The Scale of the Universe

[Hungry Joe]

Thank you. I feel enormously proud to have solved a great theo-sociological mystery this morning.

And so you should.

Is anyone good at using paint on here, like that Jim'll paint it bloke? This is crying out for a cartoon of God in crocs standing next to Jesus in sandals saying "these are much better son".

 

[One Love]

Explain your reasoning as to how you came to believe in God. At what point did you decide God might exist, at what point did you test your idea and how did you prove it? Didn't? Then your belief is just that: pure guesswork from uninformed opinion. And if you then go around stating it as some sort of fact, just because it's in your head, then yes that's embarrassing.

Explain your reasoning as to how you came to not believe in God. At what point did you decide that God might not exist, at what point did you test your idea and how did you prove it? Didn't? Then your belief is just that: pure guesswork from uninformed opinion. And if you then go around stating it as some sort of fact, just because it's in your head, then yes that's embarrassing.

 

[jgmcdee]

The gnostic atheists are wrong, I am sure of that much - I accept I could be wrong about my personal theist beliefs, so I remain open minded - unlike many atheists.

I'm always fascinated by this argument. Do you know any atheists who wouldn't be swayed by a single miracle in to believing in God? Certainly all of them I've spoken to say that all it would take would be one certifiable instance for them to switch. Their definition of miracle varies widely, but it's there for all of them.

 

[Stat Brother]

For those not watching Science Club with the latest member of The NSC Brainy Totty club (not Dara!), have a play with this:-

http://htwins.net/scale/

I was going for my third punt in appreciation of the actual gizmo.

But it's occurred to me, nobody has questioned the latest entrant into The NSC Brainy Totty club

 

[Lady Whistledown]

And so you should.

Is anyone good at using paint on here, like that Jim'll paint it bloke? This is crying out for a cartoon of God in crocs standing next to Jesus in sandals saying "these are much better son".

Is God allowed to tell lies?

 

[Munkfish]

Not many people live and believe in the views and ideas of the old testement. rightly so as its a load of bollocks.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Mine wasn't the first.

Explain your reasoning as to how you came to believe in God. At what point did you decide God might exist, at what point did you test your idea and how did you prove it? Didn't? Then your belief is just that: pure guesswork from uninformed opinion. And if you then go around stating it as some sort of fact, just because it's in your head, then yes that's embarrassing.

embarrassing to who? me? i'm certainly not embarrassed by my beliefs...

i can answer your points if you're really bothered (i suspect you're not).

1) My reasoning is based on work in my life and numerous friends and family which lead me to really struggle not to believe in God. I can go into specifics if you're bothered
2) Not far off a year ago
3) My faith is tested every day
4) 'Guesswork' and 'uninformed' are far too simplistic terms
5) Do i go around stated 'it' (what?) as some sort of fact? No...it's called belief or faith for a reason. Do I 'believe' my 'beliefs' to be true? Obviously

 

[Monkey Man]

Have you never wondered what defines the laws of physics? For example if gravity were slightly stronger, the universe would collapse in on itself - if it were slightly weaker, the planets wouldn't form. Or take the nuclear forces - try to imagine what the universe would be like if each element didn't have unique and specific properties - oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, metals and so on - It is not just our evolution that abides by specific and crucial laws to exist , the entire universe does. Can you think of any physical law that doesn't have a purpose? Probably not, we live in a profoundly purposeful universe, which seems to have been tweaked to allow it to become what it is.

...and besides, what makes you think we are in the middle of nowhere, and what makes you think we will be on this planet in a few billion years time?

The "middle of nowhere" line was a bit of a throwaway one, admittedly. What I meant was, we're surrounded by light years of empty space and hostile planets, none of which we are capable of inhabiting. So it's kind of lonely.

I don't think we'll be on this planet in a couple of billion years time. I think humans will be extinct well before then.

I'm no scientist so can't even begin to answer your fundamental question. Maybe we'll never know the answers, even if we get glimpses of some of the explanation as science advances. I did once read a book which suggested that the laws of physics may well change in different parts of the universe but frankly it's all far too big to get my head around - and as someone else said, there's football to discuss in the meantime.

The fundamental weirdness of the universe - or indeed the order to it that you describe - doesn't make it more likely that it was intelligently designed, at least not to me. It just makes me think how much there is to discover about science.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

If God created the universe... where was he standing at the time?

And if all he really wanted was to play games with a bunch of humans in some kind of celestial bell-jar experiment, why create all those untold trillions and trillions of galaxies, stars and planets? Perhaps he just fancied seeing a pretty night sky?

Religionists, all of whom are of course atheists themselves - for everyone else's God - are forever having to adapt their formulations in order to accommodate each new advance in science and medicine.

One remaining mystery is humans' continuing enslavement - in the 21st century - to an assortment of competing gods dreamed up by men who thought the earth was flat. Now that really is a miracle.

 

[Ravids]

To be honest, even with Evolution, even with the "big bang" (which wasn't a bang), even with science, surely no one can say that God 100% doesn't exist. The same way a theist can't really say God 100% does. Even Richard Dawkins, one of the world's leading atheists says on a scale of 1 to 7, 7 being you don't believe in God, and 1 being you do he puts him self at 6 on that scale, there's always a possibility either way.

I believe in evolution, well I don't really believe it, I've accepted it, the whole big bang thing though I don't fully believe, it's even disputed by scientists and there are some scientific theories which are cropping up that may suggest the universe is infinite in size and has always been in existence, it never had a beginning (This blows my mind). But I do think there is a God of some sorts out there though, I'm not 100% as this God hasn't really done anything for me, but I'm leaning more to the side of believing there's a God than believing that there isn't.

The universe is an amazing thing which has baffled, amazed and captured the imagination of humans ever since we began to question and relate. I hope I live forever just to see what we'll end up finding out about it. That website the OP posted I've seen before and it's an amazing little tool to play with.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Not many people live and believe in the views and ideas of the old testement. rightly so as its a load of bollocks.

the old testament certainly places a large strain on my faith.....to be honest there are large chunks which I simply can't understand and I'm not sure I ever will

 

[jgmcdee]

Multiverse is a hypothesis, not a theory - There is no evidence supporting it, it is used by atheists clutching at straws.

It's one of the more valid interpretations of quantum physics. But you're right, clutching at straws, back to the guy with the beard.

Even the popular string theory, or M-theory, hypothesise that there are only 6-9 dimensions, rather than infinite like you suggest.

Multiverse has nothing to do with dimensions or string theory, and is only tagentially associated with M-theory.

 

[Bold Seagull]

My theist beliefs come from learning from science, philosophy, quantum physics and other knowledge that we have to understand the universe, reality, life and ourselves - as well as good old fashioned experience & intuition.

The gnostic atheists are wrong, I am sure of that much - I accept I could be wrong about my personal theist beliefs, so I remain open minded - unlike many atheists.

How can you say many atheists are not open minded? The only thing that would stop them being an atheist is to believe in God...how do you know that should proof be found, they wouldn't accept it openly.

You're statements are so full of contradictions, but you consistently make the same premise that all atheists are like a religion themselves. This is simply wrong. An atheist is only defined by a single thing - not believing in God. There is nothing more that can define them as to how open minded they are, they could still believe the world is flat for all you know.

To say you remain open minded unlike many atheists is simply wrong, as the only thing you are saying they are not open minded to is that God exists. You are desperately trying to suggest that those without faith, somehow have faith in not believing in God. They don't need that conviction, there is no required book of atheism that says 'thou shalt not believe in God', it's no different to a person saying 'I don't believe in Aliens'.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Is God allowed to tell lies?

This is an interesting question. If you accept the (barnpot) notion that God is creator of all, then by that token he created the subjective concept of 'truth', or at least the beings that would come up with the concept. What is without doubt is that the statement in the cartoon is a lie, as we all know crocs are the Devil's work, and therefore can't be better than sandals, unless of course you're a Satanist. But let's not go there just yet. So, God is lying, or at the very least being mischievous. Is he allowed to lie then? Well, who's going to argue that he isn't? Everything exists to his rules. But what about the commandment "thou shalt not lie"? then. The helpful biblestudytools.com can help us out here; 'Lying is a huge issue for many people, including Christians. "Thou shall not lie" is one of the ten commandments, but even Christians have trouble with this commandment. God can help you tell the truth in every situation.' Conveniently as clear as mud then. I have therefore concluded that yes, God is allowed to tell lies, but only on Sundays.

 

[pastafarian]

Our Moon is well big!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

as we all know crocs are the Devil's work

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is the one major point that all of us should take from this thread.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is the one major point that all of us should take from this thread.

thread closed?

 

[Hungry Joe]

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is the one major point that all of us should take from this thread.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

the old testament certainly places a large strain on my faith.....to be honest there are large chunks which I simply can't understand and I'm not sure I ever will

Start with the thought that it's written in riddles and intended to make you think. Just like the Bhagavad Gita, the Qur'an, the Bororo Myth of the Origins of the Sun and the Moon, or the novels of George Eliot.

And stop worrying about The Truth.

If you really want (or need) The Truth, read The Internet. If you can be bothered.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Tis true. The handbag-skinned deviants can move their organs around in their bodies to enable them to float at different angles. So if they just want eyes anywhere the surface of the river of death, down to their tails they fling a bit of liver or a lung or a really really dirty thought perhaps about that orangutan slowly shaving its back-arms that would weigh anyone down so that their top-end is more hollow. The devious devil's unnatural work as a sponsor of death.