Simon Hughes

[Pavilionaire]

Is it a Big Question -- for whom? And why?
Chris Smith, Peter Mandelson, Nick Brown and Alan Duncan have all achieved and held high office while being openly gay. It's this unrealistic demand for our politicians to be supposedly squeaky-clean -- i.e. totally unlike the people that vote for them- that puts dangerous deadheads like George W Bush in charge of a country. You'd hope that at least a Brighton message board would be more enlightened...

Read my posting, I said PARTY LEADER, i.e. a man who stands to be PRIME MINISTER.

I think it's fine for a backbencher or cabinet minister to be gay, but the Top Man - I'm not so sure.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

I think it's fine for a backbencher or cabinet minister to be gay, but the Top Man - I'm not so sure.

Why? Be honest. What difference does it make?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I have an acquaintance who sums it up as follows:

"I would never vote for a shit shoveller".

He has a lesbian daughter (that, apparently is OK), but admits that if his son was gay, he would batter him out of the house and never speak to him again!

Would people be so anti if they were uncovering lesbians in the political parties? Would it matter then?

Rather than being bothered about whether someone pots pink or brown, we should be more concerned about their trustworthiness - both of these have lied to the public, for whatever reason, and that should be the main drive for deciding if they should ever hold public office!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Because he / she wouldn't be taken seriously by the rest of the world and that would affect Britain's influence.

Not every country is as tolerant as us.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Because he / she wouldn't be taken seriously by the rest of the world and that would affect Britain's influence.

Not every country is as tolerant as us.

But some countries are more tolerant! Should we not have a black leader because some countries might not like that either?

We don't elect a leader based on what some third world country might think about us!

 

[Pavilionaire]

What would Russia / China / Japan / USA really think about dealing with a homosexual, not to mention the Middle East? Get real.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

What would Russia / China / Japan / USA really think about dealing with a homosexual, not to mention the Middle East? Get real.

They dealt with John Major, who was shagging a cabinet member. Was that OK then? Do we need a virile, thrusting macho man as PM?

Would the USA let a Muslim become POTUSA? But they have to deal with them, the same as they deal with Communists. Don't recall Russia declaring "shit, we'd better find a capitalist to be in charge, the Yanks won't want to deal with us otherwise."

 

[Pavilionaire]

Do you really think Major having an affair that wasn't even known until after he left office is anywhere near comparable with a man having an openly gay relationship with another man?

 

[clapham_gull]

A bigger question maybe whether it is right for a gay MP to win a party leadership contest, when he only got to be an MP in the first place by conducting a virulent anti-gay campaign against his main opponent?

http://85.234.132.19/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66798

Without passing comment on either of them, didn't Tatchell deny he was gay throughout the campaign also ? I can't remember.

Tatchells been quite clever here. I understand this issue arose again because he released the information recently that liberals had admitted to him that the campaign was down to them.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Do you really think Major having an affair that wasn't even known until after he left office is anywhere near comparable with a man having an openly gay relationship with another man?

Nope. Dead right. Keep the gays in the closet. Don't let them come out and work in public office, no-one will accept them, no-one should take the lead. Before you know it, they will all be looking at your arse and fancying you. They might want to become judges, or work in schools, and it's a simple step from being a queer to being a paedo, isn't it? Everyone knows that being gay stops your normal thought processes and renders you a simpleton who is the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

We should never have let the bloody blacks off the boats, and we should have stopped sending them to schools as well. Now look at what it's like - educated, they expect a place in society. You watch - one of them might want to take a place in Parliament - how on earth are other countries going to deal with blacks in power? They might have open relationships with white girls!

That's blacks and gays that we should keep in the current places - anyone else that we should subjugate just in case other countries don't like it?

If you hound them hard enough, they will disappear. You can explain this to Mrs Fashanu, perhaps?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Without passing comment on either of them, didn't Tatchell deny he was gay throughout the campaign also ? I can't remember.

Tatchells been quite clever here. I understand this issue arose again because he released the information recently that liberals had admitted to him that the campaign was down to them.

Tatchell was out well before that! A quick Google will give you the facts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/225687.stm)

Tatchell is good at using the media for his purposes, and whilst he has been (literally) a pain in the arse, he has brought some good issues to the surface (Mugabe. etc) although Out!Rage was over the top and a mistake.

 

[Napper]

typical over reaction and dedication to defend the PC way

The reason it is not acceptable is because a large per centage of the country do not accept homo-sexuals. I know all seems fluffy and nice on NSC but these are the plain facts.
I know several people who would def not vote for someone if they were gay , so if this is reflective of the whole country , thats a lot of votes lost !

 

[Dandyman]

Nope. Dead right. Keep the gays in the closet. Don't let them come out and work in public office, no-one will accept them, no-one should take the lead. Before you know it, they will all be looking at your arse and fancying you. They might want to become judges, or work in schools, and it's a simple step from being a queer to being a paedo, isn't it? Everyone knows that being gay stops your normal thought processes and renders you a simpleton who is the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

We should never have let the bloody blacks off the boats, and we should have stopped sending them to schools as well. Now look at what it's like - educated, they expect a place in society. You watch - one of them might want to take a place in Parliament - how on earth are other countries going to deal with blacks in power? They might have open relationships with white girls!

That's blacks and gays that we should keep in the current places - anyone else that we should subjugate just in case other countries don't like it?

If you hound them hard enough, they will disappear. You can explain this to Mrs Fashanu, perhaps?

Excellent.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

typical over reaction and dedication to defend the PC way

The reason it is not acceptable is because a large per centage of the country do not accept homo-sexuals. I know all seems fluffy and nice on NSC but these are the plain facts.
I know several people who would def not vote for someone if they were gay , so if this is reflective of the whole country , thats a lot of votes lost !

That's alright then. Keep things as they are.

And I wouldn't class myself as PC by any stretch of the imagination, I just like making the right wing mouthpieces work for their right to post on here. If you blindly accept what they say, then it encourages them to post unresearched, biased and unsubstantiated "facts". Back up the assertions, and then you can come to meaningful conclusions.

Extrapolating "several people" into "the whole country" is not particularly scientific, but well done for trying. If I respond that I know "several people" who would actively vote for lesbians, does that mean that the whole country would also follow the same route (I mean, most of the posters on here would vote for lesbians if they came with free pictures!)

Why should lesbians be OK, but not gays (by which people seem to mean gay men)? How many of the anti-gay lobby in here really believe that if they shower with a gay man, they are going to get their arses looked at, or maybe even sexually assaulted? Most gays wouldn't look twice at the sort of people who seem to believe they are homosexual magnets!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Tolerance and openness is something that evolves over time. You cannot force it upon people.

Ask anyone over 60 if it's OK to have a gay P.M and a majority would say no, ask those under 25 and most would probably say yes.

 

[clapham_gull]

Tatchell was out well before that! A quick Google will give you the facts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/225687.stm)

Tatchell is good at using the media for his purposes, and whilst he has been (literally) a pain in the arse, he has brought some good issues to the surface (Mugabe. etc) although Out!Rage was over the top and a mistake.

Got a lot of time for the man.

 

[Juan Albion]

Which part of running the country is affected by what one does in bed?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Tolerance and openness is something that evolves over time. You cannot force it upon people.

Ask anyone over 60 if it's OK to have a gay P.M and a majority would say no, ask those under 25 and most would probably say yes.

Again, it's a little "grasping" to offer this as facts, it depends on which groups of over 60s you know. I daresay that some of these over 60s would have never expected to see a female PM (and ignoring the usual debate, at least she broke a glass ceiling there).

But, if the start is not made, then the evolution into new thinking won't happen. Simply shutting down an opinion based on current prejudice is not beneficial - the opinions need to be tested. I don't think, for one minute, that the way ahead is to have ministers who are married to keep face, or because that is what was expected of them "in those days" - Oaten needed the courage of his convictions, and Hughes should have been brave enough to come out before being prodded out of the closet by a potential news story about gay sex lines. Tatchell, outspoken and obnoxious as he is, is at least open about this. Derek from Big Brother was open, but was seen as a comedy, caricatured black homosexual (only needed one leg missing to be a complete punchline). Because people are gay, it does not stop them being able to represent the majority, sometimes whether the majority like it or not!

 

[Titanic]

Which part of running the country is affected by what one does in bed?

None - but it is the deception and lies that go with it that people worry about.

 

[Napper]

That's alright then. Keep things as they are.

And I wouldn't class myself as PC by any stretch of the imagination, I just like making the right wing mouthpieces work for their right to post on here. If you blindly accept what they say, then it encourages them to post unresearched, biased and unsubstantiated "facts". Back up the assertions, and then you can come to meaningful conclusions.

Extrapolating "several people" into "the whole country" is not particularly scientific, but well done for trying. If I respond that I know "several people" who would actively vote for lesbians, does that mean that the whole country would also follow the same route (I mean, most of the posters on here would vote for lesbians if they came with free pictures!)

Why should lesbians be OK, but not gays (by which people seem to mean gay men)? How many of the anti-gay lobby in here really believe that if they shower with a gay man, they are going to get their arses looked at, or maybe even sexually assaulted? Most gays wouldn't look twice at the sort of people who seem to believe they are homosexual magnets!

im just saying I know a broad range of people manual workers , white collar workers even a few that don't work + male and female. Although not completely conclusive I believe it does give an indication of a "general" attitude or opinion to something. This has been backed up when I've used this theory before only to be proved when the issue is then on a national subject. You can say all you like but this is just the way it is. Well done and many of your points are valid , but because you believe something with a passion doesn't mean everyone (other than this board ) is behind you ooh er