[Finance] Self employed to receive 80% of income from the Gov’t too

[Questions]

It’s no great shakes being self employed. I can never claim unemployment benefit if my wife works 16 hours ( yeehaw) . No holiday, no sick pay.
I’m only self employed because I’m unemployable......... very few benefits to be honest other than I dont feel like I have to punch someone everyday like I did when I was employed

 

[drew]

I've read this a couple of times, not really sure what you mean? Success purely in financial terms, or the satisfaction of being you're own boss?

Could be both. If you're successful then put stuff aside for the rainy day. When you enter self employment, you should be aware that you give up the benefits of some employment, eg, medical cover, holiday pay etc.

 

[trueblue]

On that last paragraph, that’s a very good definition of not being employed/not being deemed employed - commercial/financial risk of a loss. It is already one of the Badges of Trade tests, a long established one.

Yes, thanks. One of the reasons for determining I should be paid as an employee was that I apparently take no financial risk - which they have disproved in spectacular fashion. Getting the client to change their mind, however, may be more difficult. The industry norm seems to be to make blanket declarations, regardless of the truth of the matter. The tone of tonight’s Govt statement, broadly painting the self-employed as wealthy tax dodgers just showed again what we’re up against. And in the meantime, multi-national corporations that pay virtually no tax can furlough their employees, passing the cost to the taxpayer.

 

[Gazwag]

He didn’t specifically say “just National Insurance” did he?

I think you’re right. Until this month, the self employed have never had the benefit of all social security measures, I assume that they will from now on, at a NIC cost.

He didnt he said tax I think, but I assume it must be NI as income tax is no different.

Be interesting if he does let self employed get benefits

 

[LamieRobertson]

I thought the other day that you’re too switched on to use an accountant, genuinely!

Why thank you....in the end i just took the easy route ...at least its a deductible expense and nice to have them between me and HMRC

In a few years as turnover drops i will grab the responsibility back

 

[Bold Seagull]

Could be both. If you're successful then put stuff aside for the rainy day. When you enter self employment, you should be aware that you give up the benefits of some employment, eg, medical cover, holiday pay etc.

I honestly don't know what we're discussing or point you're trying to make now without going back to read your other comments.

 

[drew]

But you cannot compare the two like that

Look at it this way, you have turnover of £50k, your costs are £20k your profit to service your mortgage, your season ticket, your living costs is £30k you will be entitled to 80% of that from the government

Me as an employee has a salary of £30k to do the same thing of that I would get 80% from the government

Your profit of course then suffers tax and NI which you pay in July and Jan each year

I suffer tax and NI at source

We end up exactly the same.

Your profit after tax and NI is say 25,000


My salary after tax and NI is say 25,000

We both have £25,000 for our personal expenditure

The only difference (for now!!) is I pay NI at 12% you pay 9%

You can compare the two. Driving instructor has turnover of £30k and someone who is salaried at £30k. Neither are working. The latter gets £26,400. The driving instructor has to deduct costs from the £30k, say £10k leaving £20k profit, so they get £16k. You and Westander are starting your calculations at the end point rather than the starting point which is the income.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes, thanks. One of the reasons for determining I should be paid as an employee was that I apparently take no financial risk - which they have disproved in spectacular fashion. Getting the client to change their mind, however, may be more difficult. The industry norm seems to be to make blanket declarations, regardless of the truth of the matter. The tone of tonight’s Govt statement, broadly painting the self-employed as wealthy tax dodgers just showed again what we’re up against. And in the meantime, multi-national corporations that pay virtually no tax can furlough their employees, passing the cost to the taxpayer.

Not before NSC!!

 

[LamieRobertson]

Its says you have to apply for this ‘grant’ ....awaits the detail

 

[drew]

I honestly don't know what we're discussing or point you're trying to make now without going back to read your other comments.

Sorry, just making the point that when you go self employed from a salaried position, you must know you will lose some benefits/employment rights but the other side of the coin is you are in charge and if your business does well you reap those benefits rather than share them.

To an extent, it's personal choice. I left a salaried job in London and am now self employed but I wouldn't ordinarily expect the Government to cover my sick pay, holiday pay etc.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Sorry, just making the point that when you go self employed from a salaried position, you must know you will lose some benefits/employment rights but the other side of the coin is you are in charge and if your business does well you reap those benefits rather than share them.

I’ve never shared my salary ....hang on I got married and had two kids ...I take that back

 

[Weststander]

You can compare the two. Driving instructor has turnover of £30k and someone who is salaried at £30k. Neither are working. The latter gets £26,400. The driving instructor has to deduct costs from the £30k, say £10k leaving £20k profit, so they get £16k. You and Westander are starting your calculations at the end point rather than the starting point which is the income.

I’ve done my best, I’m out, a clever accountant or tax expert will have take this case on.

One last point, again, the government have no intention in covering your fixed and variable costs (match your turnover). Not even the biggest adversary of the government says they should. Matching 80% of your net profit (your taxable income) in hard cash is an incredible offer.

 

[Weststander]

He didnt he said tax I think, but I assume it must be NI as income tax is no different.

Be interesting if he does let self employed get benefits

My guess is they will, paying the same NIC as the employed, giving entitlement to all state benefits.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I’ve done my best, I’m out, a clever accountant or tax expert will have take this case on.

One last point, again, the government have no intention in covering your fixed and variable costs (match your turnover). Not even the biggest adversary of the government says they should. Matching 80% of your net profit (your taxable income) in hard cash is an incredible offer.

Abso bloody lutely.

Why on earth would you subsidise turnover?

Watching the BBC News atm and all they doing is criticising it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sorry, just making the point that when you go self employed from a salaried position, you must know you will lose some benefits/employment rights but the other side of the coin is you are in charge and if your business does well you reap those benefits rather than share them.

To an extent, it's personal choice. I left a salaried job in London and am now self employed but I wouldn't ordinarily expect the Government to cover my sick pay, holiday pay etc.

I agree, but I think the responsibility of your own employment does rightly come with tax incentives, and rightly those who are successful at it go onto be employment creators.

 

[Weststander]

Abso bloody lutely.

Why on earth would you subsidise turnover?

Watching the BBC News atm and all they doing is criticising it.

Classic BBC, tens of millions are now covered in two waves of measures, and within minutes the BBC is spending 90% of their time talking about the ever shrinking number not getting help (although they do through Universal Credit). They spent a week incorrectly slagging off the government for not helping the self employed, as a policy for a wide array of circumstances was formulated, with vital checks and balances to prevent fraud.

 

[Gazwag]

You can compare the two. Driving instructor has turnover of £30k and someone who is salaried at £30k. Neither are working. The latter gets £26,400. The driving instructor has to deduct costs from the £30k, say £10k leaving £20k profit, so they get £16k. You and Westander are starting your calculations at the end point rather than the starting point which is the income.

Sorry but comparing self employed to employed is like comparing football to boxing, both sports but that's where the similarity ends, I'm going to bed, got to work at home for 7.5 hours again tomorrow

 

[LlcoolJ]

Good to see the signalling on levelling up the tax burden in future, in a similar vein of going for the Facebook,, Amazon and other equivalents

Try being self employed. You're equating someone scraping a living and paying their fair share of tax........ to Amazon?

You are an Idiot.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I've read this a couple of times, not really sure what you mean? Success purely in financial terms, or the satisfaction of being you're own boss?

I've read it a couple of times too. I think it's just ignorance. I'd say stupidity but I'm trying to stay nice..... so ignorance.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Classic BBC, tens of millions are now covered in two waves of measures, and within minutes the BBC is spending 90% of their time talking about the ever shrinking number not getting help (although they do through Universal Credit). They spent a week incorrectly slagging off the government for not helping the self employed, as a policy for a wide array of circumstances was formulated, with vital checks and balances to prevent fraud.

It is all a pile of shite though tbf.

Immediate universal income (taxable) would have made a lot more sense.

By June/July (I still bet it's July before anyone actually gets any money) millions will be up shit creek.