solar panels?

[drew]

A house on the Hassocks side of Hurstpierpoint has its front-facing roof covered in them. I don't know what they're saving in energy bills but a local estate agent told me that as things stand they've wiped £50k off the value of their house. Puts the economics of it into perspective.

And of course you have to believe everything an estate agent says. However, even if they are right, you don't fit panels if you are intending to move in anything less than about 7 years.

Was rather dubious of the benefits of solar PV but did a lot of research and eventually had a 10 panel 2.4kw Panasonic system installed last December, costing £8.6k, although this also included an upgrade of our fuseboard. We came to the conclusion that to do nothing while utility costs are spiralling 'was not an option'.

If it helps your deliberations the figures in the first quarter as well as generating over 300kwh electricity gave us a £150 FIT payment. Plus we are waiting for the the first electricity bill to see how much our normal bill has reduced by. So far in the second quarter we are already another 500 kwh up, and inspite of the naff weather too. It is noticeable just how much faster it generates as the days got longer and the sun is higher in the sky. Watching the read outs on the little bluetooth monitor is addictive as the year progresses. I conservatively estimate that over 12 months we will generate at least 1600 kwh and around £750 FIT income. If we ever get a proper summer and autumn it should be even better than that. So the pay back will be around 10 years and quite possibly less. May even cover a replacement inverter if we are unlucky to need one.

I have to say the installer we selected was excellent not only with the installation but also the comprehensive paperwork and EON (our FIT provider) have been spot on too.

When seeking quotes I would recommend avoiding installers who send an expensive salesman along for an initial visit as this is a waste of your time and will add his fee to the quote. Only go for installers who sends a technically qualified surveyor to give you a proper written costed spec.. Apart from having the right accreditations I would strongly recommend going for an installer with a strong portfolio of past local installations and testimonials from customers. Our installer actually provided examples for us to go and inspect.

Finally we have become accustomed to having the PV panels on the roof, they are not a thing of beauty but being tucked between dormers are fairly discrete without the performance being impaired. I would seriously think about other forms of energy generation such as solar thermal or air source heating, especially if the Govt finds the money to create financial incentives.

Agree about the installers. We had three firms to quote, one of which got the postcode wrong and ended up in Reading rather than Burgess Hill! Ended up using a company in Burgess Hill, PDP, recommended by a friend and had no problem.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

mistake. the technology will be outdated within a matter of years. the current tech loses efficiency over time meaning you'll be generating less electricity as every year passes. plus they're hideous.

i fit them as a living, and theres no way there as efficient as there sold to be... waste of money!!!!

 

[brunswick]

do not do it - it is a scam.


1) they own your roof
2) there is hardly any sun in england
3) the power YOU collect goes back to the grid and you still get bills (tho discounted...wooo).
4) house price goes down


better is to get an ISOLATED good £700 system and use this for all things under 300W or so, and stop using luxury items like spin dryers, and 3000w kettles.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

What about the cost of insurance, surely it must put your building insurance up ?

You will lose any money you made in costs to remove and refit if you have any work done to the roof.

 

[blockhseagull]

Also if you own an old property to get the feed in tariffs soon you will need to make sure you upgrade your insulation as the energy efficiency of your property must be at least grade D

However due to the massive decrease in solar installs recently many installers will upgrade both loft and cavity insulation for free

 

[beorhthelm]

do not do it - it is a scam.

what is? there are dozens of companies offering different services. some will fit it for free and you'll get some residual savings but most are simple installation that you gain all the FIT and discounted energy use from. we get plenty enough sun in UK to drive these systems, even under cloud theres some power generation, and the power you generate goes to the grid and YOU get paid for it. the nearest to a "scam" i see is you have to have a registered person do the install for the FIT, which means its more expensive than a isolated system. having a isolated system is great too, why stop at 300W though?

 

[Chinster]

There seems to be a lot of people on here that really don't have a clue what their talking about!
We install PV along with other renewable technologies. There are a lot of companies out there that will sell you the cheapest panel on the market and claim that it the best thing since sliced bread and charge a top rate for them. When you run the data through a pro software program such as PV sol the cheap panels will perform far less efficiently than some of the top brands on the market. Don't be fooled by brand names either. Sharp for instance is a recognisable brand name but their panels are poor quality! Rates are due to be cut again in July, so you still have a bit of time to make decision on what you want to do. You will need to get an EPC (energy performance certificate) done on your property before you fit the panels. This will give you an energy rating on your house, it will need to be a D rating or above to be able to claim the full tariff. If you need advice pm me and i'll give you my number.

 

[matthew]

Why doesn't the amex have them? It gets so much sun!

 

[00snook]

Do you work for the Daily Mail?

 

[brunswick]

what is? there are dozens of companies offering different services. some will fit it for free and you'll get some residual savings but most are simple installation that you gain all the FIT and discounted energy use from. we get plenty enough sun in UK to drive these systems, even under cloud theres some power generation, and the power you generate goes to the grid and YOU get paid for it. the nearest to a "scam" i see is you have to have a registered person do the install for the FIT, which means its more expensive than a isolated system. having a isolated system is great too, why stop at 300W though?

the fact the own the lease on your roof is a scam, and the fact you are basically doing their job for them, and STILL having to pay (tho discounted). it looks really ugly too.

300W and less means that you can go cheap on the regulator and inverter. Over 1000w on an isolated system means you really up the price on regulator, inverter, and batteries. ppl talk about panels all the time, but the key is feeding the batteries efficiently and then holding it.

solarpaneltalk.com forum has some experts for those seeking the technicals, and i know a little about smaller systems if anyone wants to pm.

 

[beorhthelm]

... Sharp for instance is a recognisable brand name but their panels are poor quality!

really? i had the impression they were well respected. or is this they have good power output but the build quality is poor? i recall they are constructed under licence in the UK so were popular at first because they didnt have import tariffs and sold as made in Britian.

So what are the good brands? and also, why arent there (at least i've not seen them when i looked) MCS qualified engineers offering a service to just install the Grid Tie and sign off an install for FIT? i can get a 2.1KW system for £3600 or 3.3KW system for £5500 (Solar Knive panels, any good) from Navitron, which is substanitally less that a fitted system.

 

[beorhthelm]

the fact the own the lease on your roof is a scam, and the fact you are basically doing their job for them, and STILL having to pay (tho discounted). it looks really ugly too.

you can install systems yourself and there is no lease, its your system. if you are buying a subsidised system and a lease is part of that, its in black and white where the scam? the appearence is subjective, i not going to say they look beautifull, hardly ugly. they raise mild indifference for me, the only reason i note them at all is rethinking whether or note to install them (cant afford up front and not about to take a loan for one).

 

[robbobhafc]

really? i had the impression they were well respected. or is this they have good power output but the build quality is poor? i recall they are constructed under licence in the UK so were popular at first because they didnt have import tariffs and sold as made in Britian.

So what are the good brands? and also, why arent there (at least i've not seen them when i looked) MCS qualified engineers offering a service to just install the Grid Tie and sign off an install for FIT? i can get a 2.1KW system for £3600 or 3.3KW system for £5500 (Solar Knive panels, any good) from Navitron, which is substanitally less that a fitted system.

Sharp are ok but not great IMO they do claim to me made in the uk but effectively they just assembled in wrexham, I woul say they are te cheapist brand name that everyone knows

Don't know much about the knive panel but if looking for a relatively cheap panel I would try suntech would think you could fit your self for similar prices but will be hard to find someone to sign off. However If you purchase the system yourself you will be pay 20% vat, but if you get it via the installer they will charge 5% on the whole lot

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Two further observations:

1. There seems to be confusion among some posters about the merits of a) buying PV systems and getting the full benefits of both electricity generation and the FIT payments compared to b) renting out your roof, getting the electricity but not the FIT payment etc. There has beem some adverse publicity of the latter affecting house values or complicating future house sales because mortgage lenders don't like another party having an interest in the property and also no guarantee that future buyer would take over the contract. Most advice suggests that having solar PV should mainly be considered by punters not thinking of moving house for 10-15 years.

2. When looking into having solar PV and talking to one or two contacts in the trade it did seem possible to reduce the initial cost by obtaining an import licence and purchasing the kit in Germany where it is cheaper and getting an accredited engineer to commission and certify the system. In theory this should save a couple of £k but with the price of systems now coming down so rapidly the case for this is less obvious.

3. Finally for someone to post that solar PV is a scam seems disingenuous given that the technology is proven (including other mid/north European countries, whereas the UK is relatively slow in adopting this) and becoming far more cost effective as costs reduce. Of course the longer you leave getting involved means the FIT payments are less but as stated before with utility costs spiralling 'to do nothing is not an option'. If you have the spare cash to invest in a system you'll get at least the return you would get from meagre savings rate.

 

[brunswick]

you can install systems yourself and there is no lease, its your system. if you are buying a subsidised system and a lease is part of that, its in black and white where the scam? the appearence is subjective, i not going to say they look beautifull, hardly ugly. they raise mild indifference for me, the only reason i note them at all is rethinking whether or note to install them (cant afford up front and not about to take a loan for one).

small systems can be cheap:
2 x sharp 48V 360W panels > mppt charge controller down to 12v at 35a > caravan boat style battery 350a/h > 600w inverter > all about 700/800.....but after 4 days of dark cloud not so good.

if i was on grid and looking to make things cheaper i would just rip out everything that is high wattage such as the new style toasters and kettles, and use gas bottles for cooking. a gas bottle is about £20 and lasts a few months.

its a mare, as in the uk elec and gas is soo expensive, that i think you can agree has some wiffs of a scam.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I agree - the real 'scam' is not solar PV but the tariffs charged by the big utility companies for electricity, gas, water and oil - and the way in which they extract excessive payments that leave you in credit whilst they have the surplus payment sitting in their account, not yours.

Mrs SoC is very proactive in playing the companies off against each other and negotiating better deals as soon as possible, which helps to manage the costs. Even so, it is surprising just how stealthily they are able to accrue a credit balance - but we are wise to this and get an adjustment. I wonder how many punters bother to do this.

This is another reason to take some control over your situation and generate as much electricity, heat and hot water yourself using 'free' sunlight or air/ground temperatures rather just be held to ransome by the utilities. Plus make the property as efficient as possible to reduce your dependence on expensive fuels.

 

[Chinster]

really? i had the impression they were well respected. or is this they have good power output but the build quality is poor? i recall they are constructed under licence in the UK so were popular at first because they didnt have import tariffs and sold as made in Britian.

So what are the good brands? and also, why arent there (at least i've not seen them when i looked) MCS qualified engineers offering a service to just install the Grid Tie and sign off an install for FIT? i can get a 2.1KW system for £3600 or 3.3KW system for £5500 (Solar Knive panels, any good) from Navitron, which is substanitally less that a fitted system.

We we be very wary about signing off a system that had been installed by someone else! Its no different really than fitting your own boiler and having a gas safe engineer to sign it off, its just not going to happen. Anyone fitting PV has to be MCS accredited and it involves a hell of a lot of paperwork and an inspection of work every year. Unless its good money, its just not worth doing sign offs.

 

[finlaych]

My dad runs a business selling and installing them

Southern Renewables

 

[Papak]

The reason those who have them think they're so great is because the FIT is being subsidised by all energy users.

If your house is ugly go ahead and do it. It might make it look nicer.

I would imagine you could save more money by learning how to be more energy efficient.

 

[drew]

The reason those who have them think they're so great is because the FIT is being subsidised by all energy users.

If your house is ugly go ahead and do it. It might make it look nicer.

I would imagine you could save more money by learning how to be more energy efficient.

There's a green eyed yellow monster etc etc. Yes, I've got solar panels and would agree that it is a scam. Except of course it's a scam in my favour because the whole point of the scheme is to encourage renewable energy and that wouldn't work if there was no incentive. As for your absurd comment regarding efficiency, what energy efficient measures have you taken? I would also suggest that most people who have solar panels become more energy conscious and conserve because of that.