The price for 'personal freedom' at football

[Simster]

Why do people respond to this dribble? NMH is becoming more and more like HB&B, just posting nonsense for the sake of it and revelling in the 'attention'. If people didn't bite he may not post this shite.

I think you'll find he's always been an absolute retard, to be honest.

I think the most astonishing thing regarding this thread is that more than half a dozen people actually took one look at his post, saw that it was more than a paragraph long and still bothered to read it. You'd have thought that most people would realise that anything more than 2 sentences long *and* posted by NMH is NEVER worth reading.

Maybe simpletons like NMH are the price for "personal freedom" on internet message boards.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I'll take this report with a pinch of salt and run the risk of being called a twat by NMH. He's called everyone else that disagrees with him that at some time, I'm sure.

Not quite true.
He never called his mate Zoo B Zoo a twat. But then again, maybe that is because "Zoo B zoo" turned out to be another account created by NMH so he could carry on debating stewarding issues with himself, long after everybody else had got bored.

Wierd.

 

[matt]

Okay so it's wonderful to have personal choices and complete freedom.....[/SIZE]

You should hook up with that naus from Southampton and bore the living shit out of each other (via PM ideally).

 

[Perkino]

The problem is that not all supporters can stand for 90 minutes but that doesn't excuse the FA for treating fans like sheep.

The law also doesn't help as it is unlawful for anybody to be in site of a football match whilst consuming alcohol whereas at Twickenham Eng vs Scot can play rugby and all the fans be consuming all afternoon...

The club are ultimately in charge as to how much of the stadium is an all seater, Brentford have an away end without an seats so it's all standing. I think we should have standing in the Northstand and Weststandupper and those who don't wanna stand have to sit somewhere else

Now about this alcohol thing...

 

[brunswick]

Sweden has issues....ever been there? its like robot land.......and the suppressed stuff needs to come out.

not a football problem, but a gasket for those poor souls who live there.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

The problem is that not all supporters can stand for 90 minutes but that doesn't excuse the FA for treating fans like sheep.

The law also doesn't help as it is unlawful for anybody to be in site of a football match whilst consuming alcohol whereas at Twickenham Eng vs Scot can play rugby and all the fans be consuming all afternoon...

The club are ultimately in charge as to how much of the stadium is an all seater, Brentford have an away end without an seats so it's all standing. I think we should have standing in the Northstand and Weststandupper and those who don't wanna stand have to sit somewhere else

Now about this alcohol thing...

Incorrect, I believe. Championship and Premiership teams have to have all seater stadia. I'm not so hung up on the alcohol ban. You can drink in the bar at halftime. It's not such a hardship.

 

[Simster]

Sweden has issues....ever been there? its like robot land.......and the suppressed stuff needs to come out.

not a football problem, but a gasket for those poor souls who live there.

There has got to be an element of truth to this. I know they have dark winters, but why does Sweden have such a high suicide rate, when this isn't a problem in other northern, even Scandinavian countries?

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

There has got to be an element of truth to this. I know they have dark winters, but why does Sweden have such a high suicide rate, when this isn't a problem in other northern, even Scandinavian countries?

They don't necessarily. The suicide rates depend on the individual country's attitude towards reporting it. Some countries are quite open about it whereas, say, in Britain coroners will use any doubt, however tenuous to return an open verdict. I agree that Sweden is an incredibly suppressed country though with a much lower tolerance of non-conformity.

 

[NMH]

This is all well and good, NMH, but what point are you trying to make? That if you and your steward chums at Withdean weren't as over-zealous as you are then we would be witnessing this kind of thing there?

The problems you are talking about in Sweden clearly run a lot deeper than just a football match. Same as they did here in the 70's and 80's. To suggest that we would see this kind of thing regularly in the UK if people were allowed to stand and create and atmosphere is just ridiculous.

I could go to a game in Eastern Europe, Central America or Africa and witness serious crowd trouble, and then come on here and say it is because people are allowed to stand and create an atmosphere. Or I could go to plenty of other places e.g. Spain, Germany etc and say people were allowed to stand and it was a cracking atmosphere and there was no trouble. It doesn't make it in any way relevant to Brighton & Hove Albion, and just proves once again that people like you should not be stewarding at football matches in this country.

I'm sorry your reading glasses got broken, I do hope you managed to get them mended?

Read the fine print? Not a pointed point being made - it's an account. Nothing to do with 'my steward chums at Withdean' - it's all to do with my steward chums in Sweden!
Told you not to read between the lines - I didn't 'suggest', other than it's as mental as the stuff we experienced way back when. You are right about the problems in Sweden running deeper - they refuse to have their personal freedoms encroached upon by identifying who is buying a ticket, and being allowed to enter the stadium off their heads.

Read the fine print, and please DO take it personally




p.s. Gasses will be replaced and billed to our company's insurance. I'll get a decent pair, thanks for your concern.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Read the fine print? Not a pointed point being made - it's an account. Nothing to do with 'my steward chums at Withdean' - it's all to do with my steward chums in Sweden!
Told you not to read between the lines - I didn't 'suggest', other than it's as mental as the stuff we experienced way back when. You are right about the problems in Sweden running deeper - they refuse to have their personal freedoms encroached upon by identifying who is buying a ticket, and being allowed to enter the stadium off their heads.

Read the fine print, and please DO take it personally




p.s. Gasses will be replaced and billed to our company's insurance. I'll get a decent pair, thanks for your concern.

Oooooooooooooooh you're so disingenuous.

 

[NMH]

The title is a misnomer too. If I were going to let off fires and fireworks, assault police and the like I wouldn't want cameras there either but the vast majority of fans in the UK just want to stand as it helps create a better atmosphere. This does not equate to a desire to be anti-social and the violence allegedly witnessed by NMH is not the price for allowing fans to stand. It seems that, as others have said, problems in Swedish football run a lot deeper than just getting everyone to sit down to fix the problem.

This report isn't "just" by an eye-witness either. It's by a bitter misanthrope who was stewarding the game (apparently ineffectually) with a very dim view of fans and how to deal with them. He even claims the game was a fix. I'll take this report with a pinch of salt and run the risk of being called a twat by NMH. He's called everyone else that disagrees with him that at some time, I'm sure.

Well done, you can join Commander in taking the fine print personally.
Swedes are special in demanding personal freedom beyond the Germans (and I have lived in Germany).
However - I would suspect that they are not a completely different race of human to most others - culturally they are an odd lot but I believe that most others would be with similar conditions. Their focus on equality, freedom, and rights sets them a problem in itself, simply by not having an altogether drawn-up way of policing their society when things suit one person/group but not another. The AIK fans complained vehemently, that they had been singled out - despite all the problem coming from their fans. Forget that we were also protective
of them had anything come from the opposing side of the ground. They demand equality beyond reason!

 

[NMH]

I think you'll find he's always been an absolute retard, to be honest.

I think the most astonishing thing regarding this thread is that more than half a dozen people actually took one look at his post, saw that it was more than a paragraph long and still bothered to read it. You'd have thought that most people would realise that anything more than 2 sentences long *and* posted by NMH is NEVER worth reading.

Maybe simpletons like NMH are the price for "personal freedom" on internet message boards.

Hey simple-stirrer Simpster, looks like you 'bit' then doesn't it?

This is not 'fantasy', just the account from an eyewitness (happily still with 2 eyes). Reading between the lines of the above not required. Some details such as times, are approximate. Anyone refuting the above just because I reported it, is just a twat.

There's never any 'irrelevant thread' from you though is there? EVERY thread that isn't to do with The Albion is irrelevant by your measure. Got a log in your eye from looking for another's splinter, as usual.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

Well done, you can join Commander in taking the fine print personally.
Swedes are special in demanding personal freedom beyond the Germans (and I have lived in Germany).
However - I would suspect that they are not a completely different race of human to most others - culturally they are an odd lot but I believe that most others would be with similar conditions. Their focus on equality, freedom, and rights sets them a problem in itself, simply by not having an altogether drawn-up way of policing their society when things suit one person/group but not another. The AIK fans complained vehemently, that they had been singled out - despite all the problem coming from their fans. Forget that we were also protective
of them had anything come from the opposing side of the ground. They demand equality beyond reason!

They are less libertarian in their attitudes to personal freedom than the Swiss and Dutch who take personal freedoms to a completely different level. I fail to see what fine print you refer to nor do I take it personally. You made a post - you claimed you were "just" an eye witness whereas in truth you're a steward at the game with a rather aggressive attitude towards policing of all football games regardless of the profile/country/league and the consequences of not doing so. I don't think I'm reading between any lines there.

By the way - it's logically impossible to demand equality beyond reason.

 

[NMH]

Sweden has issues....ever been there? its like robot land.......and the suppressed stuff needs to come out.

not a football problem, but a gasket for those poor souls who live there.

Yes, this is apparently a 'bit of the problem' here.
The repression could be why Swedish women have a certain renown when going abroad. There is a suppression despite all the apparent freedom. In the City, it is at its' worst... or most obvious perhaps.

That they choose mass situations like an Ice Hockey or football game to let their emotions get the better of them could be worsened by alcohol - but I hesitate to see that as the excuse.
I've found Italians are awful in crowd situations too, and can be tipped over the edge very quickly. They're also famed for the flares, drink and mayhem! I didn't see suppression in their society though - can anyone attest for how Italian culture affects or causes this behavior?

 

[ATFC Seagull]

and here we see some bordeaux fans standing in a seated area of their home ground. yet, what is this? i see nothing been thrown or games being abandoned? surely not given nmh's testimony of such a situation leading to the ultimate carnage

The best thing about that ground is the spiked moat around the outside of the pitch. Paul Samrah wouldn't have to scream to stop a pitch invasion if they got promoted.

 

[NMH]

They don't necessarily. The suicide rates depend on the individual country's attitude towards reporting it. Some countries are quite open about it whereas, say, in Britain coroners will use any doubt, however tenuous to return an open verdict. I agree that Sweden is an incredibly suppressed country though with a much lower tolerance of non-conformity.

Thanks for actually contributing - everything I post is not cynical or coming from a myopic stewarding stance despite what you say, or Ponce Buzzer and Simpstirrer and Commanders will try to overwork. The people who want to watch a fair game of football between two sides will agree that it wasn't a great day they spent good money on attending with kids and girlfriends etc. They left disgruntled and having been cheated for their time and effort as well. I got paid regardless - they lost out.

It's an example of one man's freedom screwing it for another's - and the open-ness or lack of rules allows it to continue! Frustrating don't you think?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Okay so it's wonderful to have personal choices and complete freedom.

So what about football crowds?

First match of the season in Stockholm for Djurgårdens IF was a derby vs AIK; flares, a fire in the home stand (quickly extinguished by a steward), flags and streamers and all kinds of paper to wade through, beer everywhere and drunk fans carrying in trayloads more, everyone HAS to stand, and they don't compete for height because everyone stood on the plastic seats (many are cracked as a result, and don't get fixed), flares in the stands with smoke a constant, stoppages of play if one lands on the pitch. Parents mostly do not bring their kids.
Flagpoles and 'stuff' was flaying from one stand into another over a fence, at one point, loads of youths swarm to that area.
Old bill are everywhere inside and out, horses and vans and helicopters outside and riot gear, everyone running and some fighting after the game.

The match itself was a fix if ever I saw one. Every possibility of a scoring chance saw the ball hit languidly wide, way over the bar, or crossed to the keeper's arms. The players did not look too bothered - and like it was an enactment of a game just to appease all in attendance (threats of punishment have hung over both clubs, closed-door games narrowly avoided at end of previous season).

That was a few weeks back.

Yesterday I was at Sodertalje for Syrianska v AIK - Syrians scored about 15-20 minutes in, then shortly afterwards an AIK player got red carded. A couple of flares burned the astroturf (must be expensive I'd have thought), bomb-like fireworks going off all over - one hits a linesman and he's taken to hospital with hearing damage. Aggression from the AIK stands sets off the Syrians (many fans are, of course, Syrian) and fireworks go off everywhere with mayhem there too. Armed (riot sticks) security all over the show in the main home stand.

Players and officials have left the field already.

AIK get a line of stewards, for which some complain they have been unfairly selected. I got hit by a coin which broke my reading glasses - could have hit me in the eye. Game called off altogether, so loads of decently-behaved (mostly the home support) people, including girls, kids and families paid for about 15 minutes of football and 25 mins watching mayhem and flares.
Outside there were the obligatory running battles with police and horses.
A probable fine for AIK and maybe Syrians, a likelihood of a point deduction (6 points mentioned, though they haven't even accumulated 6 yet).

The Syrians and AIK didn't even have a proper rivalry compared to theirs with Hammarby, and Djurgårdens in Stockholm. Sodertalje is about 30 miles South from the City.

Basically, Swedish fans don't have to provide any info on buying tickets, are allowed to arrive drunk and drink more inside the stadium, don't want any cameras or affect on their personal freedom, and see stewarding and policing as another infringement of that.

The football is becoming ever more crap, kids and families don't want to attend, fans have less chance of seeing the match, and the game is grinding to a horrible screeching halt.

But still, they get to stand and there's definitely an atmosphere.



This is not 'fantasy', just the account from an eyewitness (happily still with 2 eyes). Reading between the lines of the above not required. Some details such as times, are approximate. Anyone refuting the above just because I reported it, is just a twat.

Sounds quality

 

[NMH]

Sounds quality

Or not!
There are your Das Reichs who will have you believe it's a good ruck - they'd love to see things 'kicking off', apparently

 

[The Cardinal]

Surely the only sensible answer is for all STH to agree to be micro-chipped after agreeing to submit a full questionnaire for the scrutiny of the Chief Steward. What could possibly be wrong with that ?

 

[NMH]

Surely the only sensible answer is for all STH to agree to be micro-chipped after agreeing to submit a full questionnaire for the scrutiny of the Chief Steward. What could possibly be wrong with that ?

The way the Swedes are, would be for them around-about the equivalent ask.

This season at Withdean, was tried-out the next step in ticketing - which is the electronic chip card-reader.
You could almost see that as a similar thing to being micro-chipped. Photo-id cards have been used for decades in the USA (where crime is still as bad as ever, incidentally). In Sweden there is the 'personal number' id card (I have one) through which they track people for tax-paying as well. 'Big Brother' sensibilities exist anyway and it's already acceptable.