The NHS really is something to be proud of.

[dingodan]

Many of your newspaper quotations refer to patients being, or wishing to be, treated with Avastin (Bevacizumab).
1) Do you think that the NHS should pay for drugs to be used in patients where the drug isn't licenced to treat their particular indication? Using the "Lindfield Architect" example, some might view an IV injection of Avastin into the eye as a piece of quackery.
2) The pharmaceutical industry is highly innovative and competative producing high quality and, if it wants to, low cost products. So, despite seeming to meet your criteria, why is the cost of Avastin That Roche/Genetech charges the NHS so high?

Not it is not. It is a cartel commonly referred to as Big Pharma. It is not capitalism, it is corporatism.

And to answer your 1st question I dont think the NHS (or government bureaucrats) should make life or death decisions for you or your family.

 

[DTES]

With innovation and competition the price goes down. Like with mobiles and computers now costing next to nothing.

People would have to be responsible and save money for their family to cover the cost of the family's medical care,

What an arrogant assumption, that everyone in this country can save. For this alone you should be ashamed.

 

[The Large One]

24hrs ago Jnr Stat came off some monkey bars and smashed his arm.

Within minutes, less than 5, an ambulance was on the scene.
He was tended to brilliantly by the fellas there.
Off to and straight through hospital A&E, x-ray, specialist.

Within 4 hours he's being operated on, for 4 hours , through till midnight.

Obs done all night, then back home 24hrs after the ambulance was called.

I very rarely moan about the NHS, but probably have.
Then something like this happens and you realise just how bloody proud of it we should be, instead of kicking it around like a political football.

Notwithstanding Dingodan quite spitefully and arrogantly kicking this around like a political football - here's to wishing a speedy recovery for your lad.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Not it is not. It is a cartel commonly referred to as Big Pharma. It is not capitalism, it is corporatism.

And to answer your 1st question I dont think the NHS (or government bureaucrats) should make life or death decisions for you or your family.

Is it not the case though, that in the US, doctors are regularly making decisions as to what drugs to prescribe to people based on how much the pharmaceutical companies are paying them to promote them?

And if their system is so effective, why does the US have one of the lowest life expectancies of any major Western country? A study on it was published only this week. The answer lies somewhere between the prevalence towards obesity and the fact that vast swathes of the American population cannot afford the sort of healthcare provisions you suggest are (or should be) the norm.

All I know is this: if- God forbid- I should ever find myself unconscious and at death's door following some catastrophic incident, the last thing I want the doctor treating me to be thinking about is whether I can afford the procedures he's about to carry out. I'd rather he just did what he's trained to do and cracked on with saving my butt, to be honest.

 

[dingodan]

Pharmaceutical companies are often not in direct competition; patents exist which give companies exclusive rights to produce drugs for a time after their creation (to encourage R&D); what you are talking about is changing from the current system, where one large client, the NHS, is able to negotiate a price based on demand of thousands or millions of units, to individuals buying direct from the companies. That is likely to see prices rise, not fall.

I never said people should buy direct from pharmaceutical companies. I am saying there should not be a government monopoly in healthcare. Monopolies always bring increased prices and decreased quality, even if that monopoly was formed with the greatest intentions.

People would have to be 'responsible'?! Tell me this isn't what you really think. How can you responsibly save hundreds of thousands of pounds, which is what it would cost if a loved one got a serious illness which required heavy and extended medication/treatment?

I dont think people are very responsible today, and I think it is because they have gotten used to the idea that the government will take care of them from cradle to grave. I do think people should be more responsible. And healthcare only costs what it does today, because we have government healthcare, in a closed system. No competition no innovation, increased prices and decreased service quality. The market is what moves prices down and quality up and by the market all I really mean is your and my economic freedom.

In my student days I was fairly right wing, to the point of even agreeing with your viewpoint on the provision of medical care. However now I've mellowed rather, and you appreciate the wonder of the NHS; free treatment for all urgent requirements. The system isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than the US system, which is the closest to the 'free' market you'll find in the developed world.

Thanks for making me rightwing now

You are quite right, when we are getting something from it, it seems pretty swell.

 

[DTES]

And if their system is so effective, why does the US have one of the lowest life expectancies of any major Western country? A study on it was published only this week. The answer lies somewhere between the prevalence towards obesity and the fact that vast swathes of the American population cannot afford the sort of healthcare provisions you suggest are (or should be) the norm.

Just to back that up a little more - 45,000 people die every year in the US due to not having access to healthcare.

 

[mistahclarke]

I agree in that circumstance you should be proud and is a bloody good service.

Sadly I've never experienced that. In the Sussex a few years ago I waited all night for an x-ray only to be told a few hours after that there was no doctor to actually look at it so wasted a night for nothing. In London I sat with a heavily bleeding head wound for about 9 hours just to be initially seen. Mind you I walked in both times, so not sure if that has a difference?

 

[Cornish seagull!]

Hope stat jnr is doing ok. The NHS has its ups and downs but its free and god knows what i would do if i had to pay for my treatment. I doubt ill be here now writing this tbh.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I agree in that circumstance you should be proud and is a bloody good service.

Sadly I've never experienced that. In the Sussex a few years ago I waited all night for an x-ray only to be told a few hours after that there was no doctor to actually look at it so wasted a night for nothing. In London I sat with a heavily bleeding head wound for about 9 hours just to be initially seen. Mind you I walked in both times, so not sure if that has a difference?

I suppose you have to weigh up whether you'd rather pay for it and be seen straight away, or expect it all free and accept that, particularly at peak times, there will always be a wait, and that the triage process means others will frequently jump the queue due to having more serious conditions.

 

[dingodan]

What an arrogant assumption, that everyone in this country can save. For this alone you should be ashamed.

You cant save anything?

We have been conditioned to think that wealth comes from credit. It comes from savings.

 

[DTES]

I dont think people are very responsible today, and I think it is because they have gotten used to the idea that the government will take care of them from cradle to grave. I do think people should be more responsible. And healthcare only costs what it does today, because we have government healthcare, in a closed system. No competition no innovation, increased prices and decreased service quality. The market is what moves prices down and quality up and by the market all I really mean is your and my economic freedom.

Wow. Talk about missing the entire point. How does your system work for someone who is forced to quit work at a young age by a life-long debilitating illness? They just die, right? But that's their fault for not saving enough money to live off of for the rest of their life by the time they turn 20?

 

[DTES]

You cant save anything?

We have been conditioned to think that wealth comes from credit. It comes from savings.

FFS. You're on another planet.

Yes, I can save. I do save. But you are suggesting that everyone (not most, not an overwhelming majority, but everyone) in this country earns enough that they can save? I suggest you go and have a look at the world we live in.

 

[dingodan]

Is it not the case though, that in the US, doctors are regularly making decisions as to what drugs to prescribe to people based on how much the pharmaceutical companies are paying them to promote them?

And if their system is so effective, why does the US have one of the lowest life expectancies of any major Western country? A study on it was published only this week. The answer lies somewhere between the prevalence towards obesity and the fact that vast swathes of the American population cannot afford the sort of healthcare provisions you suggest are (or should be) the norm.

All I know is this: if- God forbid- I should ever find myself unconscious and at death's door following some catastrophic incident, the last thing I want the doctor treating me to be thinking about is whether I can afford the procedures he's about to carry out. I'd rather he just did what he's trained to do and cracked on with saving my butt, to be honest.

In a free market your doc who is too friendly with his pharma buddies would lose business because he does not provide a good service.

And I never said I like the US healthcare system, I dont. the US does not have a free market in anything. Certainly not healthcare. I dont like the NHS and I dont like the US system, I think we should try legalising freedom. Thats all.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I was going to say what happened to my daughter at Princess Royal Hospital Haywards Heath today but I am so incandescent that I'm going to have a nice cup of tea instead. And then we're going to crucify the sods.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Americans are supposed to have health insurance to cover the cost of any treatment they might need. Fine, if you fall off your bike and need a few stitches, perhaps.

But get diagnosed with cancer or another life-threatening condition and be prepared to face all sorts of intrusive questions about whether it might have been a pre-existing condition. Or face the prospect of never being able to get insurance for a reasonable price again (if at all) because you've previously had a serious illness. Insurance companies are notorious for trying to avoid paying out, we all know that. Many people used to get coverage via their employer, but that's being squeezed in the economic climate. How much anxiety would it add to your life at a terrible time if you weren't sure whether you'd be able to get any treatment?

 

[Cornish seagull!]

In a free market your doc who is too friendly with his pharma buddies would lose business because he does not provide a good service.

And I never said I like the US healthcare system, I dont. the US does not have a free market in anything. Certainly not healthcare. I dont like the NHS and I dont like the US system, I think we should try legalising freedom. Thats all.

Im a pretty laid back person, BUT i want you to know i think your being a

 

[Stat Brother]

I was going to say what happened to my daughter at Princess Royal Hospital Haywards Heath today but I am so incandescent that I'm going to have a nice cup of tea instead. And then we're going to crucify the sods.

explain?

 

[mistahclarke]

I suppose you have to weigh up whether you'd rather pay for it and be seen straight away, or expect it all free and accept that, particularly at peak times, there will always be a wait, and that the triage process means others will frequently jump the queue due to having more serious conditions.

Very true. I get corporate healthcare these days so I would rather it stayed free for the masses personally.

The NHS is still the envy of the world, even with it's fault.

 

[dingodan]

Wow. Talk about missing the entire point. How does your system work for someone who is forced to quit work at a young age by a life-long debilitating illness? They just die, right? But that's their fault for not saving enough money to live off of for the rest of their life by the time they turn 20?

That is a really sad example. "They just die, right"? I have never said anything aggressive or nasty to you. Why do u choose to see me as a compassionless monster? You clearly have prejudices about what I am saying. But check urself please.

I believe that that young person would be taken care of by family, community and charity. I expect we don't share the same faith in freedom though.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Don't get me wrong: I don't see why the NHS should cover everything. For example, it winds me right up when the chronically obese (the ones who are fat because of their appalling diet and total absence of exercise) demand that the state should fund a vastly expensive and extremely risky gastric bypass or stomach stapling (the best ones are the ones who actually TRY to put even more weight on so they can reach the threshold for this procedure).

But by and large (no pun intended) the NHS does exactly what it says on the tin. Just a bit slower than on the cooking instructions.