The tories steal a march on Labour/Caplin

[Uncle Spielberg]

Nicholas Boles, the next candidate for the Conservatives for Hove/Portslade at the next elections has given his full backing to Falmer as has Shadow cabinet minister, Julie Kirkbride.

They realise all too well the significance of this decision and the political weight of backing the plan.

Ivor should be bending Prescotts ears to get off his backside and make the decision NOW as people are at the end of their tether and patience will run out soon.

Ivor is going to be a lame duck at the elections if Prescott says no.

If this decision was left to the Conservative environment secretary it would have been approved weeks ago.

Yet another example of Labour being out of touch with the electorate ?.

 

[Southy]

If this decision was left to the Conservative environment secretary it would have been approved weeks ago.

That is bollocks. The Tories have always been very lukewarm as regards the Albion. Remember how anti they were us coming to Withdean? They just see a chance to win back Hove in the next election.

 

[zefarelly]

I doubt it Gareth . . . 90% of people are not going to change political allegiance for a football ground, like it or not, and again however much we harp on we're only a small minority of the electorate.

if 65000 peopl say yes to Falmer and theres over 1/4 million people eligible to vote then your never going to be a majority.

I can understand the tories sucking on to it though . . . . theyre so fekkin useless they have to latch onto whatever they can in order to win a vote or two!

sorry its not nice reading . . .but I believe it is fairly factual

perhaps if the council had supported the community stadium as well as the club has a new ground it'd be a different matter, but thats not happened and its not going to happen.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Gareth -

If you only knew how helpful Ivor was being at the moment, you would delete that post.

Quite a lot goes on behind the scenes.

 

[The Large One]

Quality political comment from the Beano's chief political correspondent.

The is a classic piece of Tories indulging in bandwagon jumping. The only reason they want Falmer to go ahead is to get the Albion out of Withdean. NO OTHER REASON. And the Tories are split on this issue locally.

The Tories are happy if football disappears off the map. Remember Colin Moynihan? Thatcher accusing ALL England fans of being scum, and asking the FA not to go to Italia 90?

Who says that the Tories work any quicker in power? It is the SAME civil servants who are making this decision, irrespective of which party is in power at the time.

Apart from that, excellent summation, Gareth.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Lord

You misunderstand. I know how much Ivor has done but they are losing political clout and ground to the tories who are jumping on the bankwagon admittedly.

I have posted numerous times how good Ivor has been in Hove and he should win on that basis but he has a struggle next time out.

Gareth

 

[Spiros]

Gareth -

If you only knew how helpful Ivor was being at the moment, you would delete that post.

Quite a lot goes on behind the scenes.

I've always felt that the opportunity for Ivor to be really useful was before the decision was made to call the Falmer plans in. If he had any real influence there would have been no public enquiry in the first place and the ground would be close to finished by now.

Even if quite a lot is going on behind the scenes now, it doesn't seem to me like it was before.

 

[Storer68]

and as he is now a minister at the MoD he's got a lot more on his plate than some tory upstart prospective candidate at the moment

like having to bugger of f to iraq at a moments notice

 

[Hadlee]

Don't forget it was the Tory's in Hove Council who gave permission for the Goldstone to be built on before we had a new home !

Would'nt trust them as far as I could throw them.

And another thing, Ashburton Grove was not called in for a public enquiry despite that fact that the development uprooted Homes & Businesses, and Falmer (not a single House or Business disturbed) was ?

 

[The Large One]

I've always felt that the opportunity for Ivor to be really useful was before the decision was made to call the Falmer plans in. If he had any real influence there would have been no public enquiry in the first place and the ground would be close to finished by now.

Even if quite a lot is going on behind the scenes now, it doesn't seem to me like it was before.

FFS, give me strength. A mere backbench MP (as he was at the time) has absolutely NO INFLUENCE on this sort of decision-making process. Even ministers (as he is now) have no say in this matter. It is a matter for the the Dept of the Environment, and the ODPM. No-one else.

The scenario (then):

Caplin: Er, Mr Deputy Prime Minister. About this Falmer plan, can you not bother calling it in, and abiding by the council's decision? We would be grateful.
Prescott: Who the f*** are you?

The scenario (now):
Caplin: Er, Mr Deputy Prime Minister. About this Falmer decision, can you hurry up with the decision, as my constituents ae getting restless, and a few of them think I have the power to influence your decision, give you a hard time, and ultimately kick the shit out of you.
Prescott: Not you again. Who are the f*** are you, again?

 

[Spiros]

FFS, give me strength. A mere backbench MP (as he was at the time) has absolutely NO INFLUENCE on this sort of decision-making process. Even ministers (as he is now) have no say in this matter. It is a matter for the the Dept of the Environment, and the ODPM. No-one else.

At the time I remember much being made about Ivor being a junior minister and the fact that his boss (Barbara someone?)enjoyed a good relationship with Two Jags. If you truly believe that decisions made by a government department are made without undue influence from others with their own agenda - especially ministers - then that is your choice. My own belief is that this is part process, part politics.

Also, if Ivor has no influence about anything with anyone, what is the point in him getting involved, other than just as any other supporter?

 

[The Large One]

Also, if Ivor has no influence about anything with anyone, what is the point in him getting involved, other than just as any other supporter?

Mainly because he's a HIGH PROFILE supporter.

BTW Why does Ivor Caplin get it in the neck from so many people so much of the time when it's land in David Lepper's constituency we are talking about here?

 

[Mr C]

I am not so sure local issues will come into it. I think their incompetence, corruption, and arrogance has already lost Labour the next election anyway

 

[The Large One]

Mr C: I think it's fair to say that Labour will win the next general election - even Michael Howard said so. No party has ever come close to overturning such a massive majority in the House of Commons. Especially something as useless and out of touch as the Conservative Party.

I suspect Labour will win with a much reduced majority - maybe as little as 70 or 80 seats. Which if you look at it is still fairly big.

 

[Spiros]

Mainly because he's a HIGH PROFILE supporter.

BTW Why does Ivor Caplin get it in the neck from so many people so much of the time when it's land in David Lepper's constituency we are talking about here?

Well from your previous post his profile isn't high enough for Prescott to notice him!

Ivor is a long-standing supporter of football in the area, but the reason I have a downer on him is that I think he either missed (or didn't make the most of) an opportunity to nip the public enquiry in the bud. Also, of the 3 local MPs he is the one who has always liked to associate himself with the club and bask in a bit of reflected glory - like after the championship wins. I just get the impression that he has not pulled out all the stops in the past in case it affected his (then) fledgling political career.

Much as I despise the man, Norman Baker seems to exert more influence on things than Ivor does and his party is not in government.

 

[Life After Bobby]

If you truly believe that decisions made by a government department are made without undue influence from others with their own agenda - especially ministers - then that is your choice. My own belief is that this is part process, part politics.

Also, if Ivor has no influence about anything with anyone, what is the point in him getting involved, other than just as any other supporter?

well at this point in time, the relevant minister(s) at the odpm are doing their best to avoid talking to anyone, especially Caplin, lobbying on this issue. and we should actually be grateful of that fact.

because, as has been said before, it is of paramount importance that the decision is made on planning grounds (the laws and guidance for which are originally decided politically) to make the decision bullet proof to a judicial review (which looks at how the decision has been made)

if you're confident that planning guidance supports the ground - and Brighton & Hove City Council seem to think so - then...

 

[The Large One]

Norman Baker has f*** all influence on the Government. Nothing he has said has ever influenced Government policy. He is just a loud mouth who opposes everything on principle.

I repeat. Caplin has NEVER been in a position to stop a Council decision from being called in. The decision is made by civil servants in the Dept of the Environment. Slight error on my part; at the time, Caplin was a Government whip, not a backbencher. He was therefore not allowed to comment, let alone have any influence on that decision - if he had the power in the first place to do that. He'd previously lost is job as PPA to Leader of the House Anne Taylor immediately after the 2001 General Election.

 

[Spiros]

well at this point in time, the relevant minister(s) at the odpm are doing their best to avoid talking to anyone, especially Caplin, lobbying on this issue. and we should actually be grateful of that fact.

And quite right too. The time for using all available influence was before the plan was called in. That particular boat was missed. As somebody else has pointed out, Arsenal's application for Ashburton Grive wasn't called in and that is for a bigger site in an area that affects far more people. From Arsenal's perspective, the right 'behind the scenes' influence may have been used.

TLO - I share your distaste for Baker, but you have to admit that he does 'put himself about'. When the transport dept put out their plans for changes to the A27 at Beddingham I heard someone from the government (can't remember who) admitting on the radio that the plan was heavily influenced by Baker's representations.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Isn't Falmer in Brighton Kemptown rather than Pavilion?

And anyway, I think Caplin will lose at the election regardless of Falmer: he's been a depressingly long way up Blair's arse over the whole war thing. At least Turner and Lepper rebelled.

By the way, no I don't want an argument about the war. Sorry.

 

[triptolemus]

Gareth -

If you only knew how helpful Ivor was being at the moment, you would delete that post.

Quite a lot goes on behind the scenes.

Indeed it does. One need look back no further than the spectacular own goal the Labour faction on Hove Council scored in 1992-3 which cost us the Goldstone. And no, I am not a Tory, Lord B, nor from Withdean, and I'm definitely pro-Falmer. I just happen to think Labour owes us a ground, because they lost it in the first place.