The Tory party are the ones which took the discipline out of schools in the 1980's which has gone a long way to causing the problems with the youngsters we have now, but to hear them constantly sniping at the government you'd think they were totally blameless.
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Sorry to get political on an Albion site but.....
- Thread starter Harty
- Start date
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,721
Harty in sensible comment shock
Actually, you'll have to remind me me - how did they take the discipline out of schools ?
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
That's some of it, but the rest of it lies with the truely crap parenting that goes on. Round here the kids swear scream, hit, and all other sorts of crap, in full view of the parents, and they do nothing about it. An 11 year old round here has been taken away by the police numerous times for a number of offences, and the parents don't give a flyer.
dougdeep
New member
How can you blame a political party? Stick to football Harty.
But our problem-youngsters is completely over-exagerated.
I, myself, am one of those youngsters. Yes I get drunk, in fact I did last night. But that doesn't mean I am anti-social. I was in a house close to my home and did not go out on the streets.
These things are bought into the lime-light whereas they weren't in previous generations. I talk to adults who did everything we do but there wasn't mass-media and it wasn't on the front-page on newspapers because the older generations want to gratify themslves by exagerating the teenage generations plight.
Perhaps it is an insecurity. Every generation snipes at the next generation, perhaps to try to feel superior. What are these problems of today?
I am no socialist and believe in individual responsibility but who bought up these children? And therein lies the problem.
I do not believe it is, the classic cliche, ' I blame the parents' but they do have a role to play. Discipline in schools. School appears to be a focal point of the older generation, 'exams are getting easier', ' schools are too soft'. Both of which, are rubbish.
I do not believe exams are getting easier whatsoever. Teaching is getting better. I take triples science and we are having to study work which our teacher did at degree level, he is very sceptical as to why we have to learn it. In History we do A-level questions!
Schools getting softer. I am unsure about this personally. In some cases, yes, they are too soft. But they are only too soft because it is the parents which complain if they are strict! School has turned into a nanny-state. Kids are scared to say the word 'black' and if you don't 'love and respect' someone you can get done for bullying no questions asked, you barely get a chance to defend yourself. The work load is increasing which is perhaps why it appears they are soft on people who do not do the work.
Bloody hell I've typed a lot this time in the morning.
I, myself, am one of those youngsters. Yes I get drunk, in fact I did last night. But that doesn't mean I am anti-social. I was in a house close to my home and did not go out on the streets.
These things are bought into the lime-light whereas they weren't in previous generations. I talk to adults who did everything we do but there wasn't mass-media and it wasn't on the front-page on newspapers because the older generations want to gratify themslves by exagerating the teenage generations plight.
Perhaps it is an insecurity. Every generation snipes at the next generation, perhaps to try to feel superior. What are these problems of today?
I am no socialist and believe in individual responsibility but who bought up these children? And therein lies the problem.
I do not believe it is, the classic cliche, ' I blame the parents' but they do have a role to play. Discipline in schools. School appears to be a focal point of the older generation, 'exams are getting easier', ' schools are too soft'. Both of which, are rubbish.
I do not believe exams are getting easier whatsoever. Teaching is getting better. I take triples science and we are having to study work which our teacher did at degree level, he is very sceptical as to why we have to learn it. In History we do A-level questions!
Schools getting softer. I am unsure about this personally. In some cases, yes, they are too soft. But they are only too soft because it is the parents which complain if they are strict! School has turned into a nanny-state. Kids are scared to say the word 'black' and if you don't 'love and respect' someone you can get done for bullying no questions asked, you barely get a chance to defend yourself. The work load is increasing which is perhaps why it appears they are soft on people who do not do the work.
Bloody hell I've typed a lot this time in the morning.
tedebear
Legal Alien
Fair point Harty - I'd like however to see the issue being not who caused it - but how to fix it. There isn't any point laying blame at anyones feet - which is the constant problem with the opposition - sadly in my recent Life in the UK test it lists the objective of the opposition to criticise the government!! What a daft and outdated idea which obviously gives rise to the continual bickering and blame laying we now get on the news everyday. A broad generalisation of what the opposition should be doing. Don't get me wrong - criticism is constructive and can be useful, but it shouldn't be the only aim.
Lets get out of the blame culture and into the agreeing with what we should be doing about it. Surely both parties can agree that parents (as single parents, in families or whatever structure they are living within) need to be reminded/re-taught exactly how to do just that - to parent.
withdeanwombat
Well-known member
It all started when capital punishment was banned in primary schools.
Singapore is where my mum grew up and, sadly, they have not been made an MEDC because of their capital punishment. But Singapore have got it right I think. The community knows it relies on tourism and does not want a bad reputation as a crime capital so before the police get to a criminal often the people of Singapore will set about putting them to justice. As a result their crime rates are very low.
If we bought back the kane in England it could have a similar effect. However, it is so open to abuse because it's done on an individual level and is quite subjective.
If we bought back the kane in England it could have a similar effect. However, it is so open to abuse because it's done on an individual level and is quite subjective.
NMH
Banned
You'd be right to say that the previous generation pass on their problems to their kids, and that the tories have NO place to talk now.
"blameless", as you intimate, doesn't take the blame completely out of Labour's hands, but it's true that the tories are in NO place to talk shit about the incumbent party.
These records would be good for the liberals to use, to gain some headway for themselves.
I watched a program the other day hot on the heels of the widow accusing parents for errant teens, where a father seriously admitted he "can't do anything to control kids once they leave the house, just can't be responsible for what they're up to when out of his sight" (paraphrasing the message, but that was his 'take' on things).
This was a prime example of a parent who IS to blame, because he has reliquished power and control of his own offspring.
Who knows, maybe it's down to bad marriages, where parents undermine each other in front of the kids, thus disabling their own control and their only possible allie, in the important duty of bringing kids up? Chav parents aren't going to be heading for marriage guidance councilor to rectify that situation, so, many ships are doomed to be sunk by the 'Captain and First Mate'!
The future might have a 'Sun City' situation, wherein whole areas will have to become off limits for certain tribes, and they will war against their own kind outside of the city fences and walls.
Nemesis
SERIOUSLY!
I don't think we're Abel to.
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
I agree with you, however the minority of kids who make all the noise are heard the most.
Brilliant post!
dougdeep
New member
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Harty buyt what you have said is what the problem is - blame culture as in you blame.
Everyone in this society feels it is their duty to blame something or someone else for their problems be it discipline, obeisity, bullying, binge drinking etc etc etc
Until people actually do something for themselves then nothing will happen.
Everyone in this society feels it is their duty to blame something or someone else for their problems be it discipline, obeisity, bullying, binge drinking etc etc etc
Until people actually do something for themselves then nothing will happen.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Good point about Singapore, I spent a few days there in autumn of 03, to be honest it wasn't as clinically clean as I had been expected to believe...however it was one of very few cities that I have been happy to wander around at any time of the day and feel completely safe (the safe ones have included places like Toronto and Ottawa).
Not sure about bringing back the cane, I was caned at school when I was 11, if anything it just taught me to be more careful if I did something wrong and to reduce the chances of being caught...also to be careful who I trusted as I was one of those grassed on by the leader in our miscreant acts.
Not sure about bringing back the cane, I was caned at school when I was 11, if anything it just taught me to be more careful if I did something wrong and to reduce the chances of being caught...also to be careful who I trusted as I was one of those grassed on by the leader in our miscreant acts.
Indeed, but minorities rule society now. And that gets my back up.
Homosexuals, immigrants and travellers - none of whom I have any problem with, are some of the minorities who are pussy-footed around relentlessly. This is part of the reason I am in favour or the Queen. What does it mean to be British anymore?
Public places, in some areas, aren't allowed to put England flags up during sporting times, Christmas lights were not allowed in a town/city near-by where I live. We are a Christian country and we are English - we should be allowed those things. I am no BNP member because I think immigrants should be allowed into the country (in particular circumstances) but British-ness has evaporated.
I hate to use this argument because I think it is a very over-stretched one but what about in the war. Soldiers fought for the English flag, we're not allowed to raise them anymore, on Christmas day they played a game of football with other soldiers, Christmas decorations are band from public places in some areas.
Homosexuals, immigrants and travellers - none of whom I have any problem with, are some of the minorities who are pussy-footed around relentlessly. This is part of the reason I am in favour or the Queen. What does it mean to be British anymore?
Public places, in some areas, aren't allowed to put England flags up during sporting times, Christmas lights were not allowed in a town/city near-by where I live. We are a Christian country and we are English - we should be allowed those things. I am no BNP member because I think immigrants should be allowed into the country (in particular circumstances) but British-ness has evaporated.
I hate to use this argument because I think it is a very over-stretched one but what about in the war. Soldiers fought for the English flag, we're not allowed to raise them anymore, on Christmas day they played a game of football with other soldiers, Christmas decorations are band from public places in some areas.
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
No drug problem in Singapore...all the pushers get machine gunned, perhaps we should be looking at them as role models.
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
Ah-ha. Now THIS is where we may come a cropper.
What is "Britishness"? Our queen is German, her husband is Greek. The Christmas Tree was introcuced by Queen Victoria's husband, a German. The country has based itself on Christianity, a religion based in the middle east.
How do we "pussy foot" ourselves around gay people, migrants, and travellers, are we not allowed to be chummy with them? Are gay people not "british"? The pink flag that is used by gay people happens to have the union flag on it.
ben andrews' girlfriend
Nurse Laura
I should also state that nearly everything we wear, and what we watched is wither made, or designed by America
Someone mentioned previously about how safe they felt.
Whe my Mum was growing up in Singapore she could go out at whatever time and walk home on her own (though because of the values of society very seldom was she not accompanied) and was perfectly safe!
There is a blame culture in society today, no-one will accept responsibility without Injury-Lawyers-For-You. That is why I don't blame youths problem solely on the government or the parents. Personal responsibility has to provail. That is why, in my opinion, being bought up in a rascist environment is not a requisite for being rascist. Prejudices are learnt so can be unlearnt if you want to. But parenting is a huge part of socities shaping of their youth.
Whe my Mum was growing up in Singapore she could go out at whatever time and walk home on her own (though because of the values of society very seldom was she not accompanied) and was perfectly safe!
There is a blame culture in society today, no-one will accept responsibility without Injury-Lawyers-For-You. That is why I don't blame youths problem solely on the government or the parents. Personal responsibility has to provail. That is why, in my opinion, being bought up in a rascist environment is not a requisite for being rascist. Prejudices are learnt so can be unlearnt if you want to. But parenting is a huge part of socities shaping of their youth.