move it to a new location where there's no police presence? and if they do limited hours in that location, wouldn't it just move to hours outside of their presence?

Or do we need hundreds of thousands of police, constantly on every corner of every street in the UK (at what cost?) to head of this anti-social threat?

 

[Wardy's twin]

Sailing close to the wind or using Just in Time (JIT) logistics which originated in Japan in the 1970's and is now widely used across the globe but that won't stop those with an agenda from blaming the Government here for any supply issues currently faced by our industries

We as a consumer demand cheap goods, so JIT allows companies to keep costs down and pass savings on - again not sure why that too is the Governments fault or how they get blamed for that?

So how exactly have the Government added to the problem that some are experiencing in their own supply chains? - Such as a global shortage of computer chips? caused by manufacturing of new chips slowing or stopping as the pandemic hit and a fall in demand, coupled with covid safety measures leading to reduced numbers being needed and so produced. Fast forward to closer to now, and a lot of manufacturing has started up once again and demand for parts skyrockets but suppliers struggled to keep up with this global demand as they simply have gone from almost a standing start to 100% in no time at all - again how is this caused by our Government and what should they have done differently to avoid this global phenonium? - should everyone run out and buy as many items as they can which need computer chips to somehow alleviate the shortage (as they have done with fuel, which clearly worked so well)

Yet people will still tell you it's all down to Brexit, the Governments incompetence and so on as it suits their fictional narrative and their political agendas

Says someone who is turning a blind eye on the problem that BREXIT caused by the removal of 14k drivers practically overnight which basically screwed the JIT model.

BREXIT is not the whole problem but it certainly helped precipitate this one.

What this government is responsible for is ensuring a strategy that meets the demands of its population and surely that's what getting back control was all about. So if we have an economy that needs 100k lorry drivers the Dept of Transport should be taking steps to ensure there are 100k and if that means free courses and incentives to train then that's what they facilitate, if that means building a network of decent lorry parks then that's what they need to do.

Government is about governing not handing over to mates in private industry to f*ck up.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Also worth pointing out if private companies and trade organisations were warning of shortages in a sector for some time there was an obvious solution ... increase wages and improve working conditions to attract more drivers.

The pandemic has had an affect too, as training and tests were cancelled during lockdowns resulting in fewer newly qualified drivers than there would have otherwise been (but as that's not the Government or Brexit's fault, it barely gets a mention by those blaming the former)

 

[pocketseagull]

Yes, really common across industries since 2008. It’s been a way of keeping costs down. Unfortunately it also creates an open goal for people who don’t understand, to fit it to their general complaints about life. And here we are.

Wait. You understand the importance of Just in Time logistics and still voted for Brexit?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Says someone who is turning a blind eye on the problem that BREXIT caused by the removal of 14k drivers practically overnight which basically screwed the JIT model.

BREXIT is not the whole problem but it certainly helped precipitate this one.

What this government is responsible for is ensuring a strategy that meets the demands of its population and surely that's what getting back control was all about. So if we have an economy that needs 100k lorry drivers the Dept of Transport should be taking steps to ensure there are 100k and if that means free courses and incentives to train then that's what they facilitate, if that means building a network of decent lorry parks then that's what they need to do.

Government is about governing not handing over to mates in private industry to f*ck up.

Yet they were coping with a big driver shortage long before Brexit, without all this panic buying whipped up by those with an agenda (the bigger problem has been getting those who wish to join the industry7 into work as training and testing HGV drivers has been dramatically affected by the pandemic with more waiting to join than were lost by Brexit)

Simply the industry isn't attractive to work in, (as others have pointed out, poor working conditions, away from home for long periods of time, poor roadside facilities, etc) Something to address those shortages could easily have been done before Brexit, improve facilities, etc and pay higher wages but it is a privately run industry, not Government run. There wasn't this public clamour to blame the Government then for a shortage of drivers before Brexit, or to fix the issues within the industry (conditions, facilities, wages)

How many industries, businesses, etc are fully staffed, with every role always filled? how many have gaps which aren't actively being filled? Why would the Government be responsible for filling gaps in privately run businesses and industries?

So why now suddenly it's the Government to blame for it all is beyond me

 

[WATFORD zero]

The pandemic has had an affect too, as training and tests were cancelled during lockdowns resulting in fewer newly qualified drivers than there would have otherwise been (but as that's not the Government or Brexit's fault, it barely gets a mention by those blaming the former)

That is absolute and complete rubbish.

Throughout this thread, the majority of people (who aren't blaming a BBC conspiracy) have blamed an underlying shortage of HGV drivers which has been building over the last 10 years and which has now been accelerated by Covid and Brexit, all under the same Government. See if you can spot which 2 of these 3 people think they are responsible for ?

And yet you and others have been claiming throughout this thread that the cause is a BBC led media conspiracy. In your never ending attempts to defend Johnson's Government, you are even contradicting yourself

 

[vegster]

Also reporting available via the Sussex police website and also available for anti-social behaviour reporting, their operation crackdown site is available to report incidents and also upload footage in support of complaints

If you are saying that there needs to be an officer posted in that neighbourhood to deal with this, is that 24 / 7 / 365? and what happens then, does it stop antisocial behaviour or will it just move it to a new location where there's no police presence? and if they do limited hours in that location, wouldn't it just move to hours outside of their presence?

Or do we need hundreds of thousands of police, constantly on every corner of every street in the UK (at what cost?) to head of this anti-social threat?

There is a footbridge over the railway line near me, I often see drug deals going down and people waiting nervously, i'm sure its been reported but it keeps happening. they deal by the footbridge as they know its unlikely the police will get out of their cars to chase them .

 

[Wardy's twin]

Also reporting available via the Sussex police website and also available for anti-social behaviour reporting, their operation crackdown site is available to report incidents and also upload footage in support of complaints

If you are saying that there needs to be an officer posted in that neighbourhood to deal with this, is that 24 / 7 / 365? and what happens then, does it stop antisocial behaviour or will it just move it to a new location where there's no police presence? and if they do limited hours in that location, wouldn't it just move to hours outside of their presence?

Or do we need hundreds of thousands of police, constantly on every corner of every street in the UK (at what cost?) to head of this anti-social threat?

In the real world reporting crimes does not really work and that's my personal experience and the view of a lot of people I know. It's got to the point why bother and by doing so the bar is raised and petty crime goes on, increases and then the bar is raised again.

Sentences need to be stronger, we have become adverse to sending people to prison on both a cost basis and because people say that it does not stop people. It does if they are inside prison and while prison does not deter the hardened criminal it does stop or at least give greater cause for thought for many petty criminals and that includes driving at excessive speeds. People will point to America where this does not work , it doesn't work because of the level of social injustice. So reducing poverty has to be achieved in parallel.

Clearly drugs play a big part in criminality , I don't know enough about the pros and cons of legalising some(all) of them but we need to sort this if we want to improve our society.

Finally bringing this back to focus about police and the petrol situation. Personal experience of my one visit to a petrol station was that there is an accident waiting to happen with the warren road blocked for more than half mile and cars using wrong side of the road to overtake at speed. This happens every time the petrol arrives it needs policing , even if that is a PCSO.

One final point there are already enough police they are just not doing what they should be e.g. if you run a fox hunt and want to commit a crime then phone the police who will turn up in numbers to stop the protestors who are upholding the law. If someone has broken into your house then tough claim it on the insurance.

 

[A1X]

Just in time logistics were the problem for the shortages of everything you list ?

It played a significant part, yes.

 

[A1X]

These responses have certainly got me thinking

Underlying problems in the supply chain

or

BBC plot to bring the country to a standstill and undermine the Government

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Well you could have mentioned it earlier. I spent 30 mins queueing at Asda at that time this morning

Well you could 'of' asked

 

[jessiejames]

Yet they were coping with a big driver shortage long before Brexit, without all this panic buying whipped up by those with an agenda (the bigger problem has been getting those who wish to join the industry7 into work as training and testing HGV drivers has been dramatically affected by the pandemic with more waiting to join than were lost by Brexit)

Simply the industry isn't attractive to work in, (as others have pointed out, poor working conditions, away from home for long periods of time, poor roadside facilities, etc) Something to address those shortages could easily have been done before Brexit, improve facilities, etc and pay higher wages but it is a privately run industry, not Government run. There wasn't this public clamour to blame the Government then for a shortage of drivers before Brexit, or to fix the issues within the industry (conditions, facilities, wages)

How many industries, businesses, etc are fully staffed, with every role always filled? how many have gaps which aren't actively being filled? Why would the Government be responsible for filling gaps in privately run businesses and industries?

So why now suddenly it's the Government to blame for it all is beyond me

The problem is the Government knew back in 2009 that there would be a shortage of drivers, and as recently as 2017 it was estimated that by 2022, that shortfall could be as high as 100,000. Im not going to go on about the main reasons why again, but that would have been a good time to start offering incentives to get people into the industry, to get a HGV licence is going to cost between 4 & 5 thousand pounds, maybe offering grants to help pay for these licences. Many companies will not take on newly passed HGV drivers due to insurance issues, these could have been addressed.

Yes Brexit did not help but how many of those drivers that have gone back home had ADR or PDP licence. So let's not blame this fuel problem on brexit. This is down to panic buying to start with and now topping up.
I passed a forecourt that was having a delivery this morning, the queuing was approximately 30 odd vehicles, the tanker had only just turned up. Anyway I went inside to get a coffee and was speaking to the cashier, she said that in a normal week they would have 2 to 3 deliveries a week, at the moment it's a delivery every day if they can get one. I asked if there was a maximum amount you could have and she said it's not worth it as 70% of the spend on fuel was less than £20.

 

[T.G]

No



No - Forecourts and fuel deliveries to them are run by private businesses, why should the Government have been pre-empting a problem that has only been created by hysteria and nothing else. There was plenty of fuel to go around, so if everyone had continued as normal (as the Government requested) then we wouldn't have had this situation arise

Not sure what those criticising the Government would have wanted them to say instead? - yes there is a crisis, panic and buy every drop you can now even if it leaves those who provide critical services unable to get fuel to carry on providing those critical services

What has caused this more is the constant sniping by those with a political agenda, those who constantly have claimed that the country is falling apart, that everything will be in very short supply due to Brexit (so if someone hears of a slight shortage they fear it's the start of that prediction and panic) and also those who like to class the Government as liars and untrustworthy so when they do call for calm rational behaviour, then their message has already been undermined by those driving their liars / untrustworthy narratives and results in irrational behaviour and the need to keep their fuel tanks topped to the brim, even if they don't actually need it and it leaves others without

If someone claimed that there was a slight supply problem for any old product now, it's highly likely that the same irrational, selfish behaviour would lead to widescale shortages as too many of our society are just looking out for number one and have little interest in the greater good for society as a whole, we've seen it several times throughout this pandemic

No
Yes there is fuel but the problem is delivering it! This is a result of the governments, policies and lack of planning

 

[pocketseagull]

It's been clear for a while now from the empty shelves in our supermarkets that something is seriously wrong and I reckon that has exacerbated the fuel crisis.

Ironic that people voting against Corbyn has brought Soviet scenes to our shops and streets.

 

[Justice]

How many forecourts do you think there are in the country? and how many of those have actually needed policing due to punch ups or whatever?

How many coppers would it take away from other, far higher priority area policing to accomplish this plan of yours?

And if they did and public safety was compromised, crime detection and solving levels dropped, etc... don't you think the very same people who would have ask for policing at forecourts would be the first to complain about their failing to provide their usual effectiveness in policing the country?

That argument is a bit like calling for police to be present at every pub up and down the country in case there is a punch up there, which is simply impractical

Surely better to respond to an incident if one arises as they would do with a pub, besides forecourts have very good cctv and will have evidence for a prosecution that the police could collect and use to prosecute without having to be there for the initial incident

Besides, forecourts are private businesses, shouldn't they manage themselves rather than need the Government or the police to jump in to manage them if they get busy?

If I was sceptical I would say your reply is more geared around the police hitting numbers than policing for the good of the community.

In the same respect surely cctv, traffic cams and anpr take away the need for deploying police man power at road blocks. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Acker79]

I think part of the problem is the term 'panic buy'. I think a large number of people don't think they are panic buying, they're just being cautious. Sure, they've got plenty in the tank for the next week or two, but what if it's not over by then? What if we have an emergency and don't have enough? It's just sensible, if all those idiots are going to panic buy causing the garages to run out, that we just top up now, so we're prepared in the event of an emergency.

If instead of 'don't panic buy' it was presented as 'if you're not running low, just leave it for now', and maybe it would stop some of the people who have been needlessly buying.

 

[drew]

Yet they were coping with a big driver shortage long before Brexit, without all this panic buying whipped up by those with an agenda (the bigger problem has been getting those who wish to join the industry7 into work as training and testing HGV drivers has been dramatically affected by the pandemic with more waiting to join than were lost by Brexit)

Simply the industry isn't attractive to work in, (as others have pointed out, poor working conditions, away from home for long periods of time, poor roadside facilities, etc) Something to address those shortages could easily have been done before Brexit, improve facilities, etc and pay higher wages but it is a privately run industry, not Government run. There wasn't this public clamour to blame the Government then for a shortage of drivers before Brexit, or to fix the issues within the industry (conditions, facilities, wages)

How many industries, businesses, etc are fully staffed, with every role always filled? how many have gaps which aren't actively being filled? Why would the Government be responsible for filling gaps in privately run businesses and industries?

So why now suddenly it's the Government to blame for it all is beyond me

Hang on, firstly you say the problem is getting those that wish to work in the industry trained and tested but that was hampered by the pandemic and then you it's because the industry isn't attractive to work in! If it's the latter then that would suggest there aren't many that want to get trained and tested!

Then you don't blame the Government but they are responsible for the testing element. The DVSA are a complete shower of shite and there have been massive problems at DVLA with issuing licences due to poor management. Both of those are government bodies.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Yet they were coping with a big driver shortage long before Brexit, without all this panic buying whipped up by those with an agenda (the bigger problem has been getting those who wish to join the industry7 into work as training and testing HGV drivers has been dramatically affected by the pandemic with more waiting to join than were lost by Brexit)

Simply the industry isn't attractive to work in, (as others have pointed out, poor working conditions, away from home for long periods of time, poor roadside facilities, etc) Something to address those shortages could easily have been done before Brexit, improve facilities, etc and pay higher wages but it is a privately run industry, not Government run. There wasn't this public clamour to blame the Government then for a shortage of drivers before Brexit, or to fix the issues within the industry (conditions, facilities, wages)

How many industries, businesses, etc are fully staffed, with every role always filled? how many have gaps which aren't actively being filled? Why would the Government be responsible for filling gaps in privately run businesses and industries?

So why now suddenly it's the Government to blame for it all is beyond me

1) Not sure where that information comes from as there have been declining numbers of HGV drivers for 10 years at least. Pandemic is also part of the problem but the shortage goes a lot deeper than that. BREXIT is a more significant hit.

2) Because we hadn't hit the problem , we have now and the loss of so many drivers because of BREXIT tipped the balance. It did not cause it , it just precipitated it. The problem would have slowly hit us .

3) If BREXIT and foreign drivers were not the issue why is the government thinking about relaxing VISA rules?

4) the problem is that to maintain a society there are some key essentials that need to be provided food, education, health , power ( gas, electricity, fuel) , water and communications (rocketed in importance in lockdown ) and so HGV drivers become important as they make sure these are delivered to a point of contact.

5) Not suddenly. Governments role is not to provide these facilities directly but to ensure they is sufficient otherwise society breaks down .

Just look at the procrastination about getting the army involved , the government is not governing in a timely manner.