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[dwayne]

Realistic if unispiring aspiration and I make no apology for the dull thread following 5 or 6 dull performances from England, it's kind of in keeping don't you think? Wish I could get excited about next summers prospects

Ok against the likes of Austria, N.Ireland and a few meaningless friendlies you are going to get dull performances.

Bottom line is that you rarely get dull games in the tournament, remember Euro 2004 we were brilliant to watch, and every game meant something

who cares though really, England is just a supplement to the albion and the tournament is about 10 bloody months away anything could happen in that time! Falmer might even be underway

 

[y2dave]

While he sticks at a rigid 4-4-2 formation playing the big name players we have no chance, we will get beaten against a top side.

Being constructive I would like to see 3-5-2 as that would mean we can finally solve the left side problem with Ashley Cole at wing back while playing a dedicated holding player in midfield. I'd give Carrick, King and Murphy a chance to do this. Neither Gerrard or Lampard seem to want to stay back and thats a big problem. Darren Bent should be groomed as a back up to Owen and Rooney, he is by far the best suited to international football and way ahead of Defoe and Crouch, Vassell.

And please drop Alan Smith and P.Neville from the squad.

 

[Yoda]

Yes. As I've already said this morning, Germany got to the final of the last World Cup playing SHIT. Why can't we?

 

[Icy Gull]

Yes. As I've already said this morning, Germany got to the final of the last World Cup playing SHIT. Why can't we?

You'd like to be a fan of a team that was that embarrasing

 

[Yoda]

You'd like to be a fan of a team that was that embarrasing

As long as we get to the Final I don't care how we play. I'd rather take that than play fancy football and going out in the first round. It's the results that matter.

 

[silky1]

Yes. As I've already said this morning, Germany got to the final of the last World Cup playing SHIT. Why can't we?

Because are players are English and not German. The Germans have a knack of rising to the occassion and getting through. I don't doubt we can also rise to the occassion against the big sides when it matters, but we always fail to go through. It is the reason Germany have won more, and gone further in nearly every world cup the two nations have competed in.

Too many England fans seem to forget how crap we are. We were carp in Portugal, mediocre in Japan, terrible in Belgium/Holland, average in France.

By all means get excited about going to a great footballing event such as the world cup, expect to see some great exciting footbal (just don't expect much of it from England), and certainly don't expect England to win.

 

[Icy Gull]

As long as we get to the Final I don't care how we play. I'd rather take that than play fancy football and going out in the first round. It's the results that matter.

I think you are in the Uncle Buck camp of football. Much rather see a stylish and exciting early or late exit myself than a grinding out of results. The result isn't everything to me which is probably not a winner's attitude but as we're not going to win anyway......

 

[Uncle Buck]

Because are players are English and not German. The Germans have a knack of rising to the occassion and getting through. I don't doubt we can also rise to the occassion against the big sides when it matters, but we always fail to go through. It is the reason Germany have won more, and gone further in nearly every world cup the two nations have competed in.

Too many England fans seem to forget how crap we are. We were carp in Portugal, mediocre in Japan, terrible in Belgium/Holland, average in France.

By all means get excited about going to a great footballing event such as the world cup, expect to see some great exciting footbal (just don't expect much of it from England), and certainly don't expect England to win.

Err we were probably other than the Portugal game, the most exciting team to watch in Portugal. The problem was once Rooney was off injured we looked short of ideas.

Mediocre in Japan, hmm rewriting history a bit. We beat Argentina for the first time in gawd knows how long, thrashed Denmark and bottled it against Brazil.

I guess it is the old thing, people want the Swede out so manipulate the facts to suit your own ends.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think our chance of winning the World Cup is not good.

Look at the teams who have won the last few major tournaments - they have all been supremely organised and the talent fully harnessed.

If England are to win then the manager has to organise them properly. Switching formations and throwing people into unfamiliar roles in key matches is a sign of poor preparation.

Let's just say, for arguments sake, Sven gets us organised. Then yes, we will be a difficult team to beat. This will get us back to where we were 4 years ago.

Even having done this work he will then have to motivate and focus his key players like Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney so they will all produce in every big game - this will be necessary if we are to win. At present perhaps only Rooney is playing anywhere near his club form.

It is this second aspect that worries me. Sven didn't get anywhere near the form from Scholes he is capable of, and so it is proving with Lampard and Gerrard. That is, in my opinion, why we do not have a realistic chance of winning the World Cup under Sven.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I think you are in the Uncle Buck camp of football. Much rather see a stylish and exciting early or late exit myself than a grinding out of results. The result isn't everything to me which is probably not a winner's attitude but as we're not going to win anyway......

If you want to see stylish football, why on earth do you follow the Albion under McGhee.

The last 2 seasons have all been about grinding results out.

 

[dwayne]

If you want to see stylish football, why on earth do you follow the Albion under McGhee.

The last 2 seasons have all been about grinding results out.

EXACTLY

and it's the same with results all these glory hunter moaners like Easy 10 are fine with slagging off a winning England, but don't seem overly bothered with an albion team that have won once in about 7 months!!

 

[Uncle Buck]

It is this second aspect that worries me. Sven didn't get anywhere near the form from Scholes he is capable of, and so it is proving with Lampard and Gerrard. That is, in my opinion, why we do not have a realistic chance of winning the World Cup under Sven.

The Scholes argument is a difficult one, simply because for the last couple of years he was generally chucked out on the left, rather than tucking in behind the front 2, as Lampard rightly or wrongly took that role.

Scholes natural ability to an extent worked against him as he had to play out wide, which was not his best position.

 

[Icy Gull]

If you want to see stylish football, why on earth do you follow the Albion under McGhee.

The last 2 seasons have all been about grinding results out.

Exactly, Albion don't have the riches to do anything different although that is slowly changing. I have seen exciting Albion teams and I'm hopefull of seeing them again. When my national side are capable of so much more it just pisses me off to see the negative dull shit we are served up with one game every 2 years that excites me, although we always lose that game as well

 

[Uncle Buck]

Exactly, Albion don't have the riches to do anything different although that is slowly changing. I have seen exciting Albion teams and I'm hopefull of seeing them again. When my national side are capable of so much more it just pisses me off to see the negative dull shit we are served up with one game every 2 years that excites me, although we always lose that game as well

But with both England the Albion it comes back to getting results and if that is about being cautious then so be it. You win things by getting the results, how you achieve that result is irrelevant. Yes we all want to see brilliant football, but a 1-0 win is worth more than a 5-4 defeat and plaudits for going out with style.

 

[Icy Gull]

EXACTLY

and it's the same with results all these glory hunter moaners like Easy 10 are fine with slagging off a winning England, but don't seem overly bothered with an albion team that have won once in about 7 months!!

The Albion are punching way above their weight, England way below it. Simple really

 

[Pavilionaire]

The Scholes argument is a difficult one, simply because for the last couple of years he was generally chucked out on the left, rather than tucking in behind the front 2, as Lampard rightly or wrongly took that role.

Scholes natural ability to an extent worked against him as he had to play out wide, which was not his best position.

UB, you are trying to rewrite history here.

The fact is that Scholes played most of his football under Sven in a central midfield role but succumbed to the same problem now affecting Gerrard and Lampard, i.e. letting their "defensive duties" prevent them from getting forward as they do for their clubs.

Has the Swede learned nothing in the last 4 years? Any other decent manager would put a holding midfielder behind them to do the donkey work and let them get forward unfettered.

The best England have played in a big tournament against a decent team in recent years is when we had Nicky Butt performing this role.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The Albion are punching way above their weight, England way below it. Simple really

England punching below their weight. So qualifying for the World Cup, which was what they had to do is failing?

 

[Easy 10]

EXACTLY

and it's the same with results all these glory hunter moaners like Easy 10 are fine with slagging off a winning England, but don't seem overly bothered with an albion team that have won once in about 7 months!!

Eriksson does not have to operate under the crippling constraints we have at the Albion, so it just doesn't stand up to comparison.

Pav makes a good point about Paul Scholes. Here we had an absolute jewel of a player for England, who got so pissed off with being f***ed about by Eriksson playing him here, there and everywhere (usually down the bloody left) that he decided to chuck the towel in and give up on International football. Part of it was probably made because of the (totally unfustified) stick he was getting in the media for not scoring for x number of games, but Eriksson never deployed him properly or found a role for him - and this was prior to the emergence of Puggsley.

A side effect of Erikssons consistant failure to organise and harness the talent he has at his disposal into an effective unit is that we've sadly lost a player of Scholes's calibre from the England team.

 

[dwayne]

England punching below their weight. So qualifying for the World Cup, which was what they had to do is failing?

Precisely.


....and with regards to the albion, we are punching at the same weight we should be I believe. Ok we have meagre resources but we have a good enough squad to finish above the bottom 3

 

[Uncle Buck]

UB, you are trying to rewrite history here.

The fact is that Scholes played most of his football under Sven in a central midfield role but succumbed to the same problem now affecting Gerrard and Lampard, i.e. letting their "defensive duties" prevent them from getting forward as they do for their clubs.

Has the Swede learned nothing in the last 4 years? Any other decent manager would put a holding midfielder behind them to do the donkey work and let them get forward unfettered.

The best England have played in a big tournament against a decent team in recent years is when we had Nicky Butt performing this role.

When Butt played they role we looked good, but then Sven dropped him for Lampard and that brings us to the current issue of a unbalanced midfield.

In Euro 2004 Scholes was shoved out wide and he did not look comfortable there.