The Catholics are at it again

[sydney]

This is all very new to a lot of people, homosexuals have only become overtly gay over the last 30 years max , it is therefore understandable that the mainstream population will find same sex marriages rather odd........these feelings are surely expected to be magnified within the auspices of such organisations as the catholic church, churches in general actually, yorkshire working mens clubs, the north sussex quilting society and the greater weald preserve making guild. well done to the op who has flung a battered saveloyinto the mix and stood quietly by whilst the seagulls tear it to shreds..........NSC classic.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In which case, if it's only about a word, why is the Catholic church so bothered about it ? It's a very simple solution - allow gay couples to get married and allow hetrosexual couples to have civil partnerships. Then it's all fair and equal to everyone. It's rather telling that the subject had hardly hit the headlines until the diatribe from the Catholic church at the weekend.

I know not why. Perhaps it's under the guise that should gays be allowed to be married they might take the church to court to force them to marry them in their churches.

Sounds fanciful, but in a modern day where people go to court over anything who knows.

It's often in the news here. To ridiculous levels. The most amusing thing though is that the PM is a left wing atheist and doesn't want to touch the subject.

I agree with you, let both groups be able to be married or civil unioned, just get it done so they shut the hell up about it.

 

[pastafarian]

Hang on, Uganda has the highest amount of Catholics per head of population in Africa and it greatly reduced its rate of AID's in part to the Government and the Church devising its ABC policy which stands for "Abstinence, Be Faithful, or use Condoms.

That policy helped greatly reduce the incidence of AID's within that nation and was held up as a beacon of hope for other nations on how to combat the problem.

How can it be the Churches fault when Uganda shows that one of the most successful programs in Africa involved the church?

you are talking crap again

the decline in Aids in Uganda had nothing to do with the church. A strong government ABC programme backed with hard currency from donors like the world bank,the availability of Aids related drugs and free drug programmes along with strong education about condom use all contributed.

The church however does have a great influence in Uganda with regard to current policy.there has seen a rise recently in HIV/Aids related cases due to the fact there has been a shift away from the ABC(Abstinence, Being Faithful, and Condom Usage) programme to the AB(Abstinence, Being Faithful) only programme which was set out in 2004,this was co authorised by Martin Ssempa a pastor and church activist.his great friend is Janet (the presidents wife) a born again christian who also supports the removal of condom use from official policy.

wonderful helpful people

 

[ROSM]

less than go to watch live football too, apparently. yet as football fans, we have less than the religious types enjoy.

do we? Supporting football or any other sport is about tribalism so as you can be a tory and a football fan, or a catholic and football fan, it is impossible to draw a comparison as you have done.

But where there is a comparison is; If Gus tell us to do something (such as bear with him and watch tippy tappy football as it is the way to success) there will be many who will do as he asks. Some wont and those that do may well take it out and make comment on those that dont.

Its not too different from a church congregation. Because Gus supported Suarez, doesnt mean all Brighton fans are racists.

 

[BHAFC_Pandapops]

I don't think they do. I think that most churchgoers accept these days that other people have different beliefs. And they live with that.

rightly said, but a few of them are convinced belief = truth = complete truth = everyone else is wrong

 

[ROSM]

rightly said, but a few of them are convinced belief = truth = complete truth = everyone else is wrong

but as I said in my other post - that's no different from your average football crowd or indeed society as a whole.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Could you be any more of a wanker if you tried? .

Well I could try to be more like you I suppose, that would help.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

you are talking crap again

the decline in Aids in Uganda had nothing to do with the church. A strong government ABC programme backed with hard currency from donors like the world bank,the availability of Aids related drugs and free drug programmes along with strong education about condom use all contributed.

The church however does have a great influence in Uganda with regard to current policy.there has seen a rise recently in HIV/Aids related cases due to the fact there has been a shift away from the ABC(Abstinence, Being Faithful, and Condom Usage) programme to the AB(Abstinence, Being Faithful) only programme which was set out in 2004,this was co authorised by Martin Ssempa a pastor and church activist.his great friend is Janet (the presidents wife) a born again christian who also supports the removal of condom use from official policy.

wonderful helpful people

The ABC policy involved government, church leaders of various faiths, community leaders input and support. That's how policies are developed...

We keep being told all these people listen to the Pope and that's why they have AID's. Yet the President who started preaching dropping the C from ABC policy was a Protestant, not a Catholic.

So where's the blame for the Anglicans being responsible for its increase?



And your last comment is crass. 25% of palliative care to people suffering from the disease is provided by organisations funded and run by ordinary Catholics.

Must be easy to slag good people like that off while sitting behind your keyboard.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Well I could try to be more like you I suppose, that would help.

I thought as much, you don't try to debate, you just snipe.

Gutter snipe.

 

[BHAFC_Pandapops]

but as I said in my other post - that's no different from your average football crowd or indeed society as a whole.

true - when you work serving people you ultimately realise that.

 

[pastafarian]

So where's the blame for the Anglicans being responsible for its increase?

ok i blame the Anglicans as well.....happy now?

 

[Weststander]

Apparently a letter against gay marriage is to be read out in 2,500 catholic churches at the weekend.

FFS!

http://t.co/9DdJ5OX6

But have protected covertly gay priests from decades of scandals. Hypocritical church.

 

[pastafarian]

And your last comment is crass. 25% of palliative care to people suffering from the disease is provided by organisations funded and run by ordinary Catholics.

Must be easy to slag good people like that off while sitting behind your keyboard.

show me where i slagged off the carers!
do you not think promoting condom use in Uganda would help reduce the recent rise is HIV/Aids cases there?

 

[chimneys]

It's not a sweeping statement - its a quotation from the church of england marriage service.

Thanks for the clarification. So in your original comment "To the christian church, marriage is a union between a man and woman to the exclusion of all others", instead of "the christian church" you meant "The church of England marriage service states...". The entire Christian faith and a C of E marriage service are two very different things.

The rest of your post I agree with.

 

[beorhthelm]

Would you give political power to Millwall fans?

why should a season ticket holder at Millwall have less political power than say a Hasidic jew, a member of a Baptist group? why do you seek to fram discussion in extremes, why not ask if i would give political power to Port Vale, Ipswich or Reading fan? or a Brighton fan. do you not think we as a group with common ground and interests should have representation and influence in policy regarding those interests? sure the FA puts it tuppence in, but confines itself to strictly football matter and we are underrepresented. however the churches see fit to grossly over state their authority on everything from sunday trading to macro economics, to gay rights. why the f*** have they managed to get the legislation written so that we have this fudge of "civil partnerships" in the first place. now some arent even happy about that.

 

[ROSM]

Thanks for the clarification. So in your original comment "To the christian church, marriage is a union between a man and woman to the exclusion of all others", instead of "the christian church" you meant "The church of England marriage service states...". The entire Christian faith and a C of E marriage service are two very different things.

The rest of your post I agree with.

The church of england one is drawn from the catholic one (as indeed the methodist, urc and orthodox churches and tradentine ones are). Its just that I am more familiar with the CofE one and had a copy to hand.

 

[Simster]

It's nothing to do with being pro-relgion. It's about misrepresenting an opinion without actually reading jack shit on the issue.

You seem to think anyone who diagrees with you agrees with every single thing religion has been a privvy too.

Which is utter bullshit as most reasonable religious people will be horrified by the bad shit every bit as much as you would.

You really do talk bollocks.

1) "It's nothing to do with being pro-relgion. It's about misrepresenting an opinion without actually reading jack shit on the issue."
WTF are you talking about? YOU took umbrage at me suggesting that the church would change their opinion when they fall behind public opinion. And I gave a scenario (including painting a picture of an AIDS ravaged continent) where the church would finally concede that wearing a condom was a good idea. How on earth does that tie up with what you've said here?

2) "You seem to think anyone who diagrees with you agrees with every single thing religion has been a privvy too."
Again, WTF are you talking about? What have I said that you leads you to conclude that?

Ultimately you just froth at the mouth at ANYONE who dares to suggest organised religion is a load of bollocks. How about YOU wind your neck in?

 

[beorhthelm]

do we? Supporting football or any other sport is about tribalism so as you can be a tory and a football fan, or a catholic and football fan, it is impossible to draw a comparison as you have done.

dont think im drawing massive comparisons, im just thinking our opinions are overlooked where there is common ground, for example standing terraces. churches and religious institutions and elite often see fit to impose their opinion on us where its not their concern. they'll chip in on player wages, but you dont see Alex Ferguson commenting on the affluence of the churches with their vast land portfolios. Many christians might not even agree with what bishop X says, but politicans will give him time and consideration because of his position within the institution, as if he represents a large constituency. but that constituency, the live congregation at least, is smaller than those who like to watch football. there's an imbalance.

 

[ROSM]

dont think im drawing massive comparisons, im just thinking our opinions are overlooked where there is common ground, for example standing terraces. churches and religious institutions and elite often see fit to impose their opinion on us where its not their concern. they'll chip in on player wages, but you dont see Alex Ferguson commenting on the affluence of the churches with their vast land portfolios. Many christians might not even agree with what bishop X says, but politicans will give him time and consideration because of his position within the institution, as if he represents a large constituency.

That's because he's too busy slating their refusal to ordain women bishops

 

[El Presidente]

That's how it has been and should be. Why should two men be married? Why can't they live together and let those that are able to procreate be married.

Should we ban infertile couples from marrying then?