The public service cuts & strike action.

[drew]

So what's your suggestion to the current mess? Keep spending until we all go pop?

For christ's sake its nothing more than common sense....cuts are what is required and that's what happened.

A bit of a no-brainer really.

The good old 'no brainer' argument. Nobody is suggesting that spending has to increase but the savage cuts proposed risk sending the economy into double dip recession. Everybody bangs on about cutting the public sector but as other posters have alluded to, this will have a knock on effect on the private sector that provides services/supplies to the 'public sector'.

What will get us heading in the right direction sooner will of course be prudence with the public purse but more importantly by stimulating demand. Increase demand then the private sector can increase output and hopefully productivity. The argument that Canada achieved back in the 90s what the Tories are proposing is often quoted however there are many economists that argue that the measures taken hindered their recovery which would have happened due to increased demand over the subsequent period from Canada's biggest customer, the USA. ie Demand increased.

There are going to be cuts in eduction yet how often do we hear private companies complaining about the quality of those entering the job market.

There will be cuts in defence yet we are fighting a war.

We have already seen the coalition withdraw a loan facility for a british company which would have enabled them to compete in the supplying equipment for building nuclear reactors. That's a loan facility, ie it will be paid back with interest. Our nuclear programme will now be put back so we are even further at the mercy of fossil fuel suppliers.

So Mr 'No Brainer' exactly how is the private sector going to expand if there is no increased demand for their products/services.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am a public sector worker. I have been in the civil service for nearly 24years. I am an Executive Officer at the pay scale maximum yet I still earn less than £24,500.

Executive officers, who typically work as supervisors and in roles that require a vocational qualification, are paid 18% less than the private sector. Some reward eh?

whats that got to do with? the pay is a seperate issue, if you feel so underpaid why have you not moved to a btter pay role?

My last pension statement showed my predicted annual civil service pension at retirement age after 38 years service to be £10,500pa. So this is the "gold plated" civil service pension you're all talking about? Some reward eh?

£10k? how much do you think a private sector worker will get? they'll probably need a couple hundred grand tucked away for that sort of pension, and it wont be guaranteed by the governement either. and lets note, thats £10k index linked (earning link no right) for doing nothing for potentially another 30 years. how much do you think you need to live on, if you cut out the costs of living in youth and middle age (no travel costs, no mortgage, rent might be a bugger though). get some perspective, look at it in relation and context.

Excluding the very highest earners, the average civil service pension is £4,200a year. More than 100,000 people receive a civil service pension of £2,000 or less a year: over 40,000 receive less than £1,000, and more than 60,000 get between £1,000 and £2,000.

...

So as I said previously, please don't spew out the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun headlines before sorting the facts from the myths!

i dont spew forth the tabloid angle, i hear it from the inside, from HR in a public sector organisation. please dont spew out the figures from a union with an agenda that is deliberatly twisting the numbers to suit. temp workers will be getting a few hundred pounds pension, bring those average numbers down. compare to a similar private sector for perspective, you think McDonalds pays *any* pension? "excluding the very highest earners"... whats that then? 100k? 50k? 30k?

i dont think people in the public sector realise what they have. many in the private sector have NO pension at all, many more only what they save themselves. i wonder where the impression of gold plated pensions comes from eh? its the trade off for not getting paid so much, you get looked after far better by the state down the line.

 

[Dandyman]

whats that got to do with? the pay is a seperate issue, if you feel so underpaid why have you not moved to a btter pay role?



£10k? how much do you think a private sector worker will get? they'll probably need a couple hundred grand tucked away for that sort of pension, and it wont be guaranteed by the governement either. and lets note, thats £10k index linked (earning link no right) for doing nothing for potentially another 30 years. how much do you think you need to live on, if you cut out the costs of living in youth and middle age (no travel costs, no mortgage, rent might be a bugger though). get some perspective, look at it in relation and context.



i dont spew forth the tabloid angle, i hear it from the inside, from HR in a public sector organisation. please dont spew out the figures from a union with an agenda that is deliberatly twisting the numbers to suit. temp workers will be getting a few hundred pounds pension, bring those average numbers down. compare to a similar private sector for perspective, you think McDonalds pays *any* pension? "excluding the very highest earners"... whats that then? 100k? 50k? 30k?

i dont think people in the public sector realise what they have. many in the private sector have NO pension at all, many more only what they save themselves. i wonder where the impression of gold plated pensions comes from eh? its the trade off for not getting paid so much, you get looked after far better by the state down the line.

So, you're advocating a race to the bottom then ? Everyone deserves to lives in poverty in old age and the taxpayer pays out benefits to subside previous employers ?

Out of interest are you a Lib Dem voter/activist ? Your posts used to be fairly liberal but seem to have got progressively more right-wing since the Election.

 

[beorhthelm]

So, you're advocating a race to the bottom then ? Everyone deserves to lives in poverty in old age and the taxpayer pays out benefits to subside previous employers ?

im not advocating any race. im highlighting that the so called myths are in fact rooted in real world evaluation. they might not look great to those on the inside, but compared to people outside in private sector, public sector pensions are pretty plum. It would be wonderfull if we all had final salary pensions, but the problem is someone has to pay. and in the case of public sector, that someone is the tax payer, many of whom ironically do not save or contribute towards a pension of their own beyond the state pension. the whole current concept of pensions is flawed anyway, based on the idea we'd see out our old age when that was 5-10years (for those that got to retirement). 30 years of pension following 40 years employment doesnt really add up, but no one really has the balls to grasp that nettle.

and i wont rise to insults like "Lib-Dem activist".

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

My wife's BT pension is index linked but she didn't get any increase this year as they work out the pension increase from the previous September RPI figure which was minus 1.4%. The scheme rules have been amended because they used to increase it by the RPI figure or 2.5% whichever was the greater.

 

[SICKASAGULL]

Over the years I have known and worked with a number of people who were at some time employed in the public sector and i was interested to learn their opinions should I lose my job.The following items cropped up regularly.
1.Amazement as to the numbers of staff employed compared to the private sector and the amount of regular non-attendance due to `Sickness` attempts to correct the situation were foiled by union activity.
Heads of sections could increase their grade by adding staff so unfortunately there is plenty of dead wood to be prunned, hard on those that lose out but we have to pay for the huge debts the country owes and cuts are being made at all levels.

 

[Weatherman]

Cornholio,not me on the Postmen. Look i don't want anyone to lost their job,however just look where and what on Taxpayers money is wasted. Wasted 'bigtime' How often do you see a Pelican crossing 'patrolled' at school time by a Lollypop man ? Those crossings cost the best part of £100K EACH and the have CCTV. Yet we pay someone to 'patrol it' You can see it all around you.

Judging by the general standard of spelling and grammar seen on this and other forums, the entire teaching staff should be laid off as the enormous expense just isn't worth it.

 

[Skintagain 1983]

No-one has mentioned strikes yet.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

i dont think people in the public sector realise what they have. many in the private sector have NO pension at all, many more only what they save themselves. i wonder where the impression of gold plated pensions comes from eh? its the trade off for not getting paid so much, you get looked after far better by the state down the line.

Well why don't they form a Union then if they're so peed off about it ?

 

[sten_super]

Well why don't they form a Union then if they're so peed off about it ?

Because I don't feel a state of entitlement about it. I am only entitled to what I earn; it is then up to me whether I save it or spend it. I don't know anyone in the private sector that has a decent employer pension scheme, we all have private pensions. I do work, and my employer pays me for it. Why should I also expect them to give me money for my retirement as well?

 

[Dandyman]

Because I don't feel a state of entitlement about it. I am only entitled to what I earn; it is then up to me whether I save it or spend it. I don't know anyone in the private sector that has a decent employer pension scheme, we all have private pensions. I do work, and my employer pays me for it. Why should I also expect them to give me money for my retirement as well?

Pensions are deferred wages to which a contribution is made - which in my case involves a significant percentage of my monthly wage. It's not a free gift from my employer.

 

[sten_super]

Pensions are deferred wages to which a contribution is made - which in my case involves a significant percentage of my monthly wage. It's not a free gift from my employer.

I appreciate that. I was outlining why I, as a worker in the private sector, am perfectly happy not having the same pension provisions as the public sector. I would rather have the money in my pocket and be able to then make the decision as to whether to save it or not (which I do, into my private pension), than have the state decide that I really ought to be saving for retirement. The problem, of course, is the uneven nature of the incentives; in an ideal world, we'd all be paid our worth, and have exactly the same incentives to either spend it or save it in a pension.

 

[Brighton TID]

People should decide on the level of public services they require.

Do they require pot holes to be filled in straight away? Do they require the roads to be gritted when it snows twice a year? Do they require their bin to be emptied once a week or can they go to once a month? Do they require their medical problems to be attended promptly by the NHS or are they happy to be put on a waiting list? Do they want their rivers and environment to remain clean? Do they want the police to turn up promptly after dialling 999 in an emergency?

The bottom line is that all of these things cost money. Public money. Your money. You can talk all you want about making efficiency savings etc but the bottom line is that these services come at a cost. The people must decide on what they actual need to make their lives comfortable/enjoyable not just moan when services are cut.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

No-one has mentioned strikes yet.

strikes.

 

[Skintagain 1983]

strikes.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Pensions are deferred wages to which a contribution is made - which in my case involves a significant percentage of my monthly wage. It's not a free gift from my employer.

As do I.

One of the issues I have with all of this "public sector/Private sector" is that the propoganda thrown out by the Government, through the press and media is that somehow the poorest and weakest in society have to suffer cutbacks in services, benefits etc because the financial sector almost brought the country to a state of bancruptcy. Even yesterday, when we are all told its going to be be tough and VAT is going to rise etc, the Chief Exec of a shite railway system is awarded a 100% bonus of his salary ( and they have cut it back!!!) How is that fair in this society?

we all know the public sector has grown, but the reason is that the main industries of our nation, Ship Building, Steel Plants, railways, mining, ie heavy industry has gone for good and the Government has had to start up schemes to employ these people. Its all very well telling people to go out and get a job, but if the government freezes recruitment, the only places left are the Supermarkets - that is a growth area, BUT where is the money going to come from to allow people to shop. This is how we got into this mess before....people borrowing to finance a lifestyle that is unsustainable.

 

[Skintagain 1983]

Here are a number of proposals which I believe would lead to a fairer and more effi cient tax system.

Tax dodging which costs the UK economy £100 billion per year and costs developing countries £250 billion.

• Multinational companies and rich individuals should pay their proper fair share of taxes
• Make tax avoidance illegal
• Change the tax allowance system – tax relief on pensions for those earning over £100,000 costs us £10 billion a year.
• Put resources into tackling tax evasion (HMRC staff collect on average £600,000 each in tax every year).
• Properly resource HM Revenue & Customs – HMRC is cutting 25,000 jobs and closing over 200 office and has had to write off £11 billion in uncollected revenue due to lack of resources
• Introduce a “transaction” or “tobin” tax on financial transactions in the City and abolish tax havens.

The tax gap is the difference between the amount of revenue that should have, in theory, been collected if all taxpayers paid their correct amount of tax and the total actually received. Reducing the tax gap would mean the new government could avoid having to make swingeing cuts in public services.

The proposed ‘Robin Hood Tax’ on financial speculation could also raise $400 billion globally.
Stopping the replacement of Trident nuclear weapons would save £78 billion over 30 years.
Millions could be saved on getting rid of consultants and from the waste of holding 230 separate pay negotiations in the civil and public services.
Millions more could be saved from putting an end to privatisation and PFI.

Food for thought?

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

Pensions are deferred wages to which a contribution is made - which in my case involves a significant percentage of my monthly wage. It's not a free gift from my employer.

Maybe not but the contribution from your employer is. And that contribution - probably into a final salary scheme - guarantees you a significantly higher pension than someone in the private sector with a defined contribution scheme.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Here are a number of proposals which I believe would lead to a fairer and more effi cient tax system.

Tax dodging which costs the UK economy £100 billion per year and costs developing countries £250 billion.

• Multinational companies and rich individuals should pay their proper fair share of taxes
• Make tax avoidance illegal
• Change the tax allowance system – tax relief on pensions for those earning over £100,000 costs us £10 billion a year.
• Put resources into tackling tax evasion (HMRC staff collect on average £600,000 each in tax every year).
• Properly resource HM Revenue & Customs – HMRC is cutting 25,000 jobs and closing over 200 office and has had to write off £11 billion in uncollected revenue due to lack of resources
• Introduce a “transaction” or “tobin” tax on financial transactions in the City and abolish tax havens.

The tax gap is the difference between the amount of revenue that should have, in theory, been collected if all taxpayers paid their correct amount of tax and the total actually received. Reducing the tax gap would mean the new government could avoid having to make swingeing cuts in public services.

The proposed ‘Robin Hood Tax’ on financial speculation could also raise $400 billion globally.
Stopping the replacement of Trident nuclear weapons would save £78 billion over 30 years.
Millions could be saved on getting rid of consultants and from the waste of holding 230 separate pay negotiations in the civil and public services.
Millions more could be saved from putting an end to privatisation and PFI.

Food for thought?

ill vote for you!!!!!

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Well I heard yesterday that the Queens post is still delivered in a horse and cart and by a bloke in full livery! EVERYDAY. Horse and cart!

When the queens horses go on holiday, the buck house flunkies go as well yet there are flunkies at the location that look after the horses so the buck house flunkies get a free holiday (the flunkies not the horses).

Source *works at Buckhouse shovelling horse sh1t* basically. His words.

Cuts can and should be made and Im a royalist.