[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[Zeberdi]

There does appear to be a cultural norm these days that it is unacceptable to admit when you are wrong or that your position has changed (or is different from your peers) - as people that do are attacked and ridiculed for doing so. This seems to lead to a social pressure from their peers to double down when challenged on their opinions I feel.

Yes, certainly online anyway - social media has a lot to answer for I think. Irl, debates and conversations are much more nuanced but on social media forums where people seem to seek far too much validation for who they are/how much they are liked, there is a culture of ’silencing’ legitimate inquiry/debate in favour of perpetuating echo chambers and the school of polarised opinion. Also, when people feel more and more powerless to influence the world around them irl, they tend to seek online communities that affirm their world view. Unfortunately most online communities are primarily glued together by other largely anonymous subscribers who are also only looking for affirmation of pre-existing views that they have no intention of changing or moderating. Anyone that seriously challenges those views risks being to bullied/ignored/derided so most impose upon themselves a sort of voluntary gag order for self-preservation or post the prevailing ‘truth’ as a passport for belonging.

“it is now clear that social media has far-reaching social, political, and ethical consequences for the way in which reality is disseminated online, in turn influencing human thought and action”

(https://www.standrewslawreview.com/post/arbiters-of-truth-the-un-reality-of-social-media-platforms)

 

[Triggaaar]

There does appear to be a cultural norm these days that it is unacceptable to admit when you are wrong or that your position has changed (or is different from your peers) - as people that do are attacked and ridiculed for doing so.

I can't speak for everyone, but I won't attack or ridicule you if you've come to realise that Trump is a liar and criminal and in it purely for himself, and I don't think others here will either.

This seems to lead to a social pressure from their peers to double down when challenged on their opinions I feel.

Yes, but the fact that you've recognised that suggests you're beginning to feel free to change.

 

[Curious Orange]

I can't speak for everyone, but I won't attack or ridicule you if you've come to realise that Trump is a liar and criminal and in it purely for himself, and I don't think others here will either.



Yes, but the fact that you've recognised that suggests you're beginning to feel free to change.

I do hope you haven't ever mistaken me for being a Trump supporter?

 

[Triggaaar]

I do hope you haven't ever mistaken me for being a Trump supporter?

Shit, sorry, I just did. I misread your username

 

[lasvegan]

I’m pretty sure @lasvegan was being tongue in cheek with this ‘analysis’

Perhaps read my preceding posts with him on the previous page

I suppose it is possible that I’d had several 11% beers and was being a bit of a wind up merchant. I will tone down my sense of humor (or lack there of) and start treating the Trump/Biden (you couldn’t make it up) debate with the seriousness it duly deserves.

I have a nasty sinus infection and was self medicating…

 

[lasvegan]

A complete mockery of the US legal system when 2 disgraced lawyers may be the “star witnesses” in a sham trial.

Avenatti says Trump's legal defense team is in touch: 'Happy to testify'

In an interview with the New York Post from prison, suspended attorney Michael Avenatti claimed he'd be willing to testify if the defense calls on him in the Trump hush money trial.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Zeberdi]

I suppose it is possible that I’d had several 11% beers and was being a bit of a wind up merchant. I will tone down my sense of humor (or lack there of) and start treating the Trump/Biden (you couldn’t make it up) debate with the seriousness it duly deserves.

I have a nasty sinus infection and was self medicating…

I hope do hope you don’t

Having opposing political views and a sense of humour are not mutually exclusive - I think we both can see the absurdity of an election (you couldn’t make it up) that has an octogenarian who looks like he should be in a nursing home pitted against a buffoon who’s character is the complete antithesis to everyone’s idea of ’Presidential’!

 

[Curious Orange]

A complete mockery of the US legal system when 2 disgraced lawyers may be the “star witnesses” in a sham trial.

Avenatti says Trump's legal defense team is in touch: 'Happy to testify'

In an interview with the New York Post from prison, suspended attorney Michael Avenatti claimed he'd be willing to testify if the defense calls on him in the Trump hush money trial.

www.foxnews.com

Don't trust the guy who I asked to lie (and commit fraud) for me, he's a liar!

 

[Curious Orange]

I do wonder why Mr Trump has such bad luck with his hires though. He tells us he only hires the best people, but so many of them seem to end up with legal difficulties.

 

[rogersix]

A complete mockery of the US legal system when 2 disgraced lawyers may be the “star witnesses” in a sham trial.

Avenatti says Trump's legal defense team is in touch: 'Happy to testify'

In an interview with the New York Post from prison, suspended attorney Michael Avenatti claimed he'd be willing to testify if the defense calls on him in the Trump hush money trial.

www.foxnews.com

the people who know him seem to dislike him and have little respect for him, maybe it's something personal

 

[Curious Orange]

Possibly off topic, though Trump is briefly mentioned, but here is Ben Elton discussing modern politics with Andrew Marr.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I suppose it is possible that I’d had several 11% beers and was being a bit of a wind up merchant. I will tone down my sense of humor (or lack there of) and start treating the Trump/Biden (you couldn’t make it up) debate with the seriousness it duly deserves.

I have a nasty sinus infection and was self medicating…

Have you tried injecting bleach or shining a bright light to self medicate

 

[Triggaaar]

A complete mockery of the US legal system when 2 disgraced lawyers may be the “star witnesses” in a sham trial.

Avenatti says Trump's legal defense team is in touch: 'Happy to testify'

In an interview with the New York Post from prison, suspended attorney Michael Avenatti claimed he'd be willing to testify if the defense calls on him in the Trump hush money trial.

www.foxnews.com

As a Trump supporter, I'm surprised to see you attacking his defence team here. Why the change of heart?

 

[Zeberdi]

As a Trump supporter, I'm surprised to see you attacking his defence team here. Why the change of heart?

I think @lasvegan was probably attacking the fact the CoJ case against Trump is even being tried at all rather than attacking /the defence team per se - because any criminal justice system that can convict a Lawyer for fraud against his client (who he was defending against the current Defendant in another trial to be released from a NDA/hush money agreement), yet can then allow that same suspended Lawyer to defend the Defendant (Trump) in a case where he denies paying that victim off in the first place with a NDA…

I wouldn’t go as far as @lasvegan to call the whole trial a ‘sham’ but, well it certainly makes a bit of an donkey’s arse of the law doesn’t it?

On top of that, it is pretty obvious Aventti is an opportunist who is angling for a tit for tat from Trump so he can get a Presidential pardon if Trump is elected- imo nobody in prison ever helps anyone with a Court case unless it’s to make a deal to reduce/commute his own sentence.

This was a Fox News story anyway - so probably a bit of pro-Trump BS.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think @lasvegan was probably attacking the fact the CoJ case against Trump is even being tried at all rather than attacking /the defence team per se - because any criminal justice system that can convict a Lawyer for fraud against his client (who he was defending against the current Defendant in another trial to be released from a NDA/hush money agreement), yet can then allow that same suspended Lawyer to defend the Defendant (Trump) in a case where he denies paying that victim off in the first place with a NDA…

I wouldn’t go as far as @lasvegan to call the whole trial a ‘sham’ but, well it certainly makes a bit of an donkey’s arse of the law doesn’t it?

On top of that, it is pretty obvious Aventti is an opportunist who is angling for a tit for tat from Trump so he can get a Presidential pardon if Trump is elected- imo nobody in prison ever helps anyone with a Court case unless it’s to make a deal to reduce/commute his own sentence.

This was a Fox News story anyway - so probably a bit of pro-Trump BS.

I know it's Fox News, but my point is that the situation doesn't actually speak negatively of the criminal justice system, but rather the desperation of the defence team. It's a good thing that the prosecution/defence can call anyone. That one of them should need to call an opportunist criminal sheds light on that team.

 

[Triggaaar]

I know what your point is - but are you are arguing with the wrong person - you criticised @lasvegan for attacking the defence team

Firstly, I didn't criticise lasvegan, I said I was surprised. Secondly, you are putting forward what you think his argument might be, and I'm disagreeing with that argument.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you disagree with his point of view, take it up with Lasvegan.

I took it up with Lasvegan, but you replied, so I replied to you.

I’m done here.

Good.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As a Trump supporter, I'm surprised to see you attacking his defence team here. Why the change of heart?

@lasvegan isn't a Trump 'supporter'. He simply thinks Trump is a better option than Biden

*Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't.

*(Purposeless music reference for reasons of whimsy)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Firstly, I didn't criticise lasvegan, I said I was surprised. Secondly, you are putting forward what you think his argument might be, and I'm disagreeing with that argument.

I see this is going well.

If I had to put two people in a room to debate a precise value of Pi versus an accurate value, I know who to call.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That is too nuanced for people that want a polarised debate. There really isn’t anyone other than Lasvegan they can get their teeth into now Crawley Dingo posts less. I absolutely don’t support Trump either but am interested in hearing from people who are likely to vote for him and why they do. This thread would be much poorer ( and just another echo chamber) without Lasvegan’s input.

Yep. @lasvegan is a thoughtful bloke. Will admit when a decision is a bit knee jerk and doesn't try to baffle us with Maga bullshit, or cut and paste from Fake News pages.

I remember hearing Bron Waugh on the early days of radio 5, debating redistribution of wealth. A caller rather po-facedly demanded redistribution on the grounds of fairness, and elaborated the structural societal changes necessary to achieve this. Bron replied "you want to change society because you want what I've got, and I want to keep society as it is because I want to keep what I have". As a red-in-tooth-and -claw lefty at the time, I couldn't help but laugh. I think I may have tittered, and possibly guffawed.