The Goal That Never Was

[Wilts]

The most annoying thing to me is the phrase "what goes around comes around" and that we'll get a decision in our favour sometime that will apparently make up for it. Absolute arse...

In the meantime we have to accept that it is all done and dusted and the injustice (IMO) remains. A decision three or four years down the line is no use to me.

 

[trueblue]

I don't think that should be a foul but, sadly, it's the type of thing referees are always likely to blow for.

The goalkeeper drops a complete ricket and the ref instantly assumes he MUST have been impeded and gives him the benefit of the doubt.

I can even think of an Albion parallel - Gary Hart's last minute 'goal' at Reading a few seasons back. The keeper flapped, but because Junior Lewis had jumped with his arm up, it was disallowed.

So, gutted - but not surprised. And let's face it, after being gifted a goal in the first few minutes, a team worthy of being Euro champions should be good enough to win the game without any controversy.

 

[London Irish]

It was a clear foul. That this issue is even being discussed this many days after the event shows just how detached from reality many England fans are. Show me any other country that has made a big fuss about this Meier decision. You won't be able to, because he applied the UEFA regulations and prevalent intpretations of that law correctly. Lord Bracknell is splitting hairs here, he may have indicated a push, was he meant to simulate a shoulder and hand obstruction? What does that look like? It's the same thing!

JEEZUS, get over it! I follow rugby and you've just had a referee blamed for England's 2nd test defeat by New Zealand last Saturday by the England rugby manager and knight of the realm. At least Sven didn't stoop to that level.

England fans have got to get a grip, this constant whingeing about match officials in whatever code is doing England's international reputation no good whatsoever!

Suck it up and look to the future! There's a world cup in Germany in two years' time, England have a young enough team to make an impact if there are no key injuries - that's the real lesson that should be drawn from this Euro 2004 campaign.

 

[Icy Gull]

How can it be a clear foul when the keeper is trying to jump into space already occupied by two opposition players? Where do the rules state that the goalkeeper is being fouled when he is jumping AT the opposition? If there is such a rule it is should be changed imo.

Your Irish bias is somewhat obvious in all your comments on this thread, which is a shame as you usually talk sense.

JEEZUS, get over it! I follow rugby and you've just had a referee blamed for England's 2nd test defeat by New Zealand last Saturday by the England rugby manager and knight of the realm. B]

What is wrong with what Woodward said? As a rugby fan I am suprised that you can't sympathise with Woodward's point. Except of course you are Irish and your chances of beating the All Blacks away are non existent ,so why would you ? A little bit of schadenfreude eh?

Under the circumstances Woodward was quite restrained:


I have watched it a couple of times and he has hardly touched him," Woodward said. "I don't think it was even a yellow card offence.

"We are disappointed with the decision. I think the touch judge reacted a bit quickly with the crowd going nuts.

"Unless he was absolutely sure it was a huge call and it ruined the game."

Woodward defended Shaw and vowed to fight the decision at a disciplinary tribunal, likely to be held on Sunday.

"Everyone back home knows Simon is not a dirty player - he was clumsy, no more than that," Woodward added.

"Their guy killed the ball and I think Simon was just making him aware he shouldn't be there.

"Simon is gutted, shattered by it, and it is clear he doesn't agree with the decision.

"What really sticks in the throat is that last year (in Wellington) Josh Lewsey was stamped on and the guy (Ali Williams) didn't even get a yellow card or a ban by his union."

Woodward praised his side's bravery after Shaw's dismissal left them playing with 14 men for 70 minutes.

"I am extremely proud of the guys," he added. "They really stuck in there and it was a huge effort. Lawrence Dallaglio was just outstanding and led by example.

 

[Wardy]

I think the main problem these days with refs in the inconsitancy. The bloke who refed the Sweden vs Holland game last night, all though following UEFA rules, killed the game imo. He was blowing everytime someone was touched. A couple of times he even stopped the teams playing advantage or quick free kicks to ensure the ball was played from the exact place the foul was comitted. A different ref last night would have blown a lot less and the result would have been a more flowing more entertaining game.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

It doesn't look quite such a blatant goal from where I'm sitting now. Terry's arm comes across the goalie preventing him from jumping up to try and claim the ball.

 

[nwgull]

What the clip shows clearly is that Terry jumps before the goalkeeper gets near him and that the keeper basically jumped under his arms in an attempt to get into the space that Terry is legally occupying in his aerial challenge. This is one reason why it isn't a foul.

What the clip doesn't show very well is that the 'keeper was totally off balance anyway and was in no position to be able to jump for the ball properly

I think the second most annoying decision he made was when Hargreaves made a good run towards their box when we were 2-2 (I think), he was blatantly tripped from behind but as he made the effort to stay on his feet (but was unable to regain his balance in the end) the ref didn't award the free kick which would have been in a dangerous position. This sort of reffing is why players take a fall at any sort of contact rather than try and play on.

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

Unless players wear pressure sensors this will continue.

Bloody good idea! The campaign for pressure sensors on players starts here!

 

[Marshy]

A definate goal anyone who sias otherwise is clueless.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

Terry clearly had his eye on the ball all the time, and was already in the air when Ricardo jumped at him - he was not exerting downward pressure on the keeper, he was already in the air! Ricardo threw himself against two already airborne players of greater weight and balance, and he unsuprisingly bounced off. As for the mere fact that Terry's hand did make contact with Ricardo, this was not before Ricardo grabbed at Terry in an attempt to get leverage, so it was more a penalty than a foul. There is simply no justification for claiming a foul - defenders are not obliged to get out of the way of opponents to let them past

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

Terry's arm brushed against the keeper. How is that a foul

 

[Storer68]

It only has to be a push "in the opinion of the referee". Which could mean anything counts.

mind you having seen nedved get booked last night for causing gronkaer to do the most blatant dive , one does wonder whether refs can actually trust anything the players do

 

[Storer68]

and he could have given a free kick for Terry obstructing Ricardo's attempt to get to the ball (except that he clearly gave it for pushing")

 

[fatbadger]

mind you having seen nedved get booked last night for causing gronkaer to do the most blatant dive , one does wonder whether refs can actually trust anything the players do

That was truly disgraceful. Why is it that (presumably, if past actions are anything to go by) Gronkjaer will face no trial by TV and no three-match ban for this, but players who spit can expect the full weight of UEFA & FIFA on their heads?

 

[coach03]

IMHO it was a foul. As Terry is in the air, his left arm comes down across the keeper's upper arm and shoulder, thus preventing the keeper to get both hands up to either catch or punch the ball.
At the time in normal speed I couldn't see what was the problem. But having seen the replay, I'm quite hapy it was a foul.

We had plenty of time to win the game and to blame our exit on a referees decision is to miss the point.
We seem to consistently produce a team of chokers at every major tournament.

As for this tosh about not being passionate and Sven not being able to 'motivate' them... I think we need to be more clinical and cold and deal with what the game is, not what it means. The players are professional after all and whilst I don't think they should be devoid of emotion in playing for our country, they should be able to control the approach they take.
Motivation comes from within - all the coach can do is find ways to help the players want to win and find the way to win.

I am not happy about seeing two games from 4 where we seemed to want to sit back and wait for 45 minutes for the game to end whilst we were still winning (that may be down to the coach), but even so, you'd expect one or two on the field to say "we're getting overrun, let's take some initiative".

Too many players didn't perform. Becks (of whom I am a fan) didn't play anything like the standard he can, Gerrard made too many stray long, forward passes, most of the players were too static in their positions and didn't create the confusion and space (through intelligent movement) to make the opportunities. And then on top of that, Portugal out pressed us when we had the ball.
Oh, and as for the heat, the Swedes and the Dutch managed to run all night and serve a match that ebbed and flowed.

No sorry, defeat and exit brought upon us (for the umpteenth time in the last 38 years) by our own ineptitude and lack of craft and imagination. It wasn't the ref's fault.

 

[Yorkie]

It cannot be a foul. Terry jumped first and Ricardo jumps towards him.

On Fantasy Football David Ellery was asked to watch it and he said it was a good goal.

 

[Robbo]

It was a clear foul. That this issue is even being discussed this many days after the event shows just how detached from reality many England fans are. Show me any other country that has made a big fuss about this Meier decision. You won't be able to, because he applied the UEFA regulations and prevalent intpretations of that law correctly. Lord Bracknell is splitting hairs here, he may have indicated a push, was he meant to simulate a shoulder and hand obstruction? What does that look like? It's the same thing!

JEEZUS, get over it! I follow rugby and you've just had a referee blamed for England's 2nd test defeat by New Zealand last Saturday by the England rugby manager and knight of the realm. At least Sven didn't stoop to that level.

England fans have got to get a grip, this constant whingeing about match officials in whatever code is doing England's international reputation no good whatsoever!



Suck it up and look to the future! There's a world cup in Germany in two years' time, England have a young enough team to make an impact if there are no key injuries - that's the real lesson that should be drawn from this Euro 2004 campaign.

C U N T !

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

 

[Sitting Room Only]

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

How can it be a foul, john terry had already jumped in the direction of the ball, before ricardo (who was hopelessly out of position) made his attempt to retrieve the ball. If anything it would ricardo would have had to fouled terry and campbell to get to the ball which he was in no position to get.

No amount of puffed up self justification from the uefa refs committee is going to change my opinion that it was a bad decision. If they are upset at the media reaction, maybe it is they who should get a grip on reality and start acknowledging the inability of some of their officials to do their job properly. Meier's incorrect decision was entirely consistent with his appalling decision making throughout the game and should have come as no surprise to anyone.

In making this point I am not ignoring the opinion that England basically failed to secure the game through their negative tactics and the invisibility of the midfield. I am merely pointing out that despite our obvious failings, we did still score a 'winning' goal and that the fact that it was disallowed cost us the result, ill deserved or not.