Teacher Strike

[Soulman]

There already is, you seen the size of some of those classes?

There was 28 in my class in the 70's, are there more now then?

 

[El Presidente]

No, 27 is University lecturers, a completely different career path.

We don't get 13 weeks holiday a year though....

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Your table top research is inaccurate for many reasons:

1) You have not taken into account the work (marking, preperation etc) done during the holidays.
2) You have used an average salary which takes into account the much bigger salaries of senior management and heads, the median salaray is even lower than this.
3) The people on the salary you have used as you average would be those in middle management. Their extra responibilities normally mean them working well over the average hours. I was in middle management in a state school before I emigrated. (just 4 years ago) and it was very rare that I worked as few as 50 hours. I was in school by 8 in the morning, I rarely left before 6 and I virtually always took work home with me.

Secondly, even if you're figures WERE correct. Teaching is a professional job that requires a full degree plus an extra year. I was close to the average you quoted after 11 years in teaching, 4 of those in middle management. For a post graduate profession with that level of experience and responisibilty the figure YOU'VE quoted is not a high wage.

And the figure I quoted for my salary was after 5 years training a further 6 months solid (not the two to three hours a week at uni but every day 8 to 5 in the classroom), getting licensing a further 6 weeks for each aircraft type approved on, constant retraining every year, assessments every year and oral examination by the CAA, and finally top of the increment scale within the company. Oh add to that the full responsibility for an the lives of those in the aircraft and those under it when its in the air . The starting salary for a newly trained engineer was £14000.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There already is, you seen the size of some of those classes?

Unfortunately the government doesn't seem to think that class size is a problem. Or the difference in ability within those classes, as their next hair-brained idea is to remove teaching assistants.

There is no teacher shortage in Brighton. It's a popular place to live and work, and jobs here have always been hard to come by. There are many Brighton based teachers throughout Sussex as well. But this will not always be the case, as young teachers will be priced out of living here. There are already problems in London and the Home Counties, with many schools finding it hard to fill their teaching positions.

 

[Soulman]

Not pleasant having people make assumptions about your line of work is it?

Does not bother me if the assumptions are fairly close, but your "half a brain" and "one or two months" statement was hilarious. I clearly realise how much and how long it takes to train to be a teacher, you clearly have had a stupid and insulting stab at how long it takes to become a proper time served Electrician.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There was 28 in my class in the 70's, are there more now then?

Rarely do class sizes get below 32 in my experience.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And the figure I quoted for my salary was after 5 years training a further 6 months solid (not the two to three hours a week at uni but every day 8 to 5 in the classroom), getting licensing a further 6 weeks for each aircraft type approved on, constant retraining every year, assessments every year and oral examination by the CAA, and finally top of the increment scale within the company. Oh add to that the full responsibility for an the lives of those in the aircraft and those under it when its in the air . The starting salary for a newly trained engineer was £14000.

Out of interest why did you turn to small-holding? This is a genuine question and not part of the teacher debate.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does not bother me if the assumptions are fairly close, but your "half a brain" and "one or two months" statement was hilarious. I clearly realise how much and how long it takes to train to be a teacher, you clearly have had a stupid and insulting stab at how long it takes to become a proper time served Electrician.

No, he was being deliberately offensive to prove a very valid point.

 

[Soulman]

Get a better job?
I get no hol pay, sick etc but I don't compare myself to teachers because my job is only important to me.

I'm not the one that keeps threatening to go out on strike, if i kept feeling so hard done by that i needed to keep threatening striking then i would get another job.
As i said, i have not been happy on certain jobs, iv'e looked around and got myself another job, and jacked the one i'm not happy in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm not the one that keeps threatening to go out on strike, if i kept feeling so hard done by that i needed to keep threatening striking then i would get another job.
As i said, i have not been happy on certain jobs, iv'e looked around and got myself another job, and jacked the one i'm not happy in.

Fine, good for you. But this is your approach. Other professions deal with things in a different way.

 

[Soulman]

Unfortunately the government doesn't seem to think that class size is a problem. Or the difference in ability within those classes, as their next hair-brained idea is to remove teaching assistants.

There is no teacher shortage in Brighton. It's a popular place to live and work, and jobs here have always been hard to come by. There are many Brighton based teachers throughout Sussex as well. But this will not always be the case, as young teachers will be priced out of living here. There are already problems in London and the Home Counties, with many schools finding it hard to fill their teaching positions.

So in other words, there seems plenty of teachers that will be happy and contented to have the job, it is just the cost of living that may drive them to other areas.
So that is an entirely different proposition to teachers feeling that they are being hard done by.

 

[Soulman]

Fine, good for you. But this is your approach. Other professions deal with things in a different way.

Fair enough, but if you are really so annoyed at how you are being treated then best to get out or not go into it in the first place.

 

[Danny-Boy]

How many of these "training days" do they have in state schools now? It seems every other month they just shut the schools down. They never needed them when I (moi) was at school.

 

[El Presidente]

Fair enough, but if you are really so annoyed at how you are being treated then best to get out or not go into it in the first place.

Does the government have a minister in relation to your profession?

If the answer is 'Yes', does that minister want to take your profession back to the 1950's?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So in other words, there seems plenty of teachers that will be happy and contented to have the job, it is just the cost of living that may drive them to other areas.
So that is an entirely different proposition to teachers feeling that they are being hard done by.

We work hard to gain the high level of qualifications that are necessary to be a teacher. We do this because we want to make a difference. We care about what we do, and most of us love working with children, and take enormous pleasure from helping them to progress and develop.

Many of us chose teaching when we could have gone into much better paid professions. My degree was in Civil Engineering, but I decided that I'd go into a profession that is substantially worse off, financially. I accepted that this was the case.

Since then, the government has targeted us again and again. You mentioned our pension scheme earlier - a scheme that has always been successful, and paid for itself. Yes, it is better than a lot of schemes, but its existance was one of the reasons that I, and many like me, decided that I could justify going into a profession that offered wages that were nowhere near those that I could have earned. And why should there be a race to the bottom? Other pension schemes need to be improved, if anything.

I love my job, and do it well. I don't want to do anything else. But I'd be lying if I told you that I hadn't seriously considered doing so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How many of these "training days" do they have in state schools now? It seems every other month they just shut the schools down. They never needed them when I (moi) was at school.

Oh for God's sake...read the thread.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does the government have a minister in relation to your profession?

If the answer is 'Yes', does that minister want to take your profession back to the 1950's?

This is a very valid question. And do electricians have to put up with the level of hatred and disrespect that some on this thread have shown towards teachers?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

So, in your profession someone who is NOT management gets paid more than someone in teaching who IS in management, and they can earn overtime on top of that whereas teachers do any extra hours (ckubs, school trips etc) for free.

Way to shoot your own argument down in flames.

Aircraft engineers have a somewhat more responsible job for starters. If they f**k up, people, lots of them, die. That responsibility has traditionally been reflected in the pay. Also every licensed engineer within his job role is expected to be responsible for the unlicensed engineers (more unlicensed engineers than licensed) and sign for their work so yes licensed engineers are in management roles. Added to which I have compared the hours without overtime because the 28 days holiday entitlement include any days, weekends or otherwise. BA's favourite shift was 7on 7off rotating earlies, lates, nights. Teachers work 5 days a week 39 weeks of the year. From that I've worked it out I would work 210 days a year having used up my leave to teachers 195 days, so not much in it. Working the shift pattern I've used was an 8 hour shift assuming a teacher too would work an 8 hour day approx. 5 of which would be teaching the rest planning marking whether at home, weekends or whatever, there's not much difference and that's my point. I've witnessed time and time again teachers arriving when I drop my kids off (all schools having 5 kids I've plenty of experience over the years 4 are now adults, one training to be a teacher!!) and leaving when I pick them up which equates to 7 hours, thus leaving them 1 hour short per day at school. Working at home as I expect they do make this up. Furthermore I know a few secondary school teachers and they have "free" periods during the day which allows them to get on with planning/marking.

So all in all the two examples are not that far apart and that is my point teachers are not a special case.

 

[Nibble]

There was 28 in my class in the 70's, are there more now then?

Yep.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Out of interest why did you turn to small-holding? This is a genuine question and not part of the teacher debate.

I was in middle management when 7/11 happened and over night the airline, BA shrunk by a third, loads of empty aircraft and routes cancelled, this left many in my position with no jobs, I took a package as did many, and I decided to try something different. I bought in total four pubs over the next 10 years but at the same time bought a smallholding. My wife was struck down with a very nasty illness, Lymphangioleiomyomatosis, (look it up not good) so have now given up the pubs to care for her.