Techie Question

[Cian]

Doh, more MYOB bullshit !!
Just you try creating a share on the root of your C: drive on a Win 98 PC and then hook up to the web - in less than 5 mins your'll be fcuked - FACT
(I know coz it happend to me on one of my home PC's not that long ago)

Its not shared by default, if you create a password unprotected CIFS share on ANYTHING, it'll be f***ed in 5 minutes, and that includes doing it on a Mac, a Linux box, or any other OS that supports CIFS ("Windows Networking"). Its not a Windows 98 specific problem

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

But surely the club wouldn't notice if I just took one shirt.

Maybe the example would be more like photocopying a match-day programme (that you wouldn't have bought anyway).

You've broken copyright law as it stands but have you really robbed the club of £3

 

[Cian]

No. I do it because I can get away with it.

I can't at Asda.

Oh, you'll have a nice fun morning the day the BPI or BSA men come a-knocking. With police backup, these days.

If you've downloaded more than a few gigs of stuff P2P with a main-line ISP, particularly one with US involvment like NTL or BT, you're screwed. May as well just wait and take it.

 

[Cian]

Maybe the example would be more like photocopying a match-day programme (that you wouldn't have bought anyway).

You've broken copyright law as it stands but have you really robbed the club of £3

No, because in this case he's not going to purchase the item, he's stealing it instead. The whole "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" argument has absolutely no weight, btw, before anyone even tries it

Theft is theft. In fact, copyright fraud is classed as being somewhat higher level than non-violent theft, as its IP violation.

 

[JonC]

Oh, you'll have a nice fun morning the day the BPI or BSA men come a-knocking. With police backup, these days.

If you've downloaded more than a few gigs of stuff P2P with a main-line ISP, particularly one with US involvment like NTL or BT, you're screwed. May as well just wait and take it.

I suppose they'll arrest everyone file sharing in the UK as well.

Busy day that.

 

[JonC]

No, because in this case he's not going to purchase the item, he's stealing it instead. The whole "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" argument has absolutely no weight, btw, before anyone even tries it

Theft is theft. In fact, copyright fraud is classed as being somewhat higher level than non-violent theft, as its IP violation.

It's a political expression of thought MYOB.

A bit like your right to talk bollocks.

 

[Another Berkshire Seagull]

Maybe the example would be more like photocopying a match-day programme (that you wouldn't have bought anyway).

You've broken copyright law as it stands but have you really robbed the club of £3

I like my was of thinking. Theft is theft.

The difference is that your unlikely to get found out/prosecuted so therefore it's deemed morally acceptable.

 

[Cian]

I suppose they'll arrest everyone file sharing in the UK as well.

Busy day that.

They're going after everyone who a: did a lot of it and b: was a f***ing idiot.

That generally means people who used NTL, AOL or BT Openworld and took down a few gigs of stuff off Kazaa and WinMX and not either a less well known network (Gnutella-based networks even classifiy as this) or secured network (WASTE, and similar).

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

unprotected CIFS share on ANYTHING, it'll be f***ed in 5 minutes
Its not a Windows 98 specific problem

Again not true - my NTFS Win 2k C: share is safe and has been for some time.
I'd expect you to know that the security features within NT are far superior to the DOS bases O/S of Win 9x ...
c'mon MYOB keep up ...

 

[Cian]

Again not true - my NTFS Win 2k C: share is safe and has been for some time.
I'd expect you to know that the security features within NT are far superior to the DOS bases O/S of Win 9x ...
c'mon MYOB keep up ...

You don't have it sitting open to the web with no username and password though.

Remember that Windows 98 had no port filtering, which was the style at the time, and didn't restrict access at all. Its not a security hole, its just the way things were done in 1998.

For anyone with UNIX experience, systems that old didn't shadow the passwords (meaning anyone with ten minutes on their hands and a gues account could get your password). That was actually a security feature, for if you lost your password (because once someone has physical access to your machine, its broken into anyway...)

Being designed in such a way that a system gets made insecure by someone doing stupid doesn't make the system insecure. Windows 2000 turned off non-subnet access to CIFS by default because too many idiots were having their shares screwed with - which is a pity, as it was a useful feature

 

[Bluejuice]

No. I do it because I can get away with it.

I can't at Asda.

Bang on

 

[adrian29uk]

Microsoft are under big pressures.

There being attacked from all corners of the market

MacOSX & Linux & BSD for desktop use

Linux on web servers

Linux on PDA

Microsoft ie 7 is crap - Firefox now has 10% market share of the browser market and is much much better

Microsoft office costs a lot of money, Open source open office is free to all businesses and does just as good a job for menial office tasks.

Windows server 2003 costs a lot of money Apache is free has stacks more features and is a real server and is far more reliable.

.net technologies costs a lot of money, .php is free to use and deploy and test your scripts on your own machine including linux,mac,win

ms sql costs a lot of money, mysql which is what this board is using is free to use and deploy

Windows Longhorn / Vista is late is still lagging behind OSX for speed and reliability.

Its getting harder everyday for Microsoft because of the above.

Microsoft have been screwing us all for years and have taught us how not to use computers.

I have no choice but to use Windows because of Dreamweaver MX & Photoshop I cant afford a Mac yet but what I can afford is Crossover Office on Linux which will allow me to run these applications. Version 5 gets released this month and is meant to be a big improvment on other versions so hopefully I can get rid of Windows soon as. Lets see.

 

[Another Berkshire Seagull]

Microsoft are under big pressures.

There being attacked from all corners of the market

Isn't competition a good thing, when I look at the innovations coming out of Microsoft I think this can only be a good thing. As we have seen in the past a large part of the innovation produced is then replicated in open source software and other less popularised platforms.

MacOSX & Linux & BSD for desktop use

For Desktop? Get serious!

Linux on web servers

Linux on PDA

Linux with Apache, agreed is a worthy competitor, good software is good software so my hats go off to the developers they've done a good job. I feel happy with the work gone into IIS6 and IIS7 on windows to make me feel the Microsoft platofrm can continue to compete here in a healthy market.

Microsoft ie 7 is crap - Firefox now has 10% market share of the browser market and is much much better

IE7 isn't even released yet all you guys have seen is a tech preview of some of the early bits produced here. Web Browsers are getting a bit of a geek religious topic but once IE7 releases I think the mass market will be pleased with the work done here especially around security (anti phishing etc...), standards and not to mention fixing the embarassing printing that chops off parts of pages

Microsoft office costs a lot of money, Open source open office is free to all businesses and does just as good a job for menial office tasks.

Office is value for money for businesses given the productivity it produces. I must admit I didn't see too much value in upgrading to the 2003 System version and for this I hope the dev teams got a real slap, however Office 12 is looking fine. Lots of fine new features and great workflow features that will make businesses really be able to put office at the heart of everything they do with business documents.

Windows server 2003 costs a lot of money Apache is free has stacks more features and is a real server and is far more reliable.

Your comparing apples and pears here Windows Server 2003 is an OS and apache a Web Server. So in fact given this sentence I'll say quite categorically Windows Server 2003 has oodles more features. Of course if you mean IIS6 in Windows then I guess apache and IIS are both similar and developers on each platform will exploit the best features of each.

.net technologies costs a lot of money, .php is free to use and deploy and test your scripts on your own machine including linux,mac,win

.NET Technology is free, so what are you talking about? You can download the .NET Framework SDK 1.1 from here. This has a compiler and all the framework to allow you to build everything that PHP has and a whole deal more like the fact that ASP.NET is compiled verses PHP's slower interpreted nature (I guess seeing as your talking PHP your interested in web development) of course .NET allows you to take the same development further than PHP to writing Windows applications, business services, XML web services and mobile apps to name but a few.

What does cost money are Microsoft's tools for serious developers to write code more productively. No other development platform has tools support like the Microsoft platform and this is the reason more businesses are picking the .NET plaform than any other development platform.

ms sql costs a lot of money, mysql which is what this board is using is free to use and deploy

Oracle (market leader) costs more than MS SQL Server. I think most of the enterprise database work is going on between Microsoft, Oracle and IBM. If you want a free database from Microsoft try MSDE 2000.

Perhaps MySql is the reason NSC runs out of grunt everytime something of note happens at the club (fixtures out, falmer descisions etc..)?

Windows Longhorn / Vista is late is still lagging behind OSX for speed and reliability.

It's not shipped yet so this is irrelivant as it will be performant and reliable when it ships. The most noteable thing here is that Vista will be so far ahead of the competitions desktop OS it's untrue. Everyone I have spoken to who has been working with Vista is seriously impressed it. If your not I'd be really interested to know what you want from the next OS?

Its getting harder everyday for Microsoft because of the above.

Of course it gets harder (thats what competition is about) the winners in this are users as more innovation (on all platforms) is delivered and users reap the rewards and get the cutting edge of software technology.

Microsoft have been screwing us all for years and have taught us how not to use computers.

I think you'll find more people on here have learned their computing on a Microsoft OS so I'd argue the majority of people have been shown how to use computers by Microsoft. If the majority of people move to another OS then this will be indicative of your so called screwed statement, however I don't think this is going to be happening with the current competition to the Microsoft OS.

I have no choice but to use Windows because of Dreamweaver MX & Photoshop I cant afford a Mac yet but what I can afford is Crossover Office on Linux which will allow me to run these applications. Version 5 gets released this month and is meant to be a big improvment on other versions so hopefully I can get rid of Windows soon as. Lets see.

So you have a choice and your choice is currently Windows! I wish you well when you move off Windows. I hope when you move back to the platform when Vista ships you like it

 

[Cian]

Isn't competition a good thing, when I look at the innovations coming out of Microsoft I think this can only be a good thing. As we have seen in the past a large part of the innovation produced is then replicated in open source software and other less popularised platforms.

Microsoft don't generally innovate - I can't name a single thing in the past ten years beyond the copy protection systems. However, competition is always good

For Desktop? Get serious!

Linux and BSD aren't. OSX isn't, due to the hardware access costs. And the sole x86 desktop OS that had Microsoft actually shitting themselves circa 1999 isn't being seriously persued by its owners.

IE7 isn't even released yet all you guys have seen is a tech preview of some of the early bits produced here. Web Browsers are getting a bit of a geek religious topic but once IE7 releases I think the mass market will be pleased with the work done here especially around security (anti phishing etc...), standards and not to mention fixing the embarassing printing that chops off parts of pages

And you think the mass market will still be using IE by then?

Seriously, get it working on Windows 2000 and you might have something, even 98SE and Me would be a good idea. XP and Vista only == bye bye massive market share

Office is value for money for businesses given the productivity it produces. I must admit I didn't see too much value in upgrading to the 2003 System version and for this I hope the dev teams got a real slap, however Office 12 is looking fine. Lots of fine new features and great workflow features that will make businesses really be able to put office at the heart of everything they do with business documents.

Office is not value for money when you only use 3% of the features. In work, we only have Office for those who actually -need- its features, and in each case its a single boxed bought copy and not volume licencing. Result - 80% savings. OpenOffice.org 2.0b2 contains 95% of the features of Office, including the much-pushed Pivot tables, auto shapes, password protection support, etc that no other non-Microsoft office app has.

Your comparing apples and pears here Windows Server 2003 is an OS and apache a Web Server. So in fact given this sentence I'll say quite categorically Windows Server 2003 has oodles more features. Of course if you mean IIS6 in Windows then I guess apache and IIS are both similar and developers on each platform will exploit the best features of each.

2K3 obviously has more features than a single server app, but with the exception of IRCX, it inlcudes nothing that can't be done as well or better with free software. And only Microsoft's own chat networks use IRCX.

.NET Technology is free, so what are you talking about? You can download the .NET Framework SDK 1.1 from here. This has a compiler and all the framework to allow you to build everything that PHP has and a whole deal more like the fact that ASP.NET is compiled verses PHP's slower interpreted nature (I guess seeing as your talking PHP your interested in web development) of course .NET allows you to take the same development further than PHP to writing Windows applications, business services, XML web services and mobile apps to name but a few.

.NET is also an ECMA standard, and has opensource reimplementations, so yes, its "free" in all senses of the word.

Perhaps MySql is the reason NSC runs out of grunt everytime something of note happens at the club (fixtures out, falmer descisions etc..)?

It is. However, same sized site running on MSSQL or Jet is usually significantly slower. Postgres is the daddy for free, fast relation databases.

It's not shipped yet so this is irrelivant as it will be performant and reliable when it ships. The most noteable thing here is that Vista will be so far ahead of the competitions desktop OS it's untrue. Everyone I have spoken to who has been working with Vista is seriously impressed it. If your not I'd be really interested to know what you want from the next OS?

Windows 2000 and Windows XP both got noticably slower to use from the final beta to the master, so I hold absolutely no hope for Vista.

I think you'll find more people on here have learned their computing on a Microsoft OS so I'd argue the majority of people have been shown how to use computers by Microsoft. If the majority of people move to another OS then this will be indicative of your so called screwed statement, however I don't think this is going to be happening with the current competition to the Microsoft OS.

You're posting from the UK. Most people actually used RISCOS in the UK for their first ever real "learning" on a computer (messing around the net doesn't count, I mean programming, etc), due to that being what education used for years. Most people use Windows as their home and work OS, but most people who actually know how to -use- their computer either started on or still use an alternate platform

So you have a choice and your choice is currently Windows! I wish you well when you move off Windows. I hope when you move back to the platform when Vista ships you like it

Most people who are considering using another OS use Windows not by choice but by being trapped.

Nearest I came to being trapped into Windows was keeping on OS/2 for a long time because there was a Windows app I needed that ran in Odin....

 

[Another Berkshire Seagull]

Microsoft don't generally innovate - I can't name a single thing in the past ten years beyond the copy protection systems. However, competition is always good

I think we'll have to beg to differ here as I still consider Microsoft to be the most innovative company in the industry. A company that puts more into research than NASA each year and you come out with a statement like that. Take off your anti-microsoft shades and smell the seattle coffee.

Linux and BSD aren't. OSX isn't, due to the hardware access costs. And the sole x86 desktop OS that had Microsoft actually shitting themselves circa 1999 isn't being seriously persued by its owners.

I don't know what gave you this impression but this simple isn't true. Put simply Apple is a Microsoft toy that has been bailed out twice from going under by Microsoft.

And you think the mass market will still be using IE by then?

Seriously, get it working on Windows 2000 and you might have something, even 98SE and Me would be a good idea. XP and Vista only == bye bye massive market share

Time will well but...yes!
XP + Vista will be our market share. Sometimes you have to be confident of the products you produce.

If anything I hope with the introduction of Vista will see the browser lose some of it's usefullness (don't get me wrong I'm not saying all) when far richer content can be delivered via other means. Will this happen who knows but at least Microsoft is willing to take a bold bet in order to give consumers a choice of a completely new technology that can deliver far richer content, developed in a fraction of the time.

Office is not value for money when you only use 3% of the features. In work, we only have Office for those who actually -need- its features, and in each case its a single boxed bought copy and not volume licencing. Result - 80% savings. OpenOffice.org 2.0b2 contains 95% of the features of Office, including the much-pushed Pivot tables, auto shapes, password protection support, etc that no other non-Microsoft office app has.

Cool, I wonder how long before they try to copy the new Office 12 features? and you say Microsoft don't inovate in one sentence and then admit that 95% of the features of a Microsoft product have been replicated by an open source competitor...can't the think of their own features

2K3 obviously has more features than a single server app, but with the exception of IRCX, it inlcudes nothing that can't be done as well or better with free software. And only Microsoft's own chat networks use IRCX.

Wooohooo! Let the sales teams fight it out and let the techies deliver to the best of their platforms abilities.

.NET is also an ECMA standard, and has opensource reimplementations, so yes, its "free" in all senses of the word.

Blimey something we agree on

It is. However, same sized site running on MSSQL or Jet is usually significantly slower. Postgres is the daddy for free, fast relation databases.

Postgres still out performed by Oracle and SQL (and has less features/support and skills, but I guess you get what you pay for.

Windows 2000 and Windows XP both got noticably slower to use from the final beta to the master, so I hold absolutely no hope for Vista.

Nice to have an open mind

You're posting from the UK. Most people actually used RISCOS in the UK for their first ever real "learning" on a computer (messing around the net doesn't count, I mean programming, etc), due to that being what education used for years. Most people use Windows as their home and work OS, but most people who actually know how to -use- their computer either started on or still use an alternate platform

Why doesn't messing around on the net count? Isn't that what most people do with computers? Writing letters etc.. surfing the net, a bit of online sales and spouting a bit of bollox on an online message board.

Most people who are considering using another OS use Windows not by choice but by being trapped.

Nearest I came to being trapped into Windows was keeping on OS/2 for a long time because there was a Windows app I needed that ran in Odin....

Most people use windows as they can use it, it's familiar, use value for money, its innovative and does what they need.

You've already pointed out the alternatives as did the other chap the point is that people make a choice to use the Windows platform I don't ever remember seeing Bill Gates holding a gun to anyones head.

 

[Cian]

I think we'll have to beg to differ here as I still consider Microsoft to be the most innovative company in the industry. A company that puts more into research than NASA each year and you come out with a statement like that. Take off your anti-microsoft shades and smell the seattle coffee.

I note you named nothing that Microsoft developed, just said they spend money researching. Yeah, photocopiers do cost a lot to run, I know

I don't know what gave you this impression but this simple isn't true. Put simply Apple is a Microsoft toy that has been bailed out twice from going under by Microsoft.

Bullshit, Microsoft have bought Apple share (totally different thing) on two occasions. Apple spent most of the 1990's losing money, but considering it money they already had, they didn't need bailing out. They've always had huge cash reserves (same with Sun Microsystems, and others), so 14 quarters of huge losses didn't push them even close to under.

Cool, I wonder how long before they try to copy the new Office 12 features? and you say Microsoft don't inovate in one sentence and then admit that 95% of the features of a Microsoft product have been replicated by an open source competitor...can't the think of their own features

Remember that Microsoft nicked -every single feature- of Office until about Office 2000, including having to buy a number of components in from third parties (Powerpoint, Frontpage and Visio come to mind), or just downright stealing others kit in terms of look and usage (Excel from 1-2-3, Word from err, everything - Wordstar, Wordpro, Wordperfect and Lotus at different stages. They even nicked that infuriating paperclip idea from guess what? StarOffice. Which is now OpenOffice. Its a star that gave the suggestions there, not a posessed paperclip, but same idea

Postgres still out performed by Oracle and SQL (and has less features/support and skills, but I guess you get what you pay for.

Postgres is fully SQL compliant, as well as having features neither MSSQL or MySQL have. True, not many people can use it compared to the other two, but it is faster, and in my own experience, its faster than MSSQL on the same box, and its also faster on UNIX than Windows...

Nice to have an open mind

What happens once happens again.

Why doesn't messing around on the net count? Isn't that what most people do with computers? Writing letters etc.. surfing the net, a bit of online sales and spouting a bit of bollox on an online message board.

Because that can be done on anything from a Sky Digibox to a certain series of Whirlpool fridges. Its not "using" a computer. You just need to look at all the cries for help with crapware we get on here to see that most people can't actually USE a computer

I don't ever remember seeing Bill Gates holding a gun to anyones head.

Ask all the unemployed AST staff, bankrupted when Microsoft jacked up the OEM licence prices to full retail price when AST starting offering Linux and BeOS. Ask the CEO of Hitachi why they stopped selling desktop PC's. No physical guns were pulled, but many many metaphorical ones have been, and have been fired.

 

[Reading Posh]

Are we all following this? There's a test in the morning.

 

[Another Berkshire Seagull]

Interesting views, anyway I'll drop this old picture into the thread and then get back to football