[Politics] Stop the boats

[birthofanorange]

The law doesn't say they must. It is more sensible for an asylum seeker to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, especially if the alternative is paying a large amount of money for a dangerous and illegal boat trip

No the Law says they don't have to - it's quite simple.
What might seem easy to you, may not be for them.
As I say, get the Law changed, if you object.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are legal routes. Many people do arrive in the UK legally. Yes, the processing once here should be quicker, but the criminal gangs don't sell places on death-trap boats because the processing is slow! One reason for some (many?) of the boat passengers trying to get in illegally is to avoid processing.

There are no safe routes to claim asylum.
President Macron offered to have an asylum processing centre in France but Theresa May turned it down.
Don’t forget immigrant figures deliberately include university students here on a student visa, and leave again three or four years later. These were used to inflate immigration figures so they could deceive the public into thinking the problem is worse than it is.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The French authorities are responsible for policing and countering crimnal gangs on their soil, us leaving the EU doesn't change that. Also, EU membership doesn't seem to make any difference in stopping the hundreds of thousands illegally entering the EU then travelling across the EU or stopping thousands of deaths in the Med. Nice try blaming Brexit though!

Before Brexit we had the Dublin Agreement to return them but Johnson forgot to include that in the Withdrawal agreement.

 

[birthofanorange]

Before Brexit we had the Dublin Agreement to return them but Johnson forgot to include that in the Withdrawal agreement.

Indeed.

 

[Seagull58]

Yet another disadvantage of Brexit, one of the key arguments for which was that we would be able better to control immigration if we were free from the shackles of the EU. What a disingenuous claim that was. Immigration from the EU has certainly reduced but immigration from Non-EU countries has gone through the roof. What a shambles.

But isn't it illegal immigration from non-EU countries that has gone through the roof? Would you prefer if it was legal immigration that has gone through the roof or would you prefer if the illegal immigrants were apprehended and deported?

 

[The Grockle]

While agree the current plan isn't working I don't agree with the notion that offering safer passage or an easier way of seeking asylum from the country of origin would reduce the number sof boats.

Those making the journey are desperate but almost certainly not the most in need from their country. It costs many thousands of pounds make the journey and pay the gangs that provide the boats.

I'm far from against offering asylum but we need a robust and fair system. It doesn't sit well with me that we're taking young working age men while there are families with young children in Yemen in dire situations who desperately need our help, we should be stopping the boats and opening easier passage for those most in need.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times but aren't asylum seekers supposed to claim asylum in the first country they arrive at e.g. Italy, Greece, France etc.? If, on the other hand, they are economic migrants then they have the right to apply legally for residence but, as is the case when UK citizens apply in France, Spain, Portugal etc , they will be rejected if they don't have the financial means to support themselves.

No. The United Nations convention 1951 states asylum seekers can choose. Britain takes in a small proportion of refugees. Many of them have worked for Britain previously, or have family ties here.
Britain is well down the list per head of population.

 

[Seagull58]

Then get the Law changed, if you feel that strongly.

That's a ridiculous comment. It's simply not possible for me to "get the Law changed", even if I was a UK resident, which I'm not.

 

[birthofanorange]

That's a ridiculous comment. It's simply not possible for me to "get the Law changed", even if I was a UK resident, which I'm not.

Not really your problem then, is it?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But isn't it illegal immigration from non-EU countries that has gone through the roof? Would you prefer if it was legal immigration that has gone through the roof or would you prefer if the illegal immigrants were apprehended and deported?

It is not illegal to seek asylum.

The definition of illegal immigration is overstaying visas, or going into hiding on arrival and working secretly.
Those who claim asylum are not illegal.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's a ridiculous comment. It's simply not possible for me to "get the Law changed", even if I was a UK resident, which I'm not.

So, it’s nothing to do with you, putting it politely as you emigrated to Portugal.

 

[Seagull58]

No. The United Nations convention 1951 states asylum seekers can choose. Britain takes in a small proportion of refugees. Many of them have worked for Britain previously, or have family ties here.
Britain is well down the list per head of population.

How many of the people on the boats have worked for Britain or have family ties here? Wouldn't it be easier for them to get a visa legally in those circumstances?

 

[Seagull58]

It is not illegal to seek asylum.

The definition of illegal immigration is overstaying visas, or going into hiding on arrival and working secretly.
Those who claim asylum are not illegal.

I thought most of them were not claiming asylum on arrival but were effectively disappearing znd, therefore, here illegally. Maybe I am wrong?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What I want is irrelevant. Why should they travel through several safe countries before claiming asylum? If they are in fear of persecution wouldn't it be sensible to claim asylum as soon as possible in the first safe country? If they are economic migrants they might make a different decision.

Consider the Afghans who worked with the British, some serving as interpreters or flying, then abandoned and under death threats from Afghanistan. One pilot got here travelling over many countries, and was then threatened with deportation to Rwanda.

Afghan pilot left in limbo four months after plea to PM

The airman’s notice of deportation to Rwanda lapses after six months if there is no decision – impossible given that the whole Rwanda policy is held up in the courts

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Wokeworrier]

Before Brexit we had the Dublin Agreement to return them but Johnson forgot to include that in the Withdrawal agreement.

Here's a fun bit of research for you (or anyone else) to undertake ... find out what percentage of migrants we ever actually returned via that agreement and how many more migrants (net) did we take in from the EU

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought most of them were not claiming asylum on arrival but were effectively disappearing znd, therefore, here illegally. Maybe I am wrong?

Most of them? How do you count invisible people?

 

[Seagull58]

No the Law says they don't have to - it's quite simple.
What might seem easy to you, may not be for them.
As I say, get the Law changed, if you object.

Are you suggesting that for a refugee landing in Greece, Italy or France it is easier to travel to the Channel and pay to cross in a boat than to claim asylum in Italy, Greece or France? That seems highly unlikely.

 

[birthofanorange]

Here's a fun bit of research for you (or anyone else) to undertake ... find out what percentage of migrants we ever actually returned via that agreement and how many more migrants (net) did we take in from the EU

The process was there and now it's not. Good ol' Brexit, eh?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Are you suggesting that for a refugee landing in Greece, Italy or France it is easier to travel to the Channel and pay to cross in a boat than to claim asylum in Italy, Greece or France? That seems highly unlikely.

That would imply we're a soft touch, and I'm not having that.

 

[Seagull58]

So, it’s nothing to do with you, putting it politely as you emigrated to Portugal.

I'm still allowed to comment and express an opinion. Don't be so f***ing rude.
Fwiw, I have family and property in the UK and I am a UK citizen.