Snow v GDP

[Tricky Dicky]

This. Or at the very least get the information out quickly to all.

In this digital age there is no need for the example of people turning up at a train station: "Are there any trains?" "Dunno maybe, maybe not, think so, maybe a bit later, or alot later, not sure"

If no trains then say NO TRAINS.

Plus saying one thing on websites and staff saying something else is absolutely criminal in this day and age.

I have said this many times on here - there is NO excuse these days given the plethora of ways of disseminating info.

Without the snow, on a normal day on my Sohreham/London commute, the trains are not advertised as "late" until after their departure time, when presumably people know they're going to be late/cancelled maybe up to an hour before that - don't they KNOW where their trains are ?? No excuse.

 

[beorhthelm]

its not so simple. the £1bn or whatever cost is largly virtual costs created by accountants. on the other hand, spending £1bn on a fleet of snow ploughs that will be idle for 50 weeks of the year is much more real and will mean you, the tax payer, will have to pay for it.

moaning at airports is a bit unfair, they are a luxury mode of transport and airports the world from Chicago, to Zurich to Moscow have closures when 7 inches dumps in half and hour or the runway gets frozen. Its pretty damn difficult to keep 2 miles of tarmac ice free in -5 and snow. or do you want to risk a takeoff/landing at 200mph on a partially deiced runway? BA closed flights to stop people going to the airport when they knew it would go wrong, lots of other airlines have had their customers sat in the terminal all weekend.

the rails theres little excuse, they just dont seem to have developed solutions to what is more simple problem of keeping points de-iced and third line clean.

and the passing on of information is appaling in the age of mobile telecoms and internet.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

At the first sight of snow BA cancelled all flights to all short haul destinations on Saturday, including my flght to Berlin. Lufthansa on the other hand were still flying. Whilst other countries had problems they still tried. BA simply gave up as soon as they could. They're an embarrassment.

True, but BA have hundreds of flights operating out of Heathrow and Gatwick, whereas Lufthansa only have a few. The airlines are also, to some extent, at the mercy of the airport authorities, who are in turn at the mercy of the weather. It takes 40 minutes to properly de-ice the runway at Gatwick, and that's only if it's not flumping it down anyway all the time they're doing it. All the time they're de-icing it, the runway is out of service, which is why they're not doing it around the clock. The landing/take off speed of an aircraft is over 100mph, so they can't exactly take chances.

Secondly, the aircraft themselves have to be kept clear of ice. What happened a lot at the weekend was that aircraft were ready to go, then it started flumping down and the runway closed for de-icing, then by the time that's clear half the aircraft need de-icing again because they're covered in snow, ones that have remained clear get stuck behind ones that have to go back to stand, and it goes around in circles.

Just looking at today's news, Paris Charles De Gaulle have cancelled up to 40% of flights, Amsterdam Schiphol has binned "dozens", and Frankfurt cancelled 540 yesterday afternoon. Pisa has been closed all weekend, and NBC report that Copenhagen- who you might think would be FAR better prepared than us, had plenty of cancellations due to the conditions, and trains running between Denmark and Sweden have been heavily disrupted or cancelled.

 

[Gwylan]

I agree to a point but the general UK response to a bit of bad weather is to give up. As someone pointed out on here, when we had the last period of snow Southern were still running a reduced service and stopping all services at 10pm 4 days after the snow had cleared and temps were above 0. And as Boris pointed out...they could do a lot more and should rise to challenges...not shrink.

I think this is the point. There's no point struggling against extreme weather but what we have is complete meltdown when there's a flurry of snow. My kids' school was closed in the last spell when there was about half a centimetre of snow on the ground, I remember terrific snowball fights when I went to school, the idea that such a light covering would close the school would be laughed at.

But it's not just schools. In the last snowfall, I walked to Sainsbury's as there were no buses running along Lewes Road. Yet the road was clear of snow and ice as it had snow ploughs on it (two passed me as I walking) and cars and lorries were driving OK. And, of course, Sainsbury's was open.

Yes, if there's half a metre of snow and temperatures below - 10 but a small fall and - 3 or - 4 is not really exceptional in a UK winter but we seem to act as if we're stuck in Stalingrad with the German's strafing us.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I just think that there tends to be a mentality in this country that we all have the right to be able to to whatever we want to do, whenever we want to do it, and if anything happens to get in the way of that, then SOMEONE MUST BE TO BLAME.

Man has been losing battles to nature for thousands of years, it's funny how only in recent years we seem to think we have a right to triumph, and get the right hump if we (ie someone else) fail.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

From France24: sound familiar?

After Parisian snow gridlock, the blame game begins The harsh winter weather in Paris has settled down, but Prime Minister François Fillon set off a mini-storm of his own Thursday by blaming France’s national weather service for the gridlock during Wednesday’s uncommonly heavy snowfall. The severe winter weather in Paris had calmed considerably by Friday morning, but another mini-storm was already brewing.

French Prime Minister François Fillon set off a small controversy Thursday by appearing to blame France’s national weather service for the gridlock that brought the Paris area to a standstill on Wednesday during an uncommonly heavy snowfall.

Fillon, one of the more popular members of President Nicolas Sarkozy’s administration, levelled the criticism while on an official visit in Russia. He said the French meteorological organization Météo France “had not anticipated this snowy episode, or not its intensity, in any case” and as a result “the services in charge of handling snowfall were caught by surprise.”

‘Everyone is stunned’

Météo France defended itself Friday, releasing a statement in which it said: “It is still very difficult, despite constant progress in meteorological science, to predict the exact quantities that will fall and how much the snow will stick to the ground.” A spokesperson for the weather service's union, Emmanuel Celhay, was firmer in his disagreement, telling Agence France: “Everyone is stunned, rather angry, and in total incomprehension of this declaration.”

On Tuesday afternoon, the service had sent out a severe weather alert for the Paris area for the following day. But it was not the highest-level alert. The storm ended up shutting Charles de Gaulle-Roissy airport, paralysing the Paris bus network and closing down the Eiffel Tower for a day. Many people were forced to forgo the warmth of their own beds, spending the night in airports, on the road or even at the workplace while waiting for the weather to clear up.

The government has found itself on the defensive since the storm, as drivers reported complaints that there had not been enough salt put on the roads and that information and assistance had been scarce. Though Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux on Wednesday denied that the situation could be characterised as “a mess”, French Transport Minister Thierry Mariani later called a meeting for Friday to examine France’s handling of the weather.

Meanwhile, French headlines on Friday skewered Fillon for his “verbal blunder”. Certain members of the Socialist Party were even harsher. Former presidential candidate Ségolène Royal appeared on French television Friday morning to denounce the government’s response to the weather. “It wasn’t a mess that we witnessed; it was chaos,” she said, adding that the government had displayed a “mix of guilty inertia, indifference and incompetence”.

Then, targeting Fillon specifically, she declared: “What’s worse in this matter is that they are passing off the responsibility to the public services.”

Even Fillon’s own camp has been scrambling to downplay the prime minister’s swipe at the national weather service. As one government source told Agence France Presse: “François Fillon was a bit hard on Météo France. His statement went beyond what he meant to say.”

 

[Djmiles]

But that's not "extra" business overall though is it ? Presumably that is just people shopping there rather than somewhere else, or stocking up instead of shopping later.

It's "extra" for us though! I see your point, but we love it. May the travel chaos continue I say!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I just think that there tends to be a mentality in this country that we all have the right to be able to to whatever we want to do, whenever we want to do it, and if anything happens to get in the way of that, then SOMEONE MUST BE TO BLAME.

Man has been losing battles to nature for thousands of years, it's funny how only in recent years we seem to think we have a right to triumph, and get the right hump if we (ie someone else) fail.

I'm prepared to admit that sometimes nature wins the battles and there is nothing we can do. But I equally think companies could do a lot more before throwing in the towel. My example of the reduced service and 10pm rail curfew 4 days after the last bad weather is an example.

If Adam El-Abd was running BA I'd be in Berlin now.

 

[Gwylan]

From France24: sound familiar?

After Parisian snow gridlock, the blame game begins The harsh winter weather in Paris has settled down, but Prime Minister François Fillon set off a mini-storm of his own Thursday by blaming France’s national weather service for the gridlock during Wednesday’s uncommonly heavy snowfall. ]

Or how the super-efficient Germans are coping.

Winter-Chaos legt Deutschland lahm: LKW-Fahrverbote, Hunderte Flüge abgesagt, Bahnmitarbeiter stirbt beim Enteisen einer Weiche - News - Bild.de

"Germany sinks into white chaos
...
More than a 100 planes stranded at Tegel airport..."

EDIT: Just seen the really important Bild story -"the ugliest dog in the world comes from England"

Echt schräg: Hässlichster Hund der Welt kommt aus England - News - Bild.de

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I'm prepared to admit that sometimes nature wins the battles and there is nothing we can do. But I equally think companies could do a lot more before throwing in the towel. My example of the reduced service and 10pm rail curfew 4 days after the last bad weather is an example.

If Adam El-Abd was running BA I'd be in Berlin now.

I heard at the start of the month that the biggest problem with the trains is that most of ours in the South East run on the electrified 3rd rail principle (as opposed to an overhead cable). They were saying on the news that when the third rail gets ice on it, conductivity can be significantly reduced and the trains halt. I got a train down to Brighton on Friday evening and it was clearly noticeable that every time we pulled out of a station, the wheels were slipping and the train juddering.

But it would be too expensive for Network Rail to replace the system, so we have to put up with it

 

[Gwylan]

I heard at the start of the month that the biggest problem with the trains is that most of ours in the South East run on the electrified 3rd rail principle (as opposed to an overhead cable). They were saying on the news that when the third rail gets ice on it, conductivity can be significantly reduced and the trains halt. I got a train down to Brighton on Friday evening and it was clearly noticeable that every time we pulled out of a station, the wheels were slipping and the train juddering.

But it would be too expensive for Network Rail to replace the system, so we have to put up with it

That's true but South Eastern say that they had a problem with snow on the overhead cables, so we're damned either way.

Perhaps we should go back to steam.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm going to send a white feather to Willie Walsh, and a donation to Unite.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

That's true but South Eastern say that they had a problem with snow on the overhead cables, so we're damned either way.

Perhaps we should go back to steam.

Or Diesel!

Also a fellow NSCer was saying that the old slam doors used to be better at "receiving" conductivity from the third rail as opposed to these other rolling stuck...

 

[Norman Potting]

From France24: sound familiar?

After Parisian snow gridlock, the blame game begins The harsh winter weather in Paris has settled down, but Prime Minister François Fillon set off a mini-storm of his own Thursday by blaming France’s national weather service for the gridlock during Wednesday’s uncommonly heavy snowfall. The severe winter weather in Paris had calmed considerably by Friday morning, but another mini-storm was already brewing.

French Prime Minister François Fillon set off a small controversy Thursday by appearing to blame France’s national weather service for the gridlock that brought the Paris area to a standstill on Wednesday during an uncommonly heavy snowfall.

Fillon, one of the more popular members of President Nicolas Sarkozy’s administration, levelled the criticism while on an official visit in Russia. He said the French meteorological organization Météo France “had not anticipated this snowy episode, or not its intensity, in any case” and as a result “the services in charge of handling snowfall were caught by surprise.”

‘Everyone is stunned’

Météo France defended itself Friday, releasing a statement in which it said: “It is still very difficult, despite constant progress in meteorological science, to predict the exact quantities that will fall and how much the snow will stick to the ground.” A spokesperson for the weather service's union, Emmanuel Celhay, was firmer in his disagreement, telling Agence France: “Everyone is stunned, rather angry, and in total incomprehension of this declaration.”

On Tuesday afternoon, the service had sent out a severe weather alert for the Paris area for the following day. But it was not the highest-level alert. The storm ended up shutting Charles de Gaulle-Roissy airport, paralysing the Paris bus network and closing down the Eiffel Tower for a day. Many people were forced to forgo the warmth of their own beds, spending the night in airports, on the road or even at the workplace while waiting for the weather to clear up.

The government has found itself on the defensive since the storm, as drivers reported complaints that there had not been enough salt put on the roads and that information and assistance had been scarce. Though Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux on Wednesday denied that the situation could be characterised as “a mess”, French Transport Minister Thierry Mariani later called a meeting for Friday to examine France’s handling of the weather.

Meanwhile, French headlines on Friday skewered Fillon for his “verbal blunder”. Certain members of the Socialist Party were even harsher. Former presidential candidate Ségolène Royal appeared on French television Friday morning to denounce the government’s response to the weather. “It wasn’t a mess that we witnessed; it was chaos,” she said, adding that the government had displayed a “mix of guilty inertia, indifference and incompetence”.

Then, targeting Fillon specifically, she declared: “What’s worse in this matter is that they are passing off the responsibility to the public services.”

Even Fillon’s own camp has been scrambling to downplay the prime minister’s swipe at the national weather service. As one government source told Agence France Presse: “François Fillon was a bit hard on Météo France. His statement went beyond what he meant to say.”

Excellent. I think we in Britain have the mentality that these things don't happen in Europe when clearly they do. Mind you I work from home 95% of the time, my sympathies to all of you who have to get out to go to work.

 

[larus]

I think this is the point. There's no point struggling against extreme weather but what we have is complete meltdown when there's a flurry of snow. My kids' school was closed in the last spell when there was about half a centimetre of snow on the ground, I remember terrific snowball fights when I went to school, the idea that such a light covering would close the school would be laughed at.

But it's not just schools. In the last snowfall, I walked to Sainsbury's as there were no buses running along Lewes Road. Yet the road was clear of snow and ice as it had snow ploughs on it (two passed me as I walking) and cars and lorries were driving OK. And, of course, Sainsbury's was open.

Yes, if there's half a metre of snow and temperatures below - 10 but a small fall and - 3 or - 4 is not really exceptional in a UK winter but we seem to act as if we're stuck in Stalingrad with the German's strafing us.

One major thing which has changed is the mentality towards insurance claims. If people have an accident, they want to claim. SOMEONE must be to blame; THEY didn't do their job. THEY didn't tell us the risk. THEY didn't grit properly.

How many of the 'moaners' on here have bought snow-tyres? Why not?; because it's not worth it. But they still want businesses/councils to invest billions into buying equipment which MAY get used in the odd cold winter. Few years back I seriously thought that my kids wouldn't see decent snowfall in this country again, but the councils should be prepared 'just in case'.

People have to accept a degree of personal responsibility for their own lives and understand that somethings are beyond control. All we can expect of councils/companies is to rectify the situation as soon as is practicle.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Or Diesel!

Also a fellow NSCer was saying that the old slam doors used to be better at "receiving" conductivity from the third rail as opposed to these other rolling stuck...

I've done the commute for 22 years and hated the slam-doors. I honestly can't remember if they were better or not, I can't remember too many occassions when we had much snow back in those days. But then, the overeall service was much worse then, so maybe lost days due to snow were lost in with the others. At least now I have the chance to work at home.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't think we can complain too much about the weather. We're fortunate we're in a temperate zone with few extremes. How the hell the Norwegians or Spanish get any work done I'll never know.

 

[pasty]

Wherever possible, invest in technology to enable people to work from home more. I have to provide 24 hour on call and because of that I have full access to everything I need from home. When the weather is really bad, I simply don't even bother leaving the house, just work from home, especially as there is almost nothing I can do in the office that I can't do at home.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've done the commute for 22 years and hated the slam-doors. I honestly can't remember if they were better or not, I can't remember too many occassions when we had much snow back in those days. But then, the overeall service was much worse then, so maybe lost days due to snow were lost in with the others. At least now I have the chance to work at home.

You've commuted from Brighton to London for 22 years? Jesus.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

More than a 100 planes stranded at Tegel airport..."

Probably a 100 stranded BA planes clogging up Tegel.