Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Hastings gull]

DOO train left a station this morning with the doors wide open, but the DfT and SASTA say this can never happen

I don't know if this can never happen or not, but presumably a driver is criminally negligent, if this was indeed the case.

 

[Ernest]

I don't know if this can never happen or not, but presumably a driver is criminally negligent, if this was indeed the case.

Thank you for seeing sense at last and pointing out all trains NEED a guard to ensure SAFE despatch

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No, you're correct. Aslef are resending the ballot papers today. Closing date is around the 25th November I think.

Is that just Southern drivers, or both Southern and Thameslink drivers? Sadly, what with 12-carriage Thameslink trains now in operation, a Southern-only drivers strike may not have much more impact on the Brighton-London mainline than at present. Tho Coastway East and West will obviously be completely snookered. Would be grand if the drivers could somehow focus on the Brighton-London mainline and give the local kids and workers who rely on the Coastway East and West services a bit of a compassionate break. They've suffered more than enough already shirley? They don't have a Thameslink alternative to fall back on.

 

[Hastings gull]

Thank you for seeing sense at last and pointing out all trains NEED a guard to ensure SAFE despatch

As you well know, I did not point out any such thing. Am I right in thinking that DOO trains do exist on other networks? If so, and irrespective of what one's views are, the person responsible is precisely that -RESPONSIBLE. You cannot claim, as you seem to be doing, that it was not my fault as I disagree with the policy and there should have been another person there.

 

[beorhthelm]

Thank you for seeing sense at last and pointing out all trains NEED a guard to ensure SAFE despatch

reckon you've missed something - there should be fail safe systems that prevent departure if the doors remain open.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Is that just Southern drivers, or both Southern and Thameslink drivers? Sadly, what with 12-carriage Thameslink trains now in operation, a Southern-only drivers strike may not have much more impact on the Brighton-London mainline than at present. Tho Coastway East and West will obviously be completely snookered. Would be grand if the drivers could somehow focus on the Brighton-London mainline and give the local kids and workers who rely on the Coastway East and West services a bit of a compassionate break. They've suffered more than enough already shirley? They don't have a Thameslink alternative to fall back on.

Sadly just Southern at the moment. And that is on the very big assumption the government don't put another legal block on it. I agree with all you wrote - but if the drivers do go on strike I wouldn't expect very much to run at all other than Thameslink.

 

[Hastings gull]

Is that just Southern drivers, or both Southern and Thameslink drivers? Sadly, what with 12-carriage Thameslink trains now in operation, a Southern-only drivers strike may not have much more impact on the Brighton-London mainline than at present. Tho Coastway East and West will obviously be completely snookered. Would be grand if the drivers could somehow focus on the Brighton-London mainline and give the local kids and workers who rely on the Coastway East and West services a bit of a compassionate break. They've suffered more than enough already shirley? They don't have a Thameslink alternative to fall back on.

But on other occasions you have consistently argued that the union is there to get the best deal for its members. By your logic, if they decide that an all-out strike throughout will create maximum disruption and pressure on the company by its loss of income, then so be it. Now you seem to want the opposite.

 

[beorhthelm]

... Would be grand if the drivers could somehow focus on the Brighton-London mainline and give the local kids and workers who rely on the Coastway East and West services a bit of a compassionate break. They've suffered more than enough already shirley? They don't have a Thameslink alternative to fall back on.

why on earth should they have compassion for the kids and workers on the East and West coast line, but not the kids and workers on the London mainline? your advocating a drivers strike to escalate the situation is increasing illogical when you recognise that inconvienence strike action needs to be avoided.

 

[dazzer6666]

Thank you for seeing sense at last and pointing out all trains NEED a guard to ensure SAFE despatch

What % of all trains in use in the UK have/don't have guards then ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

But on other occasions you have consistently argued that the union is there to get the best deal for its members. By your logic, if they decide that an all-out strike throughout will create maximum disruption and pressure on the company by its loss of income, then so be it. Now you seem to want the opposite.

The Coastway East and West passengers just tend to quietly accept their lot and suffer whatever scraps are thrown their way by way of totally inadequate replacement bus services. Either that or they just drive. The only real serious pressure to be applied is via shutdown of the Brighton-London line. That's where the most influential shouting gets done. Said it before, say it again, would rather see a short sharp total shutdown of the line - and subsequent reversal of government policy re supporting a failed franchise for purely ideological reasons - than this never-ending dreary dragging-down of everybody's lives just to provide a set of random shareholders with even more profit than they would otherwise have milked. It's no way to run a railway. Or a country.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

why on earth should they have compassion for the kids and workers on the East and West coast line, but not the kids and workers on the London mainline? your advocating a drivers strike to escalate the situation is increasing illogical when you recognise that inconvienence strike action needs to be avoided.

To put it bluntly, people inconvenienced on the Brighton-London mainline shout loudest, therefore pressure applied in that direction is most likely to bring things to a short sharp head. Coastway East/West services seem to have already been thrown onto some kind of unofficial Beeching-style scrapheap, as if those people's lives don't matter.

 

[Hastings gull]

The Coastway East and West passengers just tend to quietly accept their lot and suffer whatever scraps are thrown their way by way of totally inadequate replacement bus services. Either that or they just drive. The only real serious pressure to be applied is via shutdown of the Brighton-London line. That's where the most influential shouting gets done. Said it before, say it again, would rather see a short sharp total shutdown of the line - and subsequent reversal of government policy re supporting a failed franchise for purely ideological reasons - than this never-ending dreary dragging-down of everybody's lives just to provide a set of random shareholders with even more profit than they would otherwise have milked. It's no way to run a railway. Or a country.

You did not really answer the question about your inconsistency did you? Strange also, how one side does it all for ideological reasons, but you don't . .

 

[Postman Pat]

DOO train left a station this morning with the doors wide open, but the DfT and SASTA say this can never happen

Which station? Why aren't the RMT shouting this from the rooftops to make people understand the danger?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

[/B]

You did not really answer the question about your inconsistency did you? Strange also, how one side does it all for ideological reasons, but you don't . .

Not even aware of what the coherent question is, or where I've been inconsistent. Go on, pick out a single inconsistency. The floor is YOURS

 

[Hastings gull]

Which station? Why aren't the RMT shouting this from the rooftops to make people understand the danger?

We only have that paragon of virtue, Ernest's version, and we all know that he who would never stray from the total truth. Of course we do not know what happened, but IF the driver had been negligent, then I am sure that RMT will not be shouting too loudly, unless they can work it round to blame the situation.

 

[Hastings gull]

Not even aware of what the coherent question is, or where I've been inconsistent. Go on, pick out a single inconsistency. The floor is YOURS

This doesn't totally surprise me that you claim not to know the question, as you are the sort of all too confident poster, who would take little heed of what others say. Post 4242 was quite specific, as you know. Either you want the union to do its best for its members by putting as much pressure on the company as possible, or you don't. Putting pressure on the company is what you have always claimed is the purpose of the union - then you say well, give one side a rest and just concentrate on the other. Are you a commuter, by the way , and what do you think they feel about your assertion that trains on the Brighton Line should be targeted.

 

[beorhthelm]

Which station? Why aren't the RMT shouting this from the rooftops to make people understand the danger?

must be this, interesting responses.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This doesn't totally surprise me that you claim not to know the question, as you are the sort of all too confident poster, who would take little heed of what others say. Post 4242 was quite specific, as you know.

Post 4242 was quite incoherent. Any chance you could re-post it as a straight question? I'll happily answer it.

Are you a commuter, by the way , and what do you think they feel about your assertion that trains on the Brighton Line should be targeted.

I'm happily an ex-commuter on that line. Thank Christ. Won't even go up into London town anymore in the evenings if I can at all avoid it, due to the inevitable shittiness of getting home. And that's on non-strike days, when Southern only have to run the service they are contracted to run. In answer to your question, the Brighton line should be targeted simply because it's used by all of our local MPs to get to and from their place of work. Plus, up-f*cking the London-based economy tends to make London bosses and media outlets throw their weight around and exert extra pressure where it should rightfully be exerted.

 

[Arthur]

must be this, interesting responses.

In a case like that I don't see how having a guard on the train would have prevented that unless s/he was at the door in question.

 

[theboybilly]

Is that just Southern drivers, or both Southern and Thameslink drivers? Sadly, what with 12-carriage Thameslink trains now in operation, a Southern-only drivers strike may not have much more impact on the Brighton-London mainline than at present. Tho Coastway East and West will obviously be completely snookered. Would be grand if the drivers could somehow focus on the Brighton-London mainline and give the local kids and workers who rely on the Coastway East and West services a bit of a compassionate break. They've suffered more than enough already shirley? They don't have a Thameslink alternative to fall back on.

You see for me this is where the driver's argument falls down. You have two parts of this franchise (I've driven trains for both by the way) and can tell you it's no fun when you are on your own with a packed 8-car train being told by the signaller that, because of a fault with a safety system, I have to detrain my passengers at Selhurst and take the empty train to Selhurst Depot. This would have left about 800 very angry people with no more direct services through the City in the rush-hour and having to circulate via Victoria or going back to East Croydon.
But Thameslink drivers did and still do run DOO trains in even longer formations. DOO? I don't agree with it as I think having another person to deal with the needs of passengers in an incident while I (the Driver) deal with the operational side of things is the best solution. Drivers, when DOO was introduced, were quite happy to take the extra pay involved in working a shift involving DOO trains. In fact many would go out of their way (after working a non-DOO shift) to work a DOO train after their shift had ended to get both the extra time AND the DOO payment. But that was in the days when our salary, such as it was, was made up of many add-ons like attendance allowance, mileage and DOO. Now drivers have all their pay (except perhaps London Weighting) consolidated into a fixed salary (plus overtime) So DOO has even less appeal. I could see this issue and it's consequences a mile off - as soon as Southern got the franchise. But both parties , especially the unions, have been caught off-guard. Having 12-car trains rattling quite merrily up and down the BML in Thameslink livery with the sanction of Aslef surely negates their argument to Southern asking the same thing for them. And I say that with a total dislike for Southern.