[Politics] The 2024 US Election - Trump v Harris

[Zeberdi]

Not one to defend him, but I believe this was about manufacturing and China using Mexico to import cars

I imagine he knew the reaction it would bring, it has and I imagine he's cheering it has played out like he hoped.

What does it matter if he was in the context of discussing electric cars or immigrants/cars crossing the border, he was referring to what would happen to ‘the whole country’ if he didn’t win the 2024 election. That whole speech is a dog whistle for his supporters not to accept the results of the 2024 election if he did not win and trying to convince them that the DoJ was really after them (and it was only Trump standing between them and the DoJ)

I really don‘t think the DoJ is after the electorate for fraud, sexual assault, tax evasion and squirrelling away top secret documents in a gold plated bathroom in a Palm Beach social club - as much as Trump would like to try and present himself as a martyr for ‘the people’.

It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe this shit.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

What does it matter if he was in the context of discussing electric cars or immigrants/cars crossing the border, he was referring to what would happen to ‘the whole country’ if he didn’t win the 2024 election. That whole speech is a dog whistle for his supporters not to accept the results of the 2024 election if he did not win and trying to convince them that the DoJ was really after them (and it was only Trump standing between them and the DoJ)

I really don‘t think the DoJ is after the electorate for fraud, sexual assault, tax evasion and squirrelling away top secret documents in a gold plated bathroom in a Palm Beach social club - as much as Trump would like to try and present himself as a martyr for ‘the people’.

It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe this shit.

Of course context matters, as you've said there's enough to go after the prick for.

It's almost like people haven't learnt from 2016 and his tactics and what he does, Jimmy Kimmel at the Oscars fell into his trap as well, Kimmel etc talked shit about him pre election last time, how did that work out ?

Every time he gets called out, his ratings go up.

 

[Zeberdi]

Of course context matters, as you've said there's enough to go after the prick for.

It's almost like people haven't learnt from 2016 and his tactics and what he does, Jimmy Kimmel at the Oscars fell into his trap as well, Kimmel etc talked shit about him pre election last time, how did that work out ?

Every time he gets called out, his ratings go up.

Are you suggesting his criminal behaviour is ignored?

Because that was what most of that speech was about - how he is ‘victimised’ by the DoJ.

It’s not about ‘learning from his tactics’ - it is about who he is and what he has done. His ratings have gone up because frankly stupid and disenfranchised people believe him when he says he’s innocent and all the criminal indictments are a political ploy to silence him.

Trump is inciting crowds to not accept the democratic results of the next election if he loses - I don’t understand why you don’t see that and keep putting it back on the DoJ not to bring charges against him. It is not Biden dragging him through the courts but Grand juries, Democrat and Republican appointed judges, and those he has caused harm to and the evidence against him.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

there's a problem here, he's misquoted about a word and everyone loses their shit over it. the bloobath comment is relating to trade.

i know full well he uses the language to trigger a reaction in his supporters. it also works on his opponents. they latch on, cry about it, then his supporters see its out of context and that panders to the sense there's a conspiracy to suppress them. whatever we want to call this, Trump a lot, lot better at this than the Democrats.

So when is a bloodbath ever a good thing? And, if it's about trade, there won't ACTUALLY be a bloodbath, will there?

So why say it? Language matters.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Not one to defend him, but I believe this was about manufacturing and China using Mexico to import cars

I imagine he knew the reaction it would bring, it has and I imagine he's cheering it has played out like he hoped.

Again, a literal 'bloodbath'?

I think not.

 

[Bodian]

So when is a bloodbath ever a good thing? And, if it's about trade, there won't ACTUALLY be a bloodbath, will there?

So why say it? Language matters.

I had a look, and it does seem to be relatively often applied to economic events.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Are you suggesting his criminal behaviour is ignored?

Because that was what most of that speech was about - how he is ‘victimised’ by the DoJ

It’s not about ‘learning from his tactics’ - it is about who he is and what he has done. His ratings have gone up because frankly stupid and disenfranchised people believe him when he says he’s innocent and all the criminal indictments are a political ploy to silence him.

I think a better idea was to wait till after this election before going after him, before all the court cases started he wasn't even leading the race to win the party nomination.

It is absolutely about learning from his tactics, let's see where we are at the end of the year after people calling his supporters dumb, we've seen it here with the Brexit vote.

Going back to the original point of the bloodbath comments, thanks to the Press release from Biden/Harris he's now going to get workers at car factories onside, "look they don't care about you" and in swing states like Michigan, that is going to make a difference.

 

[Zeberdi]

There is a lot of apologists for Trump’s rhetoric here.

It does not matter if Trump was warning of a literal ‘bloodbath’ - it does not matter if Trump was not literally suggesting that if he was not elected there would never be another election ever - words matter. They can be enough to incite violence without actually literally advocating violence.

That is what ’dog whistling means’.

Going back to the original point of the bloodbath comments, thanks to the Press release from Biden/Harris he's now going to get workers at car factories onside, "look they don't care about you" and in swing states like Michigan, that is going to make a difference.

The press release is immaterial - it was recorded live by C-Span and circulated by the associated press agencies before he’d barely finish his speech.

think a better idea was to wait till after this election before going after him, before all the court cases started he wasn't even leading the race to win the party nomination.

You seem to be confusing Trump’s criminal indictments brought by the Department of Justice with the political process of the campaign to re-elect the President in the US. I know the lines can be and are blurred in America (not least by a Republican majority of Justices on the Supreme Court who have influenced recent decisions with a republican bias) but these charges started against Trump as far back as 2020 (and earlier) - Grand Jury investigations can take years, they didn’t start when Trump announced his candidature, they arise from his time as President and earlier - Trump announced his candidature when all these investigations by the DoJ were already well under way - some even think he decided to run to avoid the legal consequences of his alleged crimes. He ‘wasn’t leading the race before they all started’ because he didn’t even enter the race until November 2022, then made it a central campaign strategy to claim was he being targeted because he was standing for election and anyway he should be immune because the indictments go back to when he was President - as I said rubbish and anyone that buys that twisted logic is being dumb.

Have you ever wondered why Trump constantly bangs on about his indictments and being victimised - he’s using the platform that his candidacy gives him to campaign for his legal innocence and to argue that he should still be President - not campaign for the good of the Country. (IMpoliticalO!)

 

[The Clamp]

I have been very careful what I have said, you need to put those allegations in context. I've been called all sorts in this thread not even for expressing an opinion other than its a fit up job, I am questioning the prevailing narrative. If i am throwing mud BACK then I suggest don't start lobbing it to begin with.

Now I have already conceded that Trump had the documents, a misdemeanour . Can you concede that some of the charges are far fetched?

The problem is as I see it that if I am wrong then I am a conspiracy theorist, if you are wrong then you lack critical thinking skills and got led by the nose by the MSM. Then on the next level if I'm wrong I am defending someone who is totally evil so guilty of being gullible and naive , if you are wrong you are condemning an innocent man. This point you are already at by not giving Trump any benefit of the doubt so will lead to a stigma of being nasty or a bad faith actor. Why would you take that position? A sane person would stay right out of the conflict.

I will respond to you on this discussion then i'm done, there is only about 4 of you that can hold a civil conversation. All are arguing in bad faith and have made no attempt to give quarter over the issue, none. If you cant be conciliary to accommodate alternate views there is no conversation. I'm F'ing tired of it.

Edit; can’t be arsed

 

[Seagull58]

I have been very careful what I have said, you need to put those allegations in context. I've been called all sorts in this thread not even for expressing an opinion other than its a fit up job, I am questioning the prevailing narrative. If i am throwing mud BACK then I suggest don't start lobbing it to begin with.

Now I have already conceded that Trump had the documents, a misdemeanour . Can you concede that some of the charges are far fetched?

The problem is as I see it that if I am wrong then I am a conspiracy theorist, if you are wrong then you lack critical thinking skills and got led by the nose by the MSM. Then on the next level if I'm wrong I am defending someone who is totally evil so guilty of being gullible and naive , if you are wrong you are condemning an innocent man. This point you are already at by not giving Trump any benefit of the doubt so will lead to a stigma of being nasty or a bad faith actor. Why would you take that position? A sane person would stay right out of the conflict.

I will respond to you on this discussion then i'm done, there is only about 4 of you that can hold a civil conversation. All are arguing in bad faith and have made no attempt to give quarter over the issue, none. If you cant be conciliary to accommodate alternate views there is no conversation. I'm F'ing tired of it.

Treason is not a misdemeanor.

 

[peterward]

Are you suggesting his criminal behaviour is ignored?

Because that was what most of that speech was about - how he is ‘victimised’ by the DoJ.

It’s not about ‘learning from his tactics’ - it is about who he is and what he has done. His ratings have gone up because frankly stupid and disenfranchised people believe him when he says he’s innocent and all the criminal indictments are a political ploy to silence him.

Trump is inciting crowds to not accept the democratic results of the next election if he loses - I don’t understand why you don’t see that and keep putting it back on the DoJ not to bring charges against him. It is not Biden dragging him through the courts but Grand juries, Democrat and Republican appointed judges, and those he has caused harm to and the evidence against him.

Its a psychological manipulative tool called "DARVO"

Its used world over by malignant narcissists as a form of manipulation.

When you get this, it will bring so much light to all his tweets, truth social attacks, political, DOJ attacks, E Jean Carrol etc.

He uses this strategy always

DARVO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think a better idea was to wait till after this election before going after him, before all the court cases started he wasn't even leading the race to win the party nomination.

It is absolutely about learning from his tactics, let's see where we are at the end of the year after people calling his supporters dumb, we've seen it here with the Brexit vote.

Going back to the original point of the bloodbath comments, thanks to the Press release from Biden/Harris he's now going to get workers at car factories onside, "look they don't care about you" and in swing states like Michigan, that is going to make a difference.

If he becomes president again he can pardon* himself and the court cases would have to stop.

Unless Congress (republican majority) vote to impeach him. And the chances of that are.......zero.

Trump has to become president again in order to shore up his finances and untouchability. The only thing that may stop him is a conviction before the election. And I say 'may'.

*This looks unacceptably bad to UK eyes, but it would be legal in America, and the president is like the king in the US, in that it is considered unpatriotic by 80 million plus to not bow down to the president. My president, right or wrong.

And let's not forget, it took the resolve of the conservative party to free the nation of Johnson. A man whose narcissism is beaten only by his laziness. Trump isn't lazy, sadly. And the republicans are not prepared to put the nation or even their own reputation and legacy above fealty to their Big Dog.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Oh that’s OK then. As long as there’s a logical, rational explanation for inciting violence (again).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Edit; can’t be arsed

We will never know his answer because, like me, you are certainly on the madman's ignore list. He doesn't have the same brass neck as some, and is as brittle as a pair of knickers dipped in liquid nitrogen and dropped from a great height.

 

[beorhthelm]

Exactly this.

He reads from a teleprompter.

There's few coindences, it's calculated imho, to lay the threat.

He also did exactly this in Jan 2021, and thus why no republican heavyweights including his former VP will endorse him.

@beorhthelm rather than be a Trump apologist, i challenge you to watch the 82 min documentary I posted above (#2408), from accounts of those right next to him, on his staff. Kellyanne Conways husband etc about his mental state and motivations

You may play with semantics, Trump a malignant narcissist, motives based on mental state are pretty clear.

If you can't be arsed, use your brain. This criminal was willing do absolutely anything to hold onto power, including trying to steal and overturn a democratic election and by launching a "bloodbath" insurrection, government take over in Washington where people were killed.

You really think if Biden wins and he's facing Jail, this malignant narcissist was only referring to car imports?

hardly an apologist, just a simple observation the reaction to his speech will serve him well. he is manipulating his supporters and detrators at the same time.

 

[Zeberdi]

We will never know his answer because, like me, you are certainly on the madman's ignore list. He doesn't have the same brass neck as some, and is as brittle as a pair of knickers dipped in liquid nitrogen and dropped from a great height.

And all I have in my mind is tumbleweed and frustratingly boring adjectives

 

[Stat Brother]

hardly an apologist, just a simple observation the reaction to his speech will serve him well. he is manipulating his supporters and detrators at the same time.

As is customary - It ain't rocket science.
I do wonder how much of this manipulation is planned or just the 'fortunate' end result of Trump's personality.


Trump was desperate to be talked about at The Oscars, the fact Kimmel gave him a voice is insane.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I had a look, and it does seem to be relatively often applied to economic events.

View attachment 178905

Fair enough. I doubt that bellend meant it like that though.

 

[beorhthelm]

So when is a bloodbath ever a good thing? And, if it's about trade, there won't ACTUALLY be a bloodbath, will there?

So why say it? Language matters.

you'd agree that saying there could be a "bloodbath" in US job opportunities with Chinese imports via Mexico*, vs a bloodbath following an election are very different things?

dozens of US headlines say the later, which when shown in context will be used as evidence there is campaign against him. probably the plan and everyone has played along.

*the premise is bollocks anyway, companies have been importing cars to US for years via Mexico. USian's aren't going to buy Chinese cars unless they are somehow better than others on offer, not because they are bit cheaper from being made in Mexico.

 

[Triggaaar]

I had a look, and it does seem to be relatively often applied to economic events.

View attachment 178905

Most of the examples there are of literal blood being spilled and people dying. All of the examples that aren't about that, explicitly state what they are about. So if Trump had said 'a trade bloodbath', we'd know he was talking about trade. If he just says bloodbath, then he's talking about people dying.